Man has never been the clear best player on a team that made the conference finals let alone win rings and people want to say he’s the goat offensive player lmfao.
ImTheBestNerd
Knee pads
RunThePnR
Ppl as always are too quick and premature with these labels.
PlantsWillKillYou
Hyping Basketball
cyb3ryung
thinking basketball definitely has a favoritism of Jokic and Luka
moons_a_skull
Im not a fan of the Nuggets overall, their roster is really flawed but Jokic is just incredible to watch and if you’re team is playing him its so incredibly nerve racking.
Nuggets need a bucket? he shoots a 3 over whoever you have on him, oh you have a 7 footer on him? Jokic gets by him in two dribbles. Somebody slightly open? Jokic finds them.
Really just Luka, and *sometimes* Curry, Lebron, and KD are like that this season where your team just feels helpless
BackloggedBones
People are extremely touchy when this topic is brought up but very cautious to actually create an argument as to why this may or may not be the case.
Especially if they haven’t actually listened to the statement being made in full, or considered it’s supporting evidence.
All this means is that there is a statistical argument that when Jokic touches the ball during a possession that it is possible, that over a certain stretch of years, that the ball will go in the net at a greater frequency than any other player in history.
Ronshol
The victim complex these fucking Jokic fans have is crazy. Dude wins back to back MVP and you still got these guys crying about how people are underrating him.
allhailbarea
The two additional things with Jokic that I am still not 100% sure of and that weren’t discussed in too much detail:
At least in volume, Jokic can’t bring up the ball and have a start to finish iso possession, using screens and decide on how to finish like perimeter guys can.
I am not sure that he won’t further lose efficiency in the playoffs, if he increases his minutes and usage in the post season even more. History so far says that he only increases his output a little and gets a little less efficient, which seems fine, but to win it all he will probably get closer to playing 36-40 min/game instead of ~34.
InevitableHearing112
Peak KD and 2018 Bron Clears and 2018 Bron isn’t even his best version.
Supreme_God_Bunny
Man’s has 2 mvps before a WCF please stop
freethrows2223
If Jokic three peats MVP and gets a ring this year, I’ll consider the argument.
nomitycs
ITT people dismissing a take from someone who understands basketball far better than them without even listening to the evidence just because they don’t like it
corbettgames
I listened to this last night so I’ll give a not-so-short TL:DR since based on the comments the vast majority haven’t listened before responding. If any of the exact numbers/details are off, give me a head’s up.
– This is largely based on the regular season. Ben places great emphasis on performance in the playoffs, and while Jokic has been very good so far in the playoffs he would like to see a few deeper run in the next few seasons to feel confident about how well he holds up.
– When Jokic is on the floor Denver has the best offense in the league regardless of who is around him. When Jokic is off the floor any combination of players on the Nuggets is an absolute failure on offence. He makes anything work.
– Jokic has a league-leading on/off of around ~+28 (with this almost entirely due to the huge difference in offence production)
– He is scoring at a rate of 27 points per 75, at +11% efficiency. This is an absolutely elite number. Embiid is also having a monster season with ~35 points per 75 on +6% efficiency, and they bring up Durant and Curry too.
– Jokic is shooting an absurd 60% from the midrange and is also one of the most effective players on drives, while having a respectable 3pt %
– Cody looked at changes in team assists per 75 when a player is on/off the floor. The idea is higher team assists suggests strong ball movement and likely better-looks for other teammates (less self-creation driven offence). For example, in 2017 (?) when LeBron was on the floor his team had 7 more assists every 75 possessions compared to when he was off. This is a similar number to other Jokic seasons, Curry seasons, some Nash seasons, etc. This season Jokic blows everything out of the water, with +11 team assists per 75.
– Essentially it boils down to Jokic has an argument as the greatest scorer in the NBA and the greatest playmaker right now. How many players can say that? They float LeBron, Oscar, but it’s a short list. He has a clear argument for being in the conversation as the most dominant regular season offensive player ever.
jjgshnimnt
Friendly reminder Jokic has never played with an all star. Only time he played with an all star caliber player was the bubble. Incredible what he’s done with just a bunch of average dudes his entire career.
youOnlyliveTw1ce
Okay let’s see how far the “offensive GOAT” goes in the playoffs since he’s qualifies for that label. Finals appearance or bust atp
Popular-Newt-1603
that team assist per 75 when on vs off i have to call out
Nuggets like hockey subs aka he plays majority his minutes with their 2nd beat playmaker..of course its going to be a huge difference
17 Comments
Man has never been the clear best player on a team that made the conference finals let alone win rings and people want to say he’s the goat offensive player lmfao.
Knee pads
Ppl as always are too quick and premature with these labels.
Hyping Basketball
thinking basketball definitely has a favoritism of Jokic and Luka
Im not a fan of the Nuggets overall, their roster is really flawed but Jokic is just incredible to watch and if you’re team is playing him its so incredibly nerve racking.
Nuggets need a bucket? he shoots a 3 over whoever you have on him, oh you have a 7 footer on him? Jokic gets by him in two dribbles. Somebody slightly open? Jokic finds them.
Really just Luka, and *sometimes* Curry, Lebron, and KD are like that this season where your team just feels helpless
People are extremely touchy when this topic is brought up but very cautious to actually create an argument as to why this may or may not be the case.
Especially if they haven’t actually listened to the statement being made in full, or considered it’s supporting evidence.
All this means is that there is a statistical argument that when Jokic touches the ball during a possession that it is possible, that over a certain stretch of years, that the ball will go in the net at a greater frequency than any other player in history.
The victim complex these fucking Jokic fans have is crazy. Dude wins back to back MVP and you still got these guys crying about how people are underrating him.
The two additional things with Jokic that I am still not 100% sure of and that weren’t discussed in too much detail:
At least in volume, Jokic can’t bring up the ball and have a start to finish iso possession, using screens and decide on how to finish like perimeter guys can.
I am not sure that he won’t further lose efficiency in the playoffs, if he increases his minutes and usage in the post season even more. History so far says that he only increases his output a little and gets a little less efficient, which seems fine, but to win it all he will probably get closer to playing 36-40 min/game instead of ~34.
Peak KD and 2018 Bron Clears and 2018 Bron isn’t even his best version.
Man’s has 2 mvps before a WCF please stop
If Jokic three peats MVP and gets a ring this year, I’ll consider the argument.
ITT people dismissing a take from someone who understands basketball far better than them without even listening to the evidence just because they don’t like it
I listened to this last night so I’ll give a not-so-short TL:DR since based on the comments the vast majority haven’t listened before responding. If any of the exact numbers/details are off, give me a head’s up.
– This is largely based on the regular season. Ben places great emphasis on performance in the playoffs, and while Jokic has been very good so far in the playoffs he would like to see a few deeper run in the next few seasons to feel confident about how well he holds up.
– When Jokic is on the floor Denver has the best offense in the league regardless of who is around him. When Jokic is off the floor any combination of players on the Nuggets is an absolute failure on offence. He makes anything work.
– Jokic has a league-leading on/off of around ~+28 (with this almost entirely due to the huge difference in offence production)
– He is scoring at a rate of 27 points per 75, at +11% efficiency. This is an absolutely elite number. Embiid is also having a monster season with ~35 points per 75 on +6% efficiency, and they bring up Durant and Curry too.
– Jokic is shooting an absurd 60% from the midrange and is also one of the most effective players on drives, while having a respectable 3pt %
– Cody looked at changes in team assists per 75 when a player is on/off the floor. The idea is higher team assists suggests strong ball movement and likely better-looks for other teammates (less self-creation driven offence). For example, in 2017 (?) when LeBron was on the floor his team had 7 more assists every 75 possessions compared to when he was off. This is a similar number to other Jokic seasons, Curry seasons, some Nash seasons, etc. This season Jokic blows everything out of the water, with +11 team assists per 75.
– Essentially it boils down to Jokic has an argument as the greatest scorer in the NBA and the greatest playmaker right now. How many players can say that? They float LeBron, Oscar, but it’s a short list. He has a clear argument for being in the conversation as the most dominant regular season offensive player ever.
Friendly reminder Jokic has never played with an all star. Only time he played with an all star caliber player was the bubble. Incredible what he’s done with just a bunch of average dudes his entire career.
Okay let’s see how far the “offensive GOAT” goes in the playoffs since he’s qualifies for that label. Finals appearance or bust atp
that team assist per 75 when on vs off i have to call out
Nuggets like hockey subs aka he plays majority his minutes with their 2nd beat playmaker..of course its going to be a huge difference