I think the short answer is that the team during his second stint was infinitely more competent than the one he was traded to in his first stint.
skimcpip
Expectations
Snapesunusedshampoo
We were a terribly built team trying to use a complicated antiquated system with a bunch of player who were on expiring contracts so nobody bought in.
Jusuf_Nurkic
Second stint was also only half a season where he shot by far a career best from 3. It was honestly a bit of a fluke, loved what he did for us that year and it was so huge, but no way he would’ve kept it up for a full season or multiple years
BatCaveGaming
Expectations to me. NY was expected to compete at a high level and the leadership was terrible. The second the Knicks were rebuilding and exceeded expectations
Knicks free agent signings that year. all you need to know
bballj228
He called the Knicks a super team
Fvckyourdreams
Lofty expectations as a Starter and a 2nd Star. KP was pretty much the 2nd Star but him and Rose were close that Year. Rose actually had a great Year, the Noah Contract and bad supporting cast didn’t help. If we kept JR, Shump, and Tyson till then it could’ve been something.
chowbox617
Expectations and role
i-piss-excellence32
Phil Jackson trading Tyson chandler, jr and shump for nothing ruined the team.
We had a terrible roster
xxjohnnyrocketzxx
We started off decently and had playoff expectations, but I remember alot of players and staff complaining about phil forcing the triangle on them
We wouldn’t have won, but we wouldve been better
In the second stint, it was also supposed to be a tank year, so Thibs and Randle way surpassed expectations, while DRose gave us that extra push to make 4th seed when he was considered washed. Alot of fans were frustrated with Elfrid too, so ANY decent PG play was going to be loved.
The expectations and lack of good PG play were what made the following season feel really crappy when Kemba came and fell off so quickly
NRank
Running the triangle and roster construction were also factors. Having his buddy Jaokim Noah shit the bed was also far from ideal
ZMR33
The first stint:
A lot of us foolishly thought Rose could still rediscover his pre-ACL tear self, and that we could be really good with him and Noah coming in. Sadly, we were bad for many, many reasons. Jackson’s a large reason for that. Didn’t help that Rose was probably at his mental lowest when we got him.
The second stint:
Lower expectations, and a competent front office and coaching staff helps a ton.
ShawshankException
Because we had Steve “Knicks Terrorist” Mills and the shambling corpse of Phil Jackson making basketball decisions, with Jeff Hornacek at the helm of the team
isasweetpotato
From a player standpoint, along with everything else said, his first stint he seemed to be trying to regain his stardom to some degree and he was a shoot-first pg that didn’t necessarily raise the level of his teammates, he didn’t really add any value off ball which you need around a guy like Melo.
His second stint he had settled into a role off the bench and embraced being more of a floor general that could spot up and attack a scrambled defense just as well as run the pick and roll. His assist percentage went up, his 3 point shot was a weapon, and he didn’t let his ego run the show as much.
mydrumluck
Phil Jackson
kbocker_
Off the court distractions aka some chick tried to extort money out of him for running a train on dem hoes
ricky_hammers
I think he was slightly dissatisfied with his role, and his marquee name kind of skewed expectations for fans.
Hot-Turnover4883
He didn’t defend or pass
E-Miles
Phil Jackson (coaching + team construction)
Court Case
Fishmike52
Julius Randle is a good player and shares the ball.
Schubes17
A lot of people are mentioning expectations, which was definitely a factor, but another key thing was the defensive approach. Rose was a bad defender and our team defense did nothing to try and offset that. Compare that with Thibs, a defensive mastermind, who knows how to craft a plan that can hide weaknesses and maximize strengths.
No_Performer_9845
There were vids and stories about how he practically had a crying meltdown when he found out it was the Knicks he got traded to. Not his fault, but we also broke up the best rim defense in the league to get him and the Original Joke Noah. But I will not stand for anyone saying we wasted Damyean Dotson.
Phil Jackson, the greatest waste of a million dollars a month in the history of the solar system.
Second stint, who wouldn’t want to come here to get away from Detroit?
nazrmo78
In the first stint, he did the same things, but it felt more like he still thought he was a star. He’s never been the best facilitator for others, but he could score, and when we brought him in, we had a certain way we played, and he sortve just git in the way of that. The second time, he did the same thing except as a 6th or 7th man he had the greenlight to do it, and it felt more inoactful. It WAS more impactful.
SanctorumAeternam
I don’t think he was in the right headspace during the first stint – he cried when he found out about the trade, it was a contract year, high expectations but things weren’t going well, and he admitted getting to a point where he just didn’t want to play basketball anymore.
polyester57
Tom Thibodeau
smileyforall220
Phil Jackson
VocationFumes
They we’re a lot worse with his first stint, the team around him was complete ass
the 2nd time he didn’t need to do as much so things just worked a lot better
Specialist-Act7304
We are the new super team- the Knicks finally figured out, what other teams couldn’t. By bringing the Villanova 4 together, they made a genius move- and that’s rare with Dolan and crew. We have the best coach in the league- he just has to give the guys a rest, from now and then. As for Derrick Rose, who was a great player- the team sucked around him- that’s always the case. Dolan forever jinxed this team- when he traded Ewing. This season will not be easy, not really worried about Boston, they had the easiest run ever- I’m worried about Philly. That team is stacked & if Embiid doesn’t get hurt- they will face the Knicks in the eastern conference finals. As for Phil- he was shit- Isaiah was shit and Dolan has always been shit.
blkschizo
I know it’s been said a few times, but fuck Phil Jackson. He tried to bury this franchise deeper than it already was
datatadata
Phil Jackson and Jeff Hornacek
HokageEzio
He was brought in to be the #3 player, and his fanboys were mega annoying thinking he still had it in him after Chicago and that it was all the Knicks’ fault.
By the time he got there the 2nd time it was understood where he was in his career.
mattr1198
Expectations and the FO. Rose still had the allure of a big name star given he was only a few years removed from his MVP season, even if he wasn’t that same player. Furthermore, he was not remotely a fit with our trash ass 2016-17 roster, given Steve Mills and Phil Jackson didn’t seem to give a crap about that.
Zeus0886
Phil Jackson
Hallal_Dakis
First stint we had higher expectations that we failed to meet and we found out he was a rapist right before the season started.
Second stint we had low expectations and then he was the best player in the playoffs and we already knew he was a rapist.
LGSM58
Expectations changed
itsahmemario
Miscast role perhaps.
HardOakleyFoul
he was trying to hard to prove to himself that he was still “Derrick MVP Rose” and ended up having an awful year. He was taking really bad shots and was constantly looking off KP. It was just a bad time for him.
39 Comments
phil jackson. nothing less, nothing more.
I think the short answer is that the team during his second stint was infinitely more competent than the one he was traded to in his first stint.
Expectations
We were a terribly built team trying to use a complicated antiquated system with a bunch of player who were on expiring contracts so nobody bought in.
Second stint was also only half a season where he shot by far a career best from 3. It was honestly a bit of a fluke, loved what he did for us that year and it was so huge, but no way he would’ve kept it up for a full season or multiple years
Expectations to me. NY was expected to compete at a high level and the leadership was terrible. The second the Knicks were rebuilding and exceeded expectations
https://preview.redd.it/e46b72k1m7rd1.png?width=1142&format=png&auto=webp&s=2671e9b5006ce21708fe95e2f80f181ab60bb6f4
Knicks free agent signings that year. all you need to know
He called the Knicks a super team
Lofty expectations as a Starter and a 2nd Star. KP was pretty much the 2nd Star but him and Rose were close that Year. Rose actually had a great Year, the Noah Contract and bad supporting cast didn’t help. If we kept JR, Shump, and Tyson till then it could’ve been something.
Expectations and role
Phil Jackson trading Tyson chandler, jr and shump for nothing ruined the team.
We had a terrible roster
We started off decently and had playoff expectations, but I remember alot of players and staff complaining about phil forcing the triangle on them
We wouldn’t have won, but we wouldve been better
In the second stint, it was also supposed to be a tank year, so Thibs and Randle way surpassed expectations, while DRose gave us that extra push to make 4th seed when he was considered washed. Alot of fans were frustrated with Elfrid too, so ANY decent PG play was going to be loved.
The expectations and lack of good PG play were what made the following season feel really crappy when Kemba came and fell off so quickly
Running the triangle and roster construction were also factors. Having his buddy Jaokim Noah shit the bed was also far from ideal
The first stint:
A lot of us foolishly thought Rose could still rediscover his pre-ACL tear self, and that we could be really good with him and Noah coming in. Sadly, we were bad for many, many reasons. Jackson’s a large reason for that. Didn’t help that Rose was probably at his mental lowest when we got him.
The second stint:
Lower expectations, and a competent front office and coaching staff helps a ton.
Because we had Steve “Knicks Terrorist” Mills and the shambling corpse of Phil Jackson making basketball decisions, with Jeff Hornacek at the helm of the team
From a player standpoint, along with everything else said, his first stint he seemed to be trying to regain his stardom to some degree and he was a shoot-first pg that didn’t necessarily raise the level of his teammates, he didn’t really add any value off ball which you need around a guy like Melo.
His second stint he had settled into a role off the bench and embraced being more of a floor general that could spot up and attack a scrambled defense just as well as run the pick and roll. His assist percentage went up, his 3 point shot was a weapon, and he didn’t let his ego run the show as much.
Phil Jackson
Off the court distractions aka some chick tried to extort money out of him for running a train on dem hoes
I think he was slightly dissatisfied with his role, and his marquee name kind of skewed expectations for fans.
He didn’t defend or pass
Phil Jackson (coaching + team construction)
Court Case
Julius Randle is a good player and shares the ball.
A lot of people are mentioning expectations, which was definitely a factor, but another key thing was the defensive approach. Rose was a bad defender and our team defense did nothing to try and offset that. Compare that with Thibs, a defensive mastermind, who knows how to craft a plan that can hide weaknesses and maximize strengths.
There were vids and stories about how he practically had a crying meltdown when he found out it was the Knicks he got traded to. Not his fault, but we also broke up the best rim defense in the league to get him and the Original Joke Noah. But I will not stand for anyone saying we wasted Damyean Dotson.
Phil Jackson, the greatest waste of a million dollars a month in the history of the solar system.
Second stint, who wouldn’t want to come here to get away from Detroit?
In the first stint, he did the same things, but it felt more like he still thought he was a star. He’s never been the best facilitator for others, but he could score, and when we brought him in, we had a certain way we played, and he sortve just git in the way of that. The second time, he did the same thing except as a 6th or 7th man he had the greenlight to do it, and it felt more inoactful. It WAS more impactful.
I don’t think he was in the right headspace during the first stint – he cried when he found out about the trade, it was a contract year, high expectations but things weren’t going well, and he admitted getting to a point where he just didn’t want to play basketball anymore.
Tom Thibodeau
Phil Jackson
They we’re a lot worse with his first stint, the team around him was complete ass
the 2nd time he didn’t need to do as much so things just worked a lot better
We are the new super team- the Knicks finally figured out, what other teams couldn’t. By bringing the Villanova 4 together, they made a genius move- and that’s rare with Dolan and crew. We have the best coach in the league- he just has to give the guys a rest, from now and then. As for Derrick Rose, who was a great player- the team sucked around him- that’s always the case. Dolan forever jinxed this team- when he traded Ewing. This season will not be easy, not really worried about Boston, they had the easiest run ever- I’m worried about Philly. That team is stacked & if Embiid doesn’t get hurt- they will face the Knicks in the eastern conference finals. As for Phil- he was shit- Isaiah was shit and Dolan has always been shit.
I know it’s been said a few times, but fuck Phil Jackson. He tried to bury this franchise deeper than it already was
Phil Jackson and Jeff Hornacek
He was brought in to be the #3 player, and his fanboys were mega annoying thinking he still had it in him after Chicago and that it was all the Knicks’ fault.
By the time he got there the 2nd time it was understood where he was in his career.
Expectations and the FO. Rose still had the allure of a big name star given he was only a few years removed from his MVP season, even if he wasn’t that same player. Furthermore, he was not remotely a fit with our trash ass 2016-17 roster, given Steve Mills and Phil Jackson didn’t seem to give a crap about that.
Phil Jackson
First stint we had higher expectations that we failed to meet and we found out he was a rapist right before the season started.
Second stint we had low expectations and then he was the best player in the playoffs and we already knew he was a rapist.
Expectations changed
Miscast role perhaps.
he was trying to hard to prove to himself that he was still “Derrick MVP Rose” and ended up having an awful year. He was taking really bad shots and was constantly looking off KP. It was just a bad time for him.