Assessing Zach LaVine’s trade value for Chicago Bulls after Siakam trade? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

Assessing Zach LaVine’s trade value for Chicago Bulls after Siakam trade? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

Hello Bulls fans and welcome to the chg Bulls podcast here today on a Wednesday in the US Wednesday evening hope everyone is traveling well I am Mar from Australia joined as always by my good mate the handsome One the best beat writer going around it’s will the goat gly will how are you

Sir I’m gonna start having to live up to these just fraudulent news um introductions at some point we’ll see if that that actually happens no lies were told and joining us as well for the third straight week we we are on a streak I think this is first officially

A streak we are streaking with the young Joey spus who is in the background pressing all the buttons supporting us here today Joseph always good to have you around my friend there he is corporal SP this Sergeant SP this whatever whatever your H title is whatever your level is we appreciate you

Being here sir but William I’m glad to be here with you today because we are talking some stuff that’s connected to the the Bulls um we’re going to try and connect the Pascal SE Arkham trade to the Indiana it’s not connected we’re going to connect it if it’s yeah exactly if it’s

Not there we’re going to try our best to make it so but I do think there is permutations for what went down earlier today in the NBA with uh Pascal seum obviously moving from the Raptors to the Indiana Paces in a in a trade that went

Down a little bit earlier as I mentioned we’ll take you through that today as well as obviously connecting this back to the Bulls and I’m trying to understand if the this C Arkam deal has any relevance or way forward with the whole Zack LaVine stuff so before

Closing out the show with maybe some latest trade slop that is uh circulating around the NBA currently but uh William let’s dive into the seak trade deal or the deal that sent C Arkam to the Indiana Pacers uh maybe for those who haven’t heard in the rare case maybe you

Can get them across what the deal and the permutations of that set deal was ended up being a sort of three- team trade um but it sounds like the the third team was actually not included this might be a separate trade but uh for the bulk of it we have the Pacers

And we have the Raptors going to the Pacers we have Pascal sakam and a 2024 second round pick via the New Orleans Pelicans which is that third team I mentioned the Toronto Raptors uh receive Bruce Brown Jordan Noir CYO Lewis Jr a 2024 first round pick which is the uh

Which is from the Pacers another 2024 first round pick which is the worst of Houston Utah Oklahoma City and Los Angeles Clippers so that’s looking like it’s going to be a bottom two or three pick in the first round a 2026 top four protected pick via Indiana and a second

Round pick uh via the New Orleans Pelicans for the for in in order to take on kyol Lewis’s $5.7 million contract which puts the Pelicans under the tax line which is big for them they save a bunch of money doing that and of course have Pascal yakum heading to another

Central division rival indana Pacers um you want to just get straight into reactions because I was not surprised that this happened I mean I think we were kind of hearing about it all the way back from last night Shams had the report that they were deep in discussions but of course it didn’t

Happen until this afternoon um but three first round picks I I guess the first thing we should say is not all first round picks are created equal these are pretty low value first round pick picks but still I think sticker shock at least for me when you have a guy who’s

Expiring contract who’s making 37 million who’s in his age 29 season about to be 30 um who’s like I said gonna be a fre agan at the end of this year so I thought those was um obviously some assurances or at least the Pacers feel confident that se yakum is goingon to

Resign with them next summer but that’s another piece of this trade too that you have to factor in which is the upcoming Max contract that um sakam could sign with the Pacers which I believe is 5 years $247 million yeah and this is why I was looking forward to this episode because

I dare say in this segment and potentially the next one there might be some disagreements between you and I which is like I I mentioned this last week it’s rare that you and I diverge on certain things and and since you’ve gone C red it’s it’s become a little bit more

Frequent what do you mean gone I’ve always been CED what are you talking about no look I think I think I I understand it from your point of view in terms of you know seeing three three first round picks for a guy that’s expiring in on some level it kind of

Doesn’t make sense but I think contextually for who the Pacers are what they’re trying to be now and into the future particularly around the way halberton is sort of just boomed to at the rate that he has they they kind of they kind of got to match that in some

Respects and for them like they were projected to be a cap space team but how much does the cap space route really matter for a team like the Indiana paces is when they’re potentially bidding against someone like the Philadelphia 76ers this offseason who probably would have been a team Chase in

Seaka yeah sure there’s risk attached to this in the event that seaka may walk in the offseason I assume they’ve done this deal with some sort of you know handshake agreement in the back whereby they’ve sort of agreed to discussing or putting in place an extension or a new

Deal in the offseason so I doubt they do this move without some sort of confirmation from seaka and his agent that they would seriously consider resigning in Indiana but I think for a team like for the Pacers I think this you this is kind of what you need to do

One to to make to make it seem for your a star guy that you’re doing everything to to support him but also like I said like when you’re competing with other teams that maybe are more fancied or you know have a better option potentially like the Sixers may do you kind of need

To pay some level of tax in this regard to to get in the market for a guy like Pascal who may not have considered Indiana in in free agency I think within this scenario now like you have two or three months to sell him on your environment your culture your coach your

Star guy like if he gets to witness that and feel that in real time it’s no longer a sell of theory for the Pacers in the off season like they can actually point to hey this is this is how things went for the 30 or 40 games you were

Here like that he knows what it’s all about and what the Pacers are all about but also for them like The Leverage play with that fifth year like getting him now and getting his bird rights from that standpoint Point um if I’m not mistaken I believe that would be the

Case that matters again for a team like the Pacers whereby like in free agency they could only offer the the four years like every other team could now what they’re trying to do is trying to stack things on their side of the argument I guess and that’s why they’ve had to do

What they’ve needed to do in this deal and to your point not all picks are created equally and I don’t think the picks that they sent out were overly problematic for my side at least yeah I don’t think so either I mean if you if

You think think about it in terms of the assets that they had available to move I would say that those are probably the three least valuable right when you consider Benedict Maan was a sticking point jarus Walker was a sticking point both uh I think seventh overall picks uh

From the past two drafts you also have Andrew nard who was a second round pick but has been far outplaying that value um and so you don’t have to give up any of those guys you don’t have to give up a 2028 or 2030 pick which obviously is a

Much scarier Prospect when you don’t really know what your team will look like five six seven eight years down the line um so I don’t think it’s like a massive overpay in the sense that they shipped out way too many assets I am just a little bit lower I

Think than consensus on who SE yakum is as a player but I’ll say this I mean I think the fit is phenomenal I think it’s the best fit that the Pacers could have gotten I think it’s the best fit for SE yakum in terms of really capitalizing

And maximizing what he does well um he’s gonna just look so good next to halberton pick and roll with those two you have a floor spacing five you play fast you get out in transition uh you can defend and switch a little bit more

Like I I think it makes a lot of sense um I guess to me and we’ll obviously tie it back into the bull situation in Zack LaVine but to me like the Delta between what Pascal cakam is when you have to factor in a Max contract a five-year Max

Contract that you’re going to be giving him next year and so basically six years of seak under contract compared to Zack LaVine for this year plus three more under contract I just don’t feel like the Delta is three draft picks and so when you factor in what everybody is

Saying about Zack and you know all these fake trades that you see about like the bulls having to attach an asset to get rid of Zach like that is the part that I think doesn’t really make sense to me like I said I’m a little bit lower than

Consensus on yakum I’m not saying he’s a bad player I just think he’s a little bit overrated but I think it’s going to look really good next to Indiana and the bigger question to me is like okay now you have the Bucks who are a Powerhouse

You have the Pacers who are looking good like the Cavs are still better than you and they have Donovan Mitchell and all these young players that are continuing to grow like where are you going from here so even aside from like the Zack LaVine element of it I think it just

Reinforces this idea that the teams in the East are getting better and the Bulls haven’t done anything for three years and so whatever that is I just feel like they need to make a move that’s really I think the the Bulls piece of it for me no and look at

Continuing that line of thinking a team that has been I guess comparable to the balls over the last 2 to three years has been the Raptors now pivoting to their side of their this trade here they’ve traded OG they’ve traded now Pas Pascal sakam they obviously lost Fred vanite in

The offseason they they are pivoting to something different they are trying to do something different orbe it they’ve probably waited too long so I guess you know two questions here but have they waited too long I guess is the question and are they feeling the effects of

Holding on to Contin it too long which we know our friends in Chicago potentially are doing right now but similarly like should Bulls fans be somewhat maybe jealous isn’t the right word or envious maybe he’s not the right word either but like should we be well let’s run with it like envious

Should we be envious of the fact that a team like Toronto is picking a lane a team like the Indiana Pacers are making a very clear decisive move we We can question whether we like the move or not but like we can’t really question what they’re trying to do in terms of

Understanding what they Lane is now like that’s very clear for andana it’s very clear for what Toronto is doing whereas the Bulls were sort of still second guessing things I guess so from that perspective even though the Raptors may have held on a little bit too long and

Cost themselves um in potential deals had they moved OG and Pascal a little bit earlier should we be envious in the way they’ve sort of using this season now to Pivot and to try something different whereas the Bulls are seemingly continuing this fight for the

Plan yeah I mean that part of it is just what you want to see out of your team so if you are in the running for the plane and you feel like once you get there anything is possible then probably not but if you feel like you want a more

Substantial Direction you want longer term um blueprint yeah I think so but I mean to me the real thing here is that like for that 10th seed you’re looking at the Bulls the Nets the Hawks and the Raptors um obviously the Bulls have broken away from the pack a little bit

But they’re still only a game and a half up game and a half up on 10 ahead of the Nets so you’ve got the Bulls at 19 and 23 in the ninth seed and then you’ve got the Nets at 16 and 23 the Hawks at 16

And 23 uh Nets are ahead of them I’m sure they have some sort of tiebreaker but I mean they’re tied in in record and in sandings and then the Raptors who are a game and a half behind them at 15 and 25 like are we sure the Raptors are even

Really out of the 10 seed like I think there’s world where they they continue to like compete because of what they got back you bring in RJ Barrett you bring in Emanuel quickly you get guys that hopefully can help you compete maybe you flip Bruce Brown into something else or

Maybe you keep him because he’s a good player and you can still be competitive you still have the ability to pick a lane and also have um you know certainly they could have probably gotten a lot more for OG last um trade deadline I’m not sure how much better they could have

Done done for SE yakum like it feels like not to say that they got some sort of massive haul but they did pretty well for themselves um maybe they could have done a little bit better had they done this last year but to me it’s like this

Idea that even if you do trade some of your pieces because of the standings around where you are it’s not like they’re completely out of it now and I think that’s kind of the the thing that I’ve come to especially with regards to trading kuso is like as good as he is

And as much as he helps I don’t really think he like takes you out of the running for the 10th seed just because of the rest of the teams around that in that area so like if you trade him maybe you get a couple of extra picks that you

Can move forward with but you also can stay competitive now and that kind of scratches both itches so all that to say um I do like the way that the Raptors have approach this I do think they waited too long and could have done better but I like the path they’re on

They’ve also it’s a different situation because they have their franchise Cornerstone the Bulls do not and so it’s a little bit easier to make these decisions and especially swallow these tough pills in the form of trading Away really important players to the franchise when you know you have that

Next guy who you can build around because Bulls just simply don’t have that true but this I guess I would I would be surprised if Toronto do try to do the whole playing thing and I say that because their pick is currently protected I believe top six

If it’s out of the six it goes to the Spurs now if it’s going to be out of the six it won’t be you know beyond that by too much so potentially they would be handing over the eighth ninth pick or whatever might be in this draft to the

San Antonio Spurs so maybe it makes sense for them to be as bad as possible quite unquit as bad as possible to your point like they’ve got Scotty they’ve traded for IQ and RJ if they reroute Bruce Brown for another pick or two and in addition to the picks they’ve

Acquired here like they’ve got a good base happening from that perspective but I think it is in their best interest to maybe do some sort of rebuild SL retool tank here to ensure that they keep their their pick for for 2024 um or give it

The best odds to keep that pick for 2024 so yeah your point is is well made that they’re still currently within the uh the whole playing race and maybe this team the way it all comes together post this Pascal trade maybe they find a different gear or Yeah a different way

Of playing that enables them to if not stay in the race then you know really Vamp their way up uh within the race but who knows let’s see but I guess that is a permutation for the Bulls in terms of Eastern Conference that maybe this is still a playing a competitor for them

Maybe it’s not we mentioned the Hawks there they’re consistently in trade talks as well I would be shocked if Deonte M isn’t moved at some point so like what does that do from a uh you know a competitor race in terms of the playing but from the Pacers point of

View as well like they’ve reinforced themselves we saw the Knicks make a move earlier let’s see what Orlando and Miami and Cleveland and these types of teams do but I don’t know it’s the more I think about this it kind kind of feels like the Bulls are really stuck in that

Ninth spot I don’t see them really jumping up towards s 678 because like I said the Pacers just got better uh the Knicks have been good since OG has arrived the orando Orlando Magic if they want to make a move they can make a move and they’re already four four G four

Games over 500 already whereas like we just spoke about Atlanta potentially may go backwards uh it’s kind of in the Raptor’s best interest maybe stay backwards let’s see what the Nets do too so I don’t know it kind of feels like all these teams have some space to do

Some stuff to reinforce their position in the top eight the Hawks and Raptors can go backwards and really embold in their tank race where the Bulls are again sort of floating in that ninth space so I don’t it kind of feels like there’s still so much basketball to be

Played up but it feels like already that the Bulls have the ninth seed sew up in some respects well we’ll see what happens to the magic they’ve been struggling um like you said still four games over 500 and four games ahead of the Bulls in um in the standings so you

Know the way the Bulls have been playing it wouldn’t like totally shock me if they got up to eight I don’t see them getting any higher than that but like the difference between eight and nine is a whole play in game like you’ve got two tries to get into the playoffs you’re

Not going to get the seven seed but or I guess you in theory could get the seventh seed if you win that first playing game but the best the Bulls can do in the uh as the ninth or 10th seed is win two games and get to the eighth

Seed whereas if they win one or two games in the seventh or eighth seed then they actually have like a little bit more Security in that plan which does matter um but I guess like the real point that I’m trying to make with that is maybe the Raptors do tail off a

Little bit and they are five games back of the fifth spot in the tank ofon standings uh five and a half games back um sorry four and a half games back so they I mean they could go that direction they could just stay competitive and end

Up kind of in that spot anyway um but then okay you look at the standings and now it’s just the the Hawks and the Bulls the Nets or I’m sorry the Hawks are sounding like they’re going to be a fire sale team the Nets are absolutely spiraling right now they’ve lost three

In a row and eight of their last 10 um I just don’t know that like the Bulls are really going to fall that far back unless they completely blow it up and so to me it’s come to this place where like you can still make some selling moves

While also remaining kind of in that same kind of area code that they’re in right now and I think that’s probably the best path forward we’ll see what actually do but to me they they do like it’s almost kind of a nice problem to have even though you’re not going to

Really climb up the standings maybe you can still be competitive and also kind of acquire some stuff but we we’ll see how that actually happens yeah no doubt uh yeah there still obviously we’re still several weeks away from the trade deadline like let’s see what the Bulls do if they do

Anything but like we said the Nets could do some stuff maybe the maybe the Nets are aach team and then that completely changes the dynamic of both both of those team Seasons we we mentioned the Hawks there’s other teams around that sort of periphery space as well that

Could do some things the Lakers we’ve spoken endlessly about them being a Zach team so there’s so many different ways this thing could go and hell maybe the Pacers aren’t done doing some stuff um certainly for this off SE uh at this deadline but definitely in the offseason

They’re still in a position whereby they can be a cap space team like they’ve got some stuff they could they can still deal right now like buddy held and if you wanted to trade buddy held and Ben Ben manthan for mean like you you could so let let’s see where it goes there’s

Still a few weeks left obviously before the deadline they could actually still be in the Zack LaVine sweep Stakes because of all the stuff that they kept like in theory I don’t think they will but they could yeah uh I would be shocked if they were but yeah in theory definitely that

Is possible but uh let’s move on William I want to talk Zack LaVine and bring it more home to the Chicago balls uh comparing Zach to the the potential Zack return to this yakam turn but uh return but before we do so can you tell everyone about our friends at

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Tickets as an example I’m here marking a couple so we’ve obviously talked Pascal sakim he’s coming to you the Indiana Pacers the Bulls have the tell me you’re coming to Chicago no I’m not but I’m saying unfortunately not but like if if people are in the Chicago land area or

Anywhere across the globe and want to make their way around to uh to see the blls play Pascal so yakum in and the Indiana Paces Wednesday March 27th 2024 they’re in the UC playing the balls so if you want to see cakam in a Pace’s Jersey doing the thing with halberton

Against the balls then that’s an opportunity another another day or another game that I’ve ear marked uh Tuesday February 6 2024 potentially potentially the last time we see Zach cavine in a balls Jersey maybe it is maybe it’s not who knows but if it is maybe that’s a a game that you want

To you know potentially go and see so like I said download the game time app crate an account promo code chdo for $20 off obviously terms uh do apply but it is that easy friends to save yourself 20 bucks on your next event but pivoting to the Zack LaVine conversation now whether

You’re going to the the Wolves game or maybe you’re seeing Zack in March 27 seven against the Pacers look let’s see cuz obviously there’s still a lot of things to happen with Zach and the Bulls and the whole trade deadline which we’re going to be continuing banging on about

For the next three weeks here on this uh fine and beautiful program but today William and I wanted to to I guess lock in and hone in on the seak deal and if and if well if at all it means anything for Zach the Bulls and that potential

Trade so simple question straight up William does the sakam deal impact or affect the Zack trade at all or return for Zack lania I would say indirectly maybe a little bit but overall probably not I mean you look at the the most recent kind of Blockbuster trades uh you have

Seak now which was the three first round picks you have James Harden which happened at the beginning of the year that was three first round picks and so it’s like these situations where the team who was trading did not seem to have a ton of Leverage there were not a

Ton of Suits it was really just that like one team was really interested and so they were able to kind of get to squeeze those teams in order to give up as much as they wanted I mean I don’t think any there’s really not I didn’t think there was any justification for

The Clippers to be giving up what they gave up to get James Harden when nobody else wanted him he’s gonna become a free agent it did not seem like the Sixers had any leverage but all of a sudden you’re getting a ton of expiring money you got three first round picks coming

Back like that was a hul and so like does that affect what the Bulls could get for Zach even though these guys are not perfect players even though their contract situation is really murky does that mean maybe the Bulls could get a similar return for Zack I don’t really

Think so and the reason why is because the main difference there is that Pascal sakam and James Harden had at least one Suitor and Zack LaVine does not appear to have any suitors I think if there was anybody that was seriously interested in Zach the trade would already be done I

Think if there was anybody seriously interested in Zach the Bulls might be able to get a little bit more than what it seems like is floating around at least but from where I’m sitting like the only thing that matters right now is does anybody want him is anybody will to

Take him is he the guy that teams can convince themselves is the one to go after and until that changes it does not really seem like anybody’s goingon to be giving up anything let alone you know an overpay yeah no I I completely agree and like that’s the fundamental difference

Between this whole thing like even if we feel like I let’s be clear I think siakam’s a better player than Zack LaVine do I think it’s worth three first round picks like is is that the to know but I can also understand why it is in the sense that you know even though

They’re similarly tiered Players let’s say even though I do think sakam is better he is a different archetype to Zach but the most important part is that which you touched on like sakam had a market it wasn’t just the Pacers that were chasing him maybe they chased the

Hardest but the warriors were supposedly uh interested or thinking about a SE yakum deal what that may look like the Dallas Mavericks the Sacramento Kings there may be one or two two others that I’m forgetting off the top of my head so there was three to four teams that were

Interested in Pascal which allowed a team like the rap to sort of to to drum up the value that they did for um for him in a deal and getting back those three first round picks so to your point like we just haven’t heard anything concrete like the sakkam stuff or the OG

Stuff in relation to Zach like there’s just been nothing close to that and if anything it’s been the complete opposite whereby there’s been reporting around that there’s no teams interested in Zach no one wants him uh and if anything the only things we really heard about Zach

Is Rich Paul coming out talking about the fact that he would like to go to Sacramento or would welcome a trade to Sacramento obviously the whole La thing we know why that makes sense but beyond that we we haven’t really heard anything for Zach which is why we’re in the

Situation we are which is confronting I suppose on some level because we as fans have to reckon with that um we can all feel a certain way about Zach and we can be disappointed that guys like cakam or OG or whomever are getting certain returns but at some point like I I guess

We just got to accept what the NBA is telling us now maybe things change maybe between now and the deadline a team gets desperate and their season is falling apart or maybe the the inverse is happening maybe they’re you know advancing at a rate that they didn’t

Expect much like the Indiana paces and they want to bolster and add to that team and maybe at that point things change and Zach becomes an option for those teams but right now that’s kind of all we’re doing is like hoping for something dramatically to change within

The landscape because Zack in in his own or on his own doesn’t have the ability to really maybe change the market or that landscape in the same way sakam did when he entered that trade portal Zack has been in that portal but the context isn’t changing so I don’t know that I

Guess that’s why not that we as you know two idiots here on on YouTube have much control over the situation but I guess I I feel like I have even less control over it because no one is interested in Zach whereas like if you’re a Toronto or

Sakkam fan like you kind of feel like you potentially could get something back because at least there were teams that were interested in your guy yeah and I think like you said that’s that’s the biggest difference it’s really the only difference to me I understand that Zack LaVine is not

Really thought of very highly around the league I’m not sure I understand fully why I get that he is making a lot of money but other players making a lot of money and like SE yakum is going to be making even more money when you pay him

Next year um people are talking about you know wanting to add Shooters and players who can be like complimentary Stars well number one like every team who has multiple Stars has multiple Max contracts on their books and I think Zack LaVine is with the exception of the

Pacers probably uh a player that can fit on more teams than Pascal sakam could have so like again I think seak is a better player I think the fit there is going to make him look even better and I I think he’s just in general like kind

Of a half step or a tier above Zach just in a vacuum but this idea that like Zach is this negative asset that he is like a worse offensive player than D’Angelo Russell and Austin Reeves which is just like asinine um I don’t know I just think like the narrative about him has

Gone so far but that really does affect his trade value and it’s also probably why you know I just don’t know that I see anything actually happening here now you mentioned teams getting desperate or teams wanting to accelerate things I think where it actually does have an

Effect on LaVine the SE yakum trade is just like the general landscape on around the league you know there’s not very many players right now who are on the market you can now point to Deonte Murray you can point to like maybe some of these other lower level players and

Deon Murr All Things Considered is probably a better asset than Zach because he is under contract for longer he’s younger and he is not making as much money um I don’t think he’s anywhere close to as Dynamic of a scoring threat or an off ball like

Scorer but you can like kind of convince yourself that that’s a more palatable contract to trade for but okay so maybe he gets traded to the Nets or the Kings or the Lakers now what do those other three teams do when their two primary targets are off the market does that

Kind of make teams a little bit desperate um if the Lakers are still 11th you know the day the trade deadline do they now have to really face reality and go well do we want to waste this year with LeBron or do we want to make an all-in move that could potentially

Really help us so I don’t know I think a lot can change it’s still three weeks until the trade deadline and I expect teams to kind of have to reckon with themselves as far as like who they really are and how far they think they can go but until a team really like

Decides they like Zack and want to trade for him even if we disagree agree with the perception around the league that’s the reality of it yeah 100% agree and now I’m wondering like does a team like the Sixers not I in the rundown I’ve said re-enter the

Frame but I don’t even know if they were in the initial in the initial G Zack LaVine sweep Stakes just to be positioning them re-entering but you know put that aside do they enter the Zack LaVine uh sweep Stakes now because two guys that they will potentially position themselves for particularly in

The offseason where they”re hoarding or have the ability to create so much cap space I think it’s like 5560 million doll in cap space you just seen OG go to New York which would have been a sixcess Target Pascal has gone to Indiana who may still be a Sixers Target in for

Agency but assuming he comes to terms on a new deal with Indiana for the full fiveyear Max then he’s not going to be a sixer to the Philadelphia 76ers seeing what they’re doing right now with MB and Maxi knowing embiid’s injury history knowing the fact that he’s how many more

More good years do you have with him but he’s at that MVP MVP level right now like do you does your perspective on LaVine change does your perspective of hoarding all that cap space for July change and do you cash in and sort of take away from maybe that plan now for a

Guy like lak line so like that’s that’s the team that I immediately went to who I wasn’t really considering previously for Zach because I just I I would valued cap space more knowing that I potentially could have targeted someone like an OG or Pascal but if they’re now

Off the board if Paul George resigns or or extends in La just like kawhai did last week then what are you really even doing with that cap space in July does it even make sense to hoard your cap space for July or do you take a punt on

Someone like Zack LaVine maybe you still don’t because it’s a lot for for a guy like LaVine but that’s the kind of team I’m thinking about who can maybe enter into this this whole thing that maybe we haven’t really discussed to the same degree that we have like the Lakers as

An example or the Kings so I think a couple of things could affect that number one um what happens with Paul George before the trade deadline if they can come to an extension agreement with him that really knocks like all of the like moderately interesting free agents

Off the list yeah so you have LeBron obviously sounds like he’s going to pick up his player option Paul George has a player option he could either pick that up or uh renegotiate an extend you have Klay Thompson that’s probably going to be a Warriors resign at a lower number

But who knows I just don’t really see him ending his career anywhere else you have Tobias Harris obviously is a sixer you have Harden who all indications Point towards him resigning with the Clippers you have sakam now with the Pacers Drew holiday’s got a $40 million player option don’t really see him

Declining that or if he does it will be a longer term extension you’ve got Gordon Hayward he’s not very exciting to me you’ve got Kyle Lowry he’s not very exciting d rozan buddy hee Mike Conley and so the list kind of goes down from there to your point I think if dejonte

Murray gets moved who are you really going after and so it’s this question of like you know are the Sixers as currently constructed capable of winning a championship maybe but I think that the best thing that they could do right now if that’s the situation is resign

Their guys on one-year deals or two-year deals with Team options so that they can like roll this over and do the same thing again ahead of the 25 free agency when again you’ve got LeBron coming up you’ve got Jimmy Butler at that point we’ll see what happens with Paul George

Friend Fred Van vet is under a team option goar Kyrie um Drew holiday again Donovan Mitchell becomes a free agent so there there is more optionality if you kind of Kick the Can on the road but if you do that you run the risk of kind of wasting this season that embiid is

Having and to me as great as they’re playing right now I think when the playoffs come around you’re going to need another scorer you can’t have Maxi on the court for 48 minutes you can’t have um embiid just like creating everything when he’s out there and Maxi’s not I just don’t know

If you can win a championship with topas Harris as your third best player but maybe you can if he’s your fourth best player and you can package you know Rob Robert Covington and some of the other expiring contracts to go get a Zack LaVine or a jeon Murray or whatever so I

Definitely think that the the 76ers should make a move I know their fans and um you know people around the league talking about them are like not so interested but I to me it’s just like this game is so different in the playoffs and as dominant as they have

Been in the regular season and they have been I just think you need that third guy in the playoffs to create a shot and they don’t have that right now no and and look bringing this back to the whole Pascal and Zak Zach thing like um this is

Where we were forging a case for Zach versus a case for SE yakum in terms of you know a trade asset or or a guy on a specific team like I still think someone like makes so much more sense for the Sixers than than Zach but you know he’s

Obviously potentially not available for them but you know you you mentioned there that the Sixers need that third guy they need someone like potentially is Zach to be their third guy on the playoff team and I’m not saying I don’t believe that he can be that but I also don’t think

Teams opposing teams are wrong to feel or question can Zach be that or if he can be that like is it worth committing $ 45ish million do of of your cap space for your third guy and that’s kind of the the issue that we are in as Bulls

Fans or the Bulls are in more generally that teams don’t necessarily view Zach as anything more than that third guy and do and is that third guy really worth $45 million into today’s cap space climate like that’s a that’s a fair question and I know we can push back on

That and we can say Zach is this we can say Zack is that and that he’s worth his max or he can be a you know a star level finisher type thing but I also don’t think opposing teams are wrong to at least ask the question you know is Zach

Really worth this given that he’s not really proven it in those types of climates that you just sort of mentioned before like the Sixers like theoretically it makes complete sense but at the same time for you to take on Zach you have to and this is where all

The losing really impacts things I think one of the reason teams like the Pacers were PR prepared to offer three first round picks for someone like Pascal sakam is he’s proven it in the playoffs he was the second best guy you could argue on a championship level team now

Granted that was three or four years ago but he’s at least proven that he can play within a team concept A winning concept can play both sides of the ball is a six foot eight forward with an archetype that a lot of teams would like whereas Zach isn’t those things in some

Respects because he’s a 6 fo5 shooting guard but in terms of the winning and the intangible stuff the questions that teams have around Zack LaVine I don’t think they’re wrong to fear or question that which is you know me trying to be as objective about it as possible I

Don’t know if I’m wrong in saying that but I I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think teams are wrong to be questioning that element of Zach because it hasn’t been proven yet I think he can prove it correct but for a team to take that pun

Or to be the team to take the punt to prove that it is a bit of a risk it’s a gamble yeah I think I mean when you look at James Harden for example like he’s proven that he cannot be that guy though like I think that you also have to take

That opposite end of the argument in consider ation to not to say that like they need him to be with the Clippers team right now where he’s really the third best player um but I think that’s the bet you make is can James Harden be

The third best player on a title team I think he probably can be can Zack LaVine we haven’t seen him succeed in that situation but again we haven’t seen Harden succeed in that situation either so um obviously he’s gone much further and had way more playoff success than

Zack it’s not apples Apple’s thing but it is a question no matter where you go and I think the other consideration here is like how valuable is cap space anymore um I you know obviously you know staying under the luxury tax or staying under the aprons is a big deal but teams

Are not really like going out and signing star free agents very much anymore you either resign with your team and then ask for a trade or you know multiple guys become free agents at the same time and they decide where they’re going and then the team creat space for

Them when you think of the Clippers doing that with kawhai and Paul George and trading basically everything thing for including SGA and like 12 first round picks to go get Paul George from the thunder so if you’re the 76ers like yes it’s nice in theory to have this

Idea of all this cap space but I just don’t know what you’re going to do with it and even if they do roll it over into next season well you’ve got to Max Tyrese Maxi and so even if you resign Tobias Harris at a lower number and you

Bring back Covington and you bring back Nick Batum and you bring back Marcus Morris just to like keep those cap holes on your your books okay well what are you going to do the year after that when the cap room that you have has just shrunk dramatically because you’ve maxed

Out your second player and the other piece is like consolidating these contracts in the new uh collective bargaining agreement is really difficult to do because if you’re over the apron you can’t aggregate salaries to get a max player so this is I think in a lot

Of ways the last chance for teams to go load up on third stars and as the cap continues to rise maybe these things aren’t as big of a deal as long as you’ve got those guys under contract already so it’s definitely tricky but to me I think the narrative around the

League right now is like space over everything but at a certain point like you need to compete and if you want to compete you got to spend and if you are G to spend yeah you don’t like do it recklessly but I just don’t know that like trading for Zack LaVine is gonna

Really hamstring you when he’s only got this year and three more on his contract so again I think I’m just like pushing back on the narrative about Zach right now there’s nothing I can really do about how everybody feels about him and what other teams think but I just don’t

Know that he’s as bad as everybody seems to think he is yeah no I get it I get it but um I just got move past the the actual situation of what is I guess I I if only people could see our DMS will that that’s all I would say um I’ll just

Leave them more tease them with that but I think you you touched on something interesting there like the the market dynamics of the NBA right now is kind of the reason why the Bulls are in the situation they are in right now in some respects because they can’t trade their

Guys for something they don’t have necessarily have the draft picks to go backwards to do something at least previously and you mentioned the the the whole caps case game like is it even a real thing anymore kind of not because all these guys extend with their current

Teams get the bag and look for a trade thereafter so for the balls like you don’t have the premier draft assets to go in and and do a tank or to you know pick up something because you’re trying to you’re staying in this win now route your guys that you do have don’t

Necessarily have enough value for you to go and make one of these trade for a disgruntle star that you can bring in who’s maybe signed with his team previously but because there’s none of these free agencing entering well you know any Premier free agents entering a free agency you’re not necessarily going

To try to move your guys to create a cap climate uh or a cap situation for your team whereby you can sign these players because one they’re not there and then two you sort of just having to you know pick up B or C Level free agents which

Is why the blls are somewhat in the situation they’re in where they kind of just do nothing because neither path or any of these other paths are seemingly going to move the needle at all so it’s just a vicious cycle in some respects but I I think people have overlooked in

Some regards the way free agency has changed the landscape a little bit or the way that free agency landscape has moved and how that’s impacted the Bull’s current situation in terms of why they continuously go back to this continuity well because I don’t know like all these other paths aren’t very fruitful either

At least uh potentially don’t appear to be without completely completely Bing them Bing botting them out which they seemingly don’t want to do as well so like I said it’s a vicious cycle it’s problematic but uh let’s see what it all heads I guess but um we’re going to

Continue talking about Zach trade stuff more slop we’ll come back and do that but before we do we want to tell everyone about our friends at ComEd who are making it easier for businesses to switch to electric vehicles that’s something William that we can all get

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To do so but William tell everyone about our friend Ray our guy Ray Chevrolet is ringing in the new year with the best offers all month long make your way to Ray Chevrolet on Route 12 in Fox Lake to join on savings and start your ray resolution as one of the top selling

Chevy dealers in the midwest you’ll always be able to make uh you’ll always be able to shop one of Chicago’s largest Chevy inventories but right now they’re trying to make room for inbound 2024 models so all their current inventory is must go plus you can find the perfect

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Off right visit Ray Chevrolet and Foxlake l or Ray chevrolet.com to start your ray resolution they’ve been serving the community since 1963 Ray Chevrolet find New Roads there you go I think we might need to contact our mate Ray and see if he can offer a Chevy or two up in the Zack

Lille Zack leine sweep steak so maybe yeah maybe that part a little bit just just a little bit just a little bit like hey we’ll give you Zach we’ll give you Caruso and our mate Ray is going to you know send you through or for you through

A couple Chevies does does that do a deal for you last Angeles or whomever I don’t know I’m just putting it out there if if Ray’s looking to make some some deals as well there’s just some synergies across the board here so well speaking of little sweeteners there was

A little nugget today in something that Casey wrote and uh this Echoes a sentiment from Mark Stein who wrote in his new newsletter the other week Casey wrote given that insurance is currently paying the bulk of his contract it is conceivable that Lonzo ball is used as salary matching addition to any

Potential trade the Bulls could make before the February 8th deadline that is pretty juicy news to me um not saying I think that it’s going to happen but it does kind of come off as an asset I mean basically right now insurance is paying I believe 80% of con of lonzo’s contract

Meaning yes it’s still on your books but you are not paying it the insurance company is paying it so that’s like a lot of savings off the books for owners who could be interested in um you know whether they’re trying to get under the luxury tax or whatever like that’s a

That’s a huge chunk of money that you’re saving this year I don’t know what the rule is I would have to check this out about whether um another team can medically retire Alonzo after next year but maybe you you know either way he’d be in uh expiring contract you could get

The DPE for him again if he’s unable to play um or maybe be able to wipe him off the books entirely with the medical retirement Clause so that’s kind of an interesting salary matching thing and it makes me wonder like the bull could have put Lonzo out there they’ve got multiple

Picks that they can trade not saying they should they’ve got the Portland pick they can trade starting um I believe 2027 2028 29 30 obviously have to do alternating years to avoid steppan rule um but they have some stuff that they could ship out to make a compelling

Offer with matching salary to go get somebody I mean I don’t necessarily think that they should do this because I’m more on board with going the other direction but like there’s a world where they become buyers at the deadline and I think that could actually be pretty

Interesting do you feel like that’s a solution worth entertaining huh yeah it’s an interesting one uh I would be extremely surprised if the balls and buyers at the deadline I I don’t foresee I mean and I guess I the reason why I say that like there’s been previous Seasons where it made more

Sense to be a buyer at the deadline and they chose not to do it then so doing it now kind of seems you know why would you do it now if you haven’t done it in the past I suppose but maybe maybe like maybe obviously the context of the Lonzo

Situation is different now compared to what it was one or two years ago so yeah it makes sense on some level I do I see them moving on from Lonzo or using this within a deal I I don’t know like would would this be part of Alonzo sorry a

LaVine deal or a separate deal and I’m thinking it would probably be separate like okay this is just off the dome right now I’m going to the triade machine to see if this is even legal but like could you do and Patrick Williams for Gordon Hayward

And a pick or something like that you get expiring contract um you avoid the issue of having to pay Patrick Williams if you’re not comfortable doing that and you get a contributor who’s a veteran who can shoot trible pass and defend a little bit obviously that’s a risk but

Um like that doesn’t seem totally crazy to me and if you can get like an asset back and clear out a ton of space I don’t know I could see that being potentially interesting um but again that was like first thing that came to mind it could be a variety of other

Teams and another situation but you know the Hornets are going through uh an ownership change maybe they want to take a swing on Patrick they feel like they are comfortable paying him rather than Gordon Hayward you get the ball Brothers back together if Lonzo can ever make a

Comeback otherwise no harm no fall because you’re not even paying his contract insurance is um I don’t know I could see that being kind of interesting yeah that’s I hadn’t thought of that one one that I thought about was pairing him with v and you know sending

Him to Golden State as an example um they I think they need some help in the center room they’ve taken I think Lonzo assuming he could come back would be a perfect warrior in some respects but if not then as you mentioned before uh insurance is paying a lot of his deal

And if Laker wants to get off someone like Andrew Wiggins or Another Bad contract that they potentially have there and he’s prepared to give up one of their younger guys or future future picks maybe I I don’t know like that that’s probably where my head was going again not necessarily connected to the

LaVine stuff because when you then add Alonzo’s 20 million to Zach’s 40ish now that’s we’re talking about 60 million 60 million that you have to line up or or marry up in a deal which is even more difficult maybe than just dealing with Zach alone so yeah like a a buyer move

Though because you’re still moving off of one of your players that obviously management believes in as a foundational piece but like could they have put together a more compelling package for SE yakum like is it should we be like criticizing the Bulls for not getting in

On the seak or OG sweep Stakes when you had matching salary you don’t know what you’re G to do with Patrick you’ve got picks like I don’t know I I wonder I’m not saying they should do it because again I believe they should go the other

Direction um and we can talk about like if they’re not gonna be able to trade Zack what they what should they do but I don’t know I think that’s a that is a path not taken for sure well I mean how would Patrick oriam be able to develop William if you traded

For Pascal cakam like it just it just wouldn’t be possible well Patrick would be in the trade is my point like you would you would turn patri into douche so I I’m aware the real question is could he could he you know survive next to Scotty Barnes wow let’s not going

There Florida State boys yeah anyways any more traits that you want to discuss there’s a little bit flying around stuff uh you know post the seum stuff with teams like the Mavericks maybe some other teams like the Kings teams that were involved in the sakam stuff which we hoping maybe they could

Enter into the Zach stuff maybe let’s see I guess that’s a question like are those markets connected at all and do maybe less connected to the slot but like do you think do you think a team like I don’t know the Kings now because theyve missed out on on aakam that they

Position themselves or continue going down that rout where they want to Target a two-way forward or do they pivot to something like Zach do do do you think we’ll start getting reports about teams that were previously in the Pascal stuff now coming into the Zach stuff at least

Initially post the seak deal we haven’t heard anything to that extent but I’m wondering if you’re hopeful that something like that could change or if you think something would change like that I think that’s like the only way that teams start to or that there’s like

Some an interest that begins to drum up but Jake fiser at Yahoo sports came out with um some some trade rumors in an article this morning we can go through some of them uh this was prior to the SE yakum trade so some of this has changed

But teams like Dallas were interested in seum they’re also interested in Andrew Wiggins PJ Washington and Dorian FY Smith um as well as Jeremy Grant who it seems like the pro lasers are not necessarily interested in moving but apparently the kings are were a Suitor for sakam and they had made Harrison

Barnes Kevin herder and Davon Mitchell available in trades that was the trade package that I put together for Zach and so maybe that holds and is something that um the Bulls could get in on now that uh you know like I don’t know if Deonte really fits with the Kings like I

If I Were them I’d probably prefer Zach but um you know the money is a big deal obviously golden state was mentioned as a SE yakum partner I don’t see them really being in the zakine sweep Stakes I don’t really see the Bulls trading vuch like really under any circumstances

It just seems like they brought him back because they want him around um so they’ll have to obviously Go a different direction Phoenix could be potentially moving some guys they’ve got Grayson Allen and nasier little who make I think like 15ish million combined they could um and they they also have four second

Round picks at their disposal so they could package those guys to get another contributor uh PJ Tucker is a is a trade candidate um let’s see who else uh Terry rir Gordon Hayward Miami has been linked to Rosier I like that fit but like I don’t know if I want $25 million of

Terry Rosier on my books I mean people think zakine is a bad Defender like watch a Charlotte Hornet game um and then San Antonio could make available MC Derman and cheddy Osman as well as Devonte Graham who’s making 12 million this year but it has only 2.8 guaranteed

For next year so that could be interesting and you know it does feel like to me a lot of these teams are buyers there really are not a lot of sellers on the market even the Hawks like I think that they would be looking to add Talent back because they’ve got a

Ton of picks out the door to to the Spurs and the deante trade so you know I wonder who of these teams end up really being sellers um or if there are any real sellers left uh which also you know makes you consider what are the Bulls

Doing when they could potentially be one of the few teams who has assets available uh on a marketplace where there’s a ton of buyers and not a lot of sellers um but do any of those names interest you uh just independent of Zach or not and uh I don’t know like any any

Trade rumors that are particularly interesting to you at this point well not necessarily for the Bulls in terms of buying but I think something that again coming back to the whole Zach thing like guys like Terry Rosia Deon Mari even Jordan Clarkson in Utah like I think those guys indirectly impacting

The Zach stuff too and I say that by I’m not I’m not suggesting that any of those guys are better than than Zack LaVine or anything like that but if I can get Terry Rosier and pay him 24 million this year I think next year’s only a partial

Guarantee and then thereafter he’s a free agent if I can get a player who gives me 70 to 80% of Zach’s you know production but do so on someone who’s earning you know 50 to 60% of his contract that to me makes more sense for a team than trading for Zach similarly

With Deonte Murray like we talked about him or we touched on him before like his contract I think this year is what like s 17 18 19 million dollar something like that something small it it kicks up a little bit next year and the four years thereafter because of his extension that

He signed with the Hawks but like he is a far more reasonable and palatable play from a cost point of view for teams that may be scared of the the first apron or going into that tax or pushing up towards the second apron even Jordan Jordan Clarkson I don’t know if he is

Necessarily available right now given Utah is just doing this winning thing to an an extreme rate like maybe they wouldn’t want to sell any of their veterans but again like someone like Jordan Clarkson isn’t better than than Zack LaVine I don’t know what you want to describe how much you know how

Comparable they are but let let’s just say that Jordan Clarkson is 60% of Zack LaVine he’s earning a lot less than Zack LaVine like if I’m a team like the Sixers or the Knicks or insert whoever like who wants to have that upgrade why would I position myself as Zach when I

Can take a run on some of these cheaper guards who can maybe fit in a little bit easier don’t cost as much and if it doesn’t work I have more ability to sort of pivot because either the contract value is not huge or there’s just not

The same amount of years as Zach like that’s the stuff that interests me that guys like Terry Rosier who’s probably not as good as Zach unfortunately might have more interest and more play Within the market just because of again the market dynamics which we discussed before which is wild to think about yeah

Rosier making $23 million this year $25 million next year and then is a partial guarantee but that guarantee is for $25 million um so all likelihood he’s back on the third year of the contract for 26.6 million so that’s still a substantial about money but to your

Point I mean that’s like almost half of what Zack LaVine is gonna be making but I think like the real opportunity cost for a lot of these teams at least the New Yorks and miamis of the world is Donovan Mitchell and his pending free agency after next season

Like is it does it make more sense for a team like the Knicks who I don’t think are in the Z sweep Stakes whatsoever but rather than going out and trading for Deonte Murray or Terry rir or one of these guys doesn’t make sense to hoard

Your picks uh two of those picks are protected I believe this year and not going to convey meaning they’ll have another chance to convey the following year so those will continue to roll over from the Pistons and from the Hornets like could you at some point package

Those for Donovan Mitchell and you know if you’re going to pay for a max player you may as well get somebody who I think is much better than Zach um so I think all those things factor in ultimately if Zack gets traded it’s going to be I

Think to a team that’s just like really desperate to make a move and really the Lakers are the only team that reeks of desperation enough to like pull the trigger on that we’ll see if they actually go through with it maybe a Rosier or deante I don’t know about

Jordan Clarkson either uh whether he’ll be traded like the Jazz probably would sell anybody for the right price but uh remains to be seen to me like if you can’t trade Zach I just and this is maybe a good lead into next week’s conversation um but I just feel like you

You still are obligated to make some sort of directional move right now and so if it’s not Zach and you don’t know what you’re gonna get from dear in free agency and you have this opportunity to sell high on cisso like I still feel like they should really explore those

Options just from a value play and I think that the fact that the Bulls aren’t operating from what do we do here in terms of value I think is always going to put them in a position of weakness quite frankly and uh yeah until they start to prioritize value over

Mediocrity then I think they’re going to continue to be mediocre what a perfect place to win the podcast on that upbeat note let’s call it a day uh William thank you for joining me today this was a fun conversation thank you to the NBA for giving us this uh Pascal trade that may

Certainly made our job a lot easier in terms of coming up with a rundown but I’m hoping everyone that tuned in enjoyed the show thank you everyone for supporting us on YouTube hit the like button on your way out appreciate everyone in the comments as always apart from Anthony who’s suggesting that the

The the balls trade Billy Donovan which is just H extremely disrespectful Anthony how dare you but uh yeah appreciate everyone for tuning in apple Spotify all that sort of stuff five star reviews of course William you can follow him on Twitter at willor gotle uh we on Twitter

Chgo balls you can get Matt and Big Dave there too for whatever reason I’m forgetting their handles off the top of my head I apologize Matthew and David that is my mistake uh I’m on on Twitter apparently at two MK Hoops the guys will be back for Bulls Toronto tomorrow so

Obviously this is another element to this whole thing the SE yakum trade going down just before the blls play the Raptors we don’t know if that really changes the dynamic of that game too much but obviously the guys will be covering of course at Ball Sports what

An idiot I am thank you dreads for pointing that out for me B that’s what Big Dave is and matek at blls how how could I forget that how could I do my friends dirty like that William just a terrible person terrible person but as I said William big day

Matt that all be back as well as the king young Joseph spus or Corporal Sergeant spus whatever you are they’ll all be back to take you through Toronto versus the Bulls tomorrow night so shooting then friends let’s see how it all goes again the balls go against the

New look Raptors uh William and I will be back some stage next week talking all things balls but like I said I appreciate everyone tuning in speak then take it Easy

On today’s episode of the CHGO Bulls podcast, Mark and Will are back for another HQ Edition. They discuss the Pascal Siakam trade betweeen the Indiana Pacers and Toronto Raptors before getting into how it may impact Zach LaVine as a trade target.

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