[Source](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6kr19yMdwMm83sAKyDseUC?si=lU-sLN1ISDOlIWM1JZutJw&t=2750&context=spotify%3Acollection%3Apodcasts%3Aepisodes)
>Here’s the other thing you have to factor in with the Raptors too:
>Over the past few years — obviously they won a title with Kawhi. Obviously that’s one of the great trades in the history of the league — but, Kawhi Leonard leaves for nothing. Marc Gasol leaves for nothing. Serge Ibaka leaves for nothing. Kyle Lowry leaves for ultimately what became Precious Achiuwa. Those four guys have become Precious Achiuwa. That’s one of the reasons the Raptors are in the spot they’re in right now…
>I don’t think they can afford to have guys walk out the door for free again based off the amount of talent drain they’ve had.
by lopea182
49 Comments
Should’ve traded for Maxey when they had the chance
I also think the whole Raptors “length” project was flawed from the start and took the whole “wings league” concept to way too far an extreme
It leads to a team that’s great at offensive rebounding and perimeter defense but horrible at rim protection and shooting
Otherwise known as “mid”
Kawhi got the chip and that was the risk.
Gasol was washed. Doubt he gets anyone.
Ibaka was washed after raps as well. He was solid in bubble after the prolonged rest but has been cooked since
Lowry couldve gone to the lakers for tht or something but glad he didnt. Raps did him a favour and he got the bag. Thats fine with me
What were the supposed to get for Kawhi? Gasol signed for the minimum with the Lakers when he left
Kawhi made it clear before he wanted to go back to LA, Marc was circling retirement, Serge is washed and Masai wanted Precious. I don’t see the issue lol.
Don’t forget Danny Green. He also left for nothing
Marc gasol and serge weren’t even good when they left
Kawhi left after winning a championship for us lol
Look at Lowry now now? Dude fell off a cliff talent else
What a dumb thing to say without context lol
This feels a little disingenuous though. Gasol and Ibaka were not nearly the same kind of assets they were when they joined the Raptors, they weren’t going to get all that much for either of them at that point.
Lowry too, even though he did sign a big deal with Miami so I guess the demand was there to get something for him. But he obviously isn’t close to the same player either. But these aren’t guys in their prime they’re letting walk out the door, it’s guys towards the tail end of their career that the Raptors already used up most of their usefulness.
it is true though. we can’t afford to lose fred, gary and possibly pascal/og for nothing. we don’t get good free agents and mlse is acting like they’re cheap af rn. i would rather sell fred and gary, tank for a good lottery prospect (please lord bless us with scoot!) and come back next year with better vibes.
Why even mention gasol or serge? Literally totally fine to let them walk I doubt anyone was giving up anything a value at the time for them, and Kawhi was a known risk.
Most those guys are old and they tried to resign Kawhi cause they won the chip. Also they let Lowry choose where to go cuz he’s their goat. Big miss
Ya, this is a bad take….
Which I mean…they won a ship so it’s fine…not finding a legit c replacement for 3 seasons is my biggest issue
“I am all of Jedi”
-Precious Achiuwa
op left out the part where goodtimes described this as the natural lifecycle of a competitive team rather than a consequence of bad decision making. Besides, despite our record, and even with that talent drain, this team’s still got a very good asset base.
Even though some of those guys weren’t worth much and Kawhi was leaving anyways I understand the point he is trying to make. O.G, siakam and vanvleet are only signed for one more season and unless they get extended could walk for nothing.
Although they don’t have to blow it up by the deadline this season, they have to start making some choices sooner rather than later.
They knew Kawhi would leave and risked it all and it more than paid off.
The rest of those guys did not have much trade value, no one is giving you draft picks for washed up Ibaka and Gasol.
Umm they didn’t leave for nothing. Raptors won a chip. Cost them some future but what’s the point of fielding a team it’s it’s not to win it all.
Ya serge needed back surgery, Marc retired a year or two later. Also they wanted cap space for Giannis if he didn’t re-sign and he didn’t re-sign until after serge made his decision. Precious is still years away from his prime. They also got under the luxury tax, and as a team that isn’t championship worthy that is the reasonable place to be. The trade exception for Goran is available but using most or any of it will put the raps into the tax which isn’t happening. If they can find someone young an hurried behind players that aren’t going anywhere, like Gary was on Portland, they have a path forward that isn’t total tank or all in.
Part of it was Masai was trying to stay flexible in case Giannis became available in free agency. Obviously it didn’t work out
the actual alternative that could’ve made any difference to the current base of assets would have been to trade marc and serge and kyle before the bubble year. When this was the 2nd seeded team in the league.
I think the media exaggerates the “leaves for nothing”. You obviously want to recoup value but sometimes it’s just the reality of the nba.
Gasol and ibaka had minimal value. Lowry is an aging star and raptors got some value. Kawhi was a gamble that paid off with the understanding he might leave.
So what they saying.. Masai = overrated ? Lol
Sorry masai is unimpeachable. Swung for the fences and won a title. He gets 6 more years before you can talk shit
Kawhi left a ring. Absolutely worth the investment. He left plenty
With all due respect the 4 players the Raptors have lost for Nothing have done next to nothing since leaving.
“Kawhi left for nothing” is such a shit take lmao he won that team a championship…that’s not nothing. I think 99% of franchises would take the trade off.
Kawhi left for nothing? Were we supposed to trade him midseason FFS?
Doesn’t matter; won championship.
Would do again.
10/10
So what they got a title.
That´s worth it..
He left out the part where they got a fucking championship from Kawhi before he left.
What exactly is he suggesting they should have done differently here? Not trade for Kawhi unless he committed to reup?
I mean they got a title out of it and Kawhi had his mind made up. I doubt if I’m Toronto I’m that sad about how things went down
Ya know…cap space is an asset. And seriously, wtf were they going to get for those geezers anyways? Nba media stinks.
I mean sure but they won a title. Gasol and Ibaka were not really valuable trade pieces. Leonard was a rental in the 1st place and it worked.
Flags fly forever.
>Those four guys have become Precious Achiuwa.
I hate this kind of shit because it’s not just misleading, it’s essentially a lie.
The Kawhi trade was a swing for the fences trade that brought them a championship. I’m sure they were really hoping he’d re-sign but I guarantee you they still make that trade with the benefit of hindsight because it won them a championship.
They got Marc Gasol at the tail end of his career, Gasol played all of 52 games and then retired after his season with the Raps.
They gave up minimal assets to acquire Ibaka in 2017 and the Raps offered him a deal reportedly worth $12m in an attempt to stay under the luxury tax, Ibaka declined and signed a 2 year deal worth $19m with the Clippers. I’m sure they would have liked to keep him but it wasn’t some huge fumble that he signed with the Clippers.
Kyle Lowry was on the down slope of his career and wanted to go to a contender, to get back a couple guys including a prospect like Precious is a good return.
Bontemps is a clown for this post.
Such a dumb tweet.
Lowry and Gasol, and even Ibaka, wasn’t talent-drain, they’re at the end of their careers.
And a ring
That’s how free agency works… Dumb post
who the fuck is this guy? Kawhi left for nothing? They won a championship, They traded Lowry, gasol was old, and Ibaka was washed
This is a pretty dumb take.
Not sure if a championship is nothing.
They literally won a championship lol. I’m sure many franchises (mine included) would take that followed by a couple years of “not getting anything for departures” from guys who are clearly past their prime sans-Kawhi.
This is one of the worse takes I’ve read, had to comment on it. Acting like we let superstars walk, aside from kawhi who was set on going home, Lowry, gasol, ibaka were all aging players and a shell of themselves.
I agree the raptors are looking pretty bad right now but no one was saying anything last year when we were doing well
Yeah I mean, kawhi got you a title and Marc and ibaka really haven’t been worth anything after that. Lowry looks a little washed to me at this point too. At least they got something for him.
Either way it’s not 4 players for achiuwa. It’s those 4 players for achiuwa and championship. Not an aweful trade and one most teams would make.
Not really how that works.
Clown take. What on fucking EARTH could they have done with Kawhii while also winning that chip? That chip is worth all of that and whatever comes at them in the next 10 years easy. Unreal, what a ludicrous take.
I wouldn’t care cuz they won a championship