Early impressions of Pascal Siakam + winners and losers from that trade with Miller Time Podcast

Early impressions of Pascal Siakam + winners and losers from that trade with Miller Time Podcast

What have we learned from Pascal siakam’s first two games as a Pacer and where does this trade rank among franchise history who else on the roster is a winner and loser from the trade we’ll talk about all that in the crossover the century with the Miller Time podcast on today’s lock on Pacers

Podcast you are locked on Pacers your daily Indiana Pacers podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day what up y’all happy Tuesday and welcome into another edition of the lockon Pacers podcast where we of course talk about the Indiana Pacers as always my

Name’s Tony East I cover the team for Forbes and Si and today we have a lot to talk about the Pascal sakam trade through two games its place in Pacers history is one of the bigger trades in franchise history the winners and losers on the Pacers roster from the deal

There’s a lot to dissect still through two games about this trade and it’s time to do something that I’ve wanted to do for a while but I’ve never done a crossover with both Miller Time Podcast guys Dave and John are here for a lengthy discussion about all of that the

Pacers path forward what comes next for this team man do we get in depth it’s a fun one stick with us let’s get right to it the least ambitious crossover since Infinity War as they say the Miller Time Podcast is back do I have to do introductions how

Does this work I think everybody knows the podfathers of the Pacer space John and Dave are here as they used to be called Flava Dave John I can’t remember your nickname I’m sorry you have to John filet how D yeah but it’s like your name it’s not a nickname how dare We’re Off

To the Races that’s not a nickname I was seeing it in my head but I was having trouble because you have the law as your like fake middle name on Twitter I got do professional now John yeah I know we take you too seriously to call you a fish it’s it’s John filet

Esquire now sir I’m never calling you that uh we had to get the gang together the Pacers made probably their biggest trade in franchise history oh ask got in just a second Pascal seak com’s on the team two games in start with you John would you w say that it is potentially

The biggest trade in franchise history two now that you’ve seen him play twice have your what are thoughts on the trade are they still the same how are you feeling about the Pacers right this second I don’t to answer the first question I don’t think it’s the biggest

Trade in franchise history I think at least in my lifetime I think the easy candidate right now is the halberton Trade Fair yeah I um also I mean you could also make you can also go back before that one and say the Paul George trade because Davis trade it got sa

Bonus to or if you even want to be like if you want to go completely negative you could go uh the trade that cost the Pacers a shot at drafting Michael Jordan that’s true if you want to go way back but no I mean J they traded for J I

Guess yeah yeah you g get but you kind of got the hindsight thing in there which is fine at the time of acquisition at the time of acquisition right man I don’t know and you’re saying Pacers history so I feel like it’s fair to say like the return right not necessarily

What’s the sum total of all the people involved and you say well you sent out domos sabona so obviously that makes it bigger and I well you know alurn has been better I think than even the most optimistic person but he was still a very highly regarded player that’s true

But when it comes to what is coming into the Pacers and what was known at the time of how good that person was I think that’s a real hard argument to say that this wasn’t this is this is the most valuable player that the Pacers have ever gotten via trade ignoring what went

Out right and also even if you consider what went out the Pacers I mean I know they gave up three firstr draft picks but two of those convey this year and it looks like they’re not going to be very good and I know that you can point to

Where seakan was drafted he was drafted in the 20s Oobi was drafted in the 20s you know the Raptors and usai mueri have been really good about finding Talent late in the draft but you know if you’re the Pacers and you’re you have Tyre Tyrese halberton the Pacers now are in

The same position they were when they signed Paul George to that extension the minute that the Inc was dried on that contract they they were on the clock they’re on the clock now and at some point you just you’ve got to start winning games you’ve got to to um catch

Up with your timeline I don’t think anyone in the Pacers organization expected the Pacers to be this good this year I think they expected tyes hel Britain to continue growing I didn’t think they I don’t think they expected him to be one of the 10 best players in

The league this year as he’s been when he’s been healthy so um I mean yeah given that they gave up a guy in Bruce Brown who likely wasn’t going to be here longterm anyways Jordan nir who was an end of rotation bench player and then two firstr draft picks which are going

To be in the 20s most likely to get a guy who is an incredible upgrade at a position of need yeah I think you do that 10 times out of 10 Dave continue if you have any other thoughts otherwise we going to read you a list of potential answers this’s the

Chris Mullen trade count does that does that get close to this that was fun and that was like Wella that’s cool but he at the time it was you know it was later in his career and I think people had pretty muted expectations for what he

Would bring the pedigree was cool it was amazing to be like good somebody that kind of famous was coming to the Pacers was was a big deal but I think everybody had a realistic expectation of what he would actually contribute oh guys guys guys I found it I found the answer I’m

So sorry I can’t believe I forgot about this uh November 24th 2020 the Pacers traded TJ Leaf to OKC for jayen leue I totally forgot that’s the that is a big one you gotta duck the tax you gotta duck the tax man you know yeah you know

Anytime you can you know the bills come the bills come we we we hadn’t made the point yet that um you know the Pacers have so many young players they’re struggling to find minutes for their two first rounders from last year so adding two first rounders this year I think that they had

To trade them anyway like it would have been just smart to find some way to get value out of that that wasn’t just adding young players to the bench that that couldn’t get any minutes and so that made it a very easy thing for them

To sacrifice um you know I I I heard a little bit of hand ringing about the Pacers maybe knowing that they were on the clock and they needed to make a move but I feel like they were had giant red neon flashing signs that they were going to make a trade this

Year when they signed Bruce Brown to that contract I mean that was designed to be traded and it seems like everybody was on the same page that’s what would happen onto this eventually so having that being the centerpiece MoneyWise which is something that they went into the season it’s almost like they signed

SE yakum halfway last year in the offseason because of how they use that cap sish which is pretty smart now you’ve got the future pick in there and you know um you never know what’s going to happen with that that seems like the one real asset that Pacers could use in

Some way but man that’s a pretty small H price to pay and I think a lot of the reaction to the trade initially was a little bit muted because nobody knew what was going to happen in the off season if this was a rental it would be

Disaster be a big word but it would suck I mean like the throw all disaster I will use the d word it would be a disaster well I would the only reason I would say is a disaster is they still have halberton they still have everybody

Else they had some they have space so like I mean overall just in the big picture is but obviously they would definitely end up losing that trade but because they haven’t announced what the next contract is going to be it’s still a little bit light but it seems like

They’re telegraphing pretty clearly like we at least have some understanding that he’s coming back from all parties and I’m pretty shocked to hear I mean I know Toronto worked so hard to try to obtain Miles Turner for so long the fact that it seems like seaka was the one driving

That he was the one saying Miles Turner is like the perfect fit next to me I’d really like to play with him having that come out the fact that he was talking to Halbert and the fact that he really wants to play with Indiana that seems

Like they have some kind of if not a handshake deal at least like a broad understanding of yeah that sounds about right I think that that’s what we’re going to head towards that completely swings this trade from being like something that seemed like a good risk to something that is now an unbelievable

Kind of upside based off the the uh the assets that they put out I can’t believe that the Pacers are the beneficiary of like a BS trade because a player forces way to the Pacers is insane can you believe we’re sitting that’s crazy time all guy forces his way to the Pacers as

Wild and just to add on to that the Pacers in spite of what they gave up they haven’t painted themselves into a corner here they still have flexibility they still have young guys on rookie deals um they still kept they kept Benedict Ma and they kept jarus Walker

Who both of those guys were rumored to have have to be included in the trade to get SE yakum away and you know usiri at least in his history he has a tendency of hanging on and hanging on until he gets what he wants before he pulls a

Trigger on a trade so um the fact that they kept those guys um was huge it was huge and also it also indicates that you know they’ve got more tools in the war chest if they want to make another big swing in a trade um and you know look at

Someone like Bruce Brown who you mentioned whose contract was just built to be traded you know Dave said there was flashing red red lights I mean I feel the same way about Buddy heel I don’t know what his we talk about Buddy heel John Don’t You Worry over for sure

I figured we’ll get there but like I just don’t know I don’t know I don’t know what his value is right now but like yeah he’s a flawed player but like that seems unfair because there’s no such thing as a perfect basketball player he has good attributes that

Winning teams would want especially you know teams that you know are contending this year I the point is all that’s just to say they got a great player at a position of need that they desperately needed and they still kept a lot of ammunition to make potential moves and

If this yakum trade backfires you know they still have ways of moving forward without this which is why if it would be a disaster I guess it’d be a lowercase D is where I’m at right now and really like Dave said it really depends on what

The terms of that contract are I know that it was reported that seaka wants a Max extension I would really hope that he doesn’t get a Max extension um but it just if you’re the Pacers what are you going to do I mean guys like this don’t

Often mean how often do you guys want to come to and actually play for the Pacers Dave mentioned it so SE yak’s got all the leverage in his Corner in that regard okay three thoughts one Mark Jackson TRD we missed that one that’s probably a good Contender I I was going

To mention that because you got rookie of the year um being able to acquire him that was that was a fairly big deal it’s it’s it’s in there but rookie of the year is a lot short of being a you know two-time all NBA player and a former

Champion I would say two I think even if it was just sakam or his camp or whatever being like if you pay me the most money I will stay like even that is a good enough Assurance regardless of like specific terms they can do that they are the only team that can beat

Everybody else for sure fifth year more raises whatever that happens to be three I’ll propose this question now and I will continue to beat this drum come fore agency time it is better to have Pascal cakam on a five-year Max contract than to lose him in free agency is the

Stance that I think is key so if that’s what it takes I think they have to do it hey got a short little break here to talk to you the lovely folks over at FanDuel NFL playoffs rolling the championship games are going to be sweet

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That you you got to remember that the Cap’s going to keep going up that obviously you know it’s a percentage of the cap and that mitigates it a little bit but um you know the he has the kind of talent I think that combined with what Hal Burton’s making and what they

Might be able to back fill with kind of younger players that will eventually need to get paid um I guess the bottom line is with a player of his impact so many teams have been able to make it work and I am unaware of a team that’s

Been able to get to a championship level without paying like two guys that amount of money um I don’t what other path would there be I would say and they also have the picks and the young players that if they had to get off that money

For some crazy reason I feel like they would be able to do it um I don’t think that you would necessarily need to uh but if you were thinking well he might not be totally worth a complete Max contract he might be worth a little bit

Short of that but how else are you going to get that player that is that short of that and timing becomes a really big issue it’s easy to say now oh you got Max space in the offseason like what are you gonna do max out Tobias Harris and

Then you know you’ve got Bruce Brown and you’ve got um buddy heal’s contract set up to be able to make a move like that well that’s a moment in time that’s going to be gone pretty quickly so once that’s done and those young contracts start expanding when else are you going

To have the opportunity to really put together this amount of talent so you know Tony what what’s what was the amount of uh sakumo first year max if he was to sign that in it’s 30% of the capab it depends where it it comes in if

It if the cap goes up 10% his 30% Max should be the same as Hal bur’s five for 260 getting a premium Talent is hard if SE yakum is really worth quote unquote like 25% of the cap okay you’re overpaying him a little bit but getting

That kind of impact player is so hard you have to say if you’re not gonna pay that then how else are you going to get a player with that level of impact over a replacement player or a very good starter that’s where the it gets really

Tough to get and that’s where the only reason anybody would care about how much seaka makes this opportunity cost and I think that the opportunity cost of letting go of him and then trying to reacquire a player that can make that kind of plus impact um is you know is

Offset in a way of you know how else would you make up that amount what other options would you have to get that done um I think that se yakum is definitely the best path um to to that and um I think that that impact could be a little bit

Overrated if the Pacers could sustain Matt CF space for five years okay now you can rethink oh okay maybe you don’t pay that contract maybe you wait one more year but they’re not going to be able to do that that moment in time’s going to evaporate and so

Timing has to do with that too I agree I got nothing to add I think that well the opportunity cost part of acquiring a star in trade is like who the heck is Mystery player X that will like be available you know you just you don’t know right it’s like it’s it’s

Funny because it’s like you have all these young players you have all these picks you have an awesome superstar in tyres Halbert and you’re looking around at what could be acquired SE yakum is the best option and then you acquire him and you’re like well maybe you don’t

Give him a Max contract because you can get somebody else well you just went through a cycle where you tried to get the best available Talent he was so like you just proved to yourself that it’s not that easy to get a guy that good exactly and you know and another point

And Zack low brought this up on his podcast that I think was really spoton just to kind of picky back off what Dave said you know and even what Tony just said you never know when the next big guy is going to become available I think

It was W that said the NBA now is pretty much just like the college transfer portal where guys are just taking the contract now forcing their way to a team later um but you know so you never know when someone’s going to become available but then you’ve got these teams like

Utah and Oklahoma City who just have are loaded with picks so many of them aren’t even their own they could so they can yeah so they just when it comes to you know who’s to say if somebody else becomes available the Pacers will likely get out bid there and that’s something

That that was a point I didn’t even think about when until Zack mentioned is like oh yeah for sure so yeah if you got a guy of siakam’s caliber and all it takes is you know Bruce Brown who like you said wasn’t part of the long-term

Plan plus two picks are G wind up in the 20s you do it and and like they’ve said if you got to overpay a little bit it’s so hard to get a guy like this on your team even especially when you’re a small Market team that’s just the premium you

Got to pay that’s a cost to doing business oh we if you think oh we could pass on sakam and then get I don’t freaking know n name sure in the future and then he becomes available and then it’s like just kidding the Pelicans traded seven firsts and yeah Trey Murphy

It’s like okay well you lose you just don’t get him and then you don’t nothing you have neither player so I agree with that line of thinking I thought it made a lot of sense at the value they did it at none of those picks they assuming

Tyrus halberton stays this good at least will be any good anyways P I mean this stat sucks now because of what you just said where it’s like the transfer portal but they haven’t had a second contract guy they drafted since Turner but some of that’s because they they traded Aaron holiday

They traded Goa it’s not like they were like totally inadequate players either way um sakam has played two games in one of them he was pretty dang good minutes by like 25 points in Portland he looked great with Halbert and the other one he played some Center wasn’t as

Effective what have your guys’s early impressions of him B I like the way he’s fitted with their style clearly uh going to take some work to integrate someone like that into their as they call it random action style I don’t want to just totally excuse stuff by just saying oh it’ll

Take some time like that’s dumb like he’s a talented player I think he’s been pretty good though what do you think John will’ll start with you so in the first game that Portland game when halton’s back the starting five I know I know it’s against Portland

They’ve only won 10 games this year or whatever but that starting five it just looked like they were just on gliders man it just the ball was whipping around it seemed like every yeah there was some hiccups but it just it seemed like with halberton out there he

Knew who especially when it came to se yakum he knew where to get the ball to him and and and and it just you could you could see that there this is going to work and my biggest uh fear when they got sakam is this GNA be sabonis Ander

All over again like is this going to diminish because miles Turner’s had an excellent season this year arguably his career best I was I was just I was so hesitant I was like is this just going to be a repeat of what they did with sabonis and Turner where Turner’s just

Basically shooting threes and getting blocks where you can um and that didn’t happen I mean both of them seak and Turner were what like over 20 points in that game 50 something combined right yeah and I think you said on the podcast that you did a couple days ago you know

If the if the bench just shows up at all they win that game by 20 points because the starters were so incredible um and then the and then the Phoenix game happens and Hal Britton doesn’t play and then you know OB the offense is going to

Fall off but you see some hiccups there and again it’s the second game I’m not worried or concerned about anything yet I’m just watching I’m just watching this evolve like even the coaching staff and the players are but I’m already has anytime that Pascal yakum takes the ball

Up court I’m already like making the yikes emoji face because because he just his his arms are so long and linky and he seems so uncoordinated which is weird because like already on social media they’re showing he’s like a big soccer fan they’re already showing him doing

Like P moves with the basketball at half court so he’s like he’s got some finesse to his game but there’s just been portions where like even at the end of that uh of that Suns game like he dribbles the ball and he once he gets past half court they just like they they

Take his cookies and that’s the end of it so um it’s yeah no go Jake one more break here guys we can talk about the awesome folks over at prize picks daily fantasy sports made easy it’s really simple what you do on prize picks you pick more than or less

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Played on Tonto for so long and they had such a hard time creating basketball stuff buckets had a hard time creating basketballs round it was making something that’s round is harder than it looks you know you gotta get every single also like just just you know caveat obviously anytime halberton

Doesn’t play like there’s going to be hiccups on this te so it’s that’s not like that’s not me like throwing the baby out with the bath water um I he had to do so much on ball creation and it’s not he wasn’t amazing at it you know

Think that he was good at it obviously he was able to be an excellent player I really don’t want to take anything away from it but you’re trying to incorporate somebody into the best offense in the history of basketball somewhat still improbably to me it still feels weird

Saying it but it still happens to be true and you know taking the ball and trying to create through a couple different Defenders is something that he’s had to do so much in his career um and you know dribbling into the traffic a little bit and getting a little bit

Caught hopefully the Pacers can get into a situation especially with halberton in the game where he’s really not doing that that very much and that’s one of the biggest reasons why I think seaka wanted to play here and why I thought that it would be such a good acquisition

On offense because you look at the offensive numbers and his ability to score and you know the amount of buckets he can create um for himself as well you might scratch your head and say well it’s the the offense is so great anyway what would be the point but you know

When you look at the Lakers game the championship game of the inseason tournament I thought that that really highlighted the importance of Benedict Maan because when the got defense got really intense it was hard to score buckets mathin being a guy that could just bully through defenses and score against two

Or three guys became really important his ability to get to the line became really important you’ve added a second guy who can do that and so siakam’s ability to get those tough buckets you’ve got two options um outside of uh you know halberton to be able to get uh

Uh you know baskets in tough situations on that when the defenses get really intense you also have a an outlet for uh Tyrus halberton when he gets trapped you know like this sort of almost like a super dram on green situation where it’s gonna be really hard to double team

Tyrus halberton when SE yakum can get it in space he is so good in scoring in space and he’s so good at up finishing through contact and scoring that that’s going to put a tremendous amount of pressure on opposing defenses whereas something that Obi toppen just can’t do

I mean like if he’s not going to be able to fight through a couple of different Defenders and finish strong that’s just not what he does he scores when he’s open you know um so that we saw a little bit of that um in these two games in his

Ability to his famous spin move you know if you’re spinning into three Defenders that can get a little bit tough but when you space out the defense and they’ve trapped tyres halberton and you’re spinning against one guy in the modern NBA that’s going to be really damn

Effective um and so I really love seeing that um you know also having a guy of his size and length that can occasionally take on that impossible to the guard guy SE yakum is not an amazing player at that in that regard he’s not like one of the five best on ball

Defenders or anything like that but he’s very good you know and you saw when he guarded uh you know Kevin Durant at the end of the half and he kind of shut that down and you saw plays where he was uh you know navigating switches very well

And causing a lot of chaos and tipping passes you’re starting to see it bleed in a little bit of the kind of impact that he can make defensively um I don’t think that he’s gonna be this Draymond greenes guy that is completely shutting down opposing offenses every single play but

I think that he can make plays like that and um that is the most exciting thing is being able to make that offense work against the toughest defenses and of course ramp up the uh the defensive pressure a little bit um I’m hoping that being engaged on a team and having a

Much easier time on offense by having Tyrus halberton spoon feed him a lot of great opportunities is going to open up that kind of energy and passion to be able to make that kind of um impact on the defensive end and a much more consistent way and I thought we started

To see that a little bit more in that Phoenix game um and hopefully they could figure out how to incorporate that in a more consistent way throughout the entire game I think it’ll be a lot harder to hide guys for other teams defensively right they have to put a big

Four on cakam instead of on halberton or maen or whoever and even the flips side of that something that got noted right away by Miles Turner is like even if whether it was Obie or Jaylen Smith like opposing teams are putting their four on Miles Turner because he was involved in

The screens all the time and then they’re five on Jaylen Smith can’t do that anymore can’t put a five on seak he’ll just drive right past him so naturally there will be more attackable matchups for the Pacers by default just like lining up Five Guys on the floor to

Do anything and defensively a core part of his size part of this like that we just saw it last Monday people clowned them and they should have a little bit like when nard was guarding Lowry marinin last Monday it was like oh man oh boy but but think about the starting

Five that game because n didn’t play either who’s the best option like that there wasn’t really a good answer with him playing the three and I get that is out too but like in general when they play these gargantuan Orlando Utah LA Laker teams they always have had a match up where they’re

Outsized even with their best defensive five now everybody’s kind of like naturally guarding their position right Turner’s guarding a five siakam’s guarding a four neith’s guarding a three guards are guarding guards great like you can handle that a lot better so even beyond anything he does the fact that

He’s like a mobile 69ine guy with fast arms it’s like that alone makes them better even beyond the fact that he’s very good at a lot of things that help them and then the offensive thing that I think will be perhaps paying the most dividends is when halbert’s not in the

Game actually that they have someone else who can like score in the mid post like that you have to draw that draws attention like he’s a pretty good passer you ever just five assist game or some guard or some guard who doesn’t just pull up for a floer which like is is is

Good to have but like it’s like there’s some games where like the best possession they can muster without halberton in it’s just Tyrese uh excuse me uh TJ McConnell just driving under the basket a little bit doing a little spin move to get like some space and

Getting a little floater up like yes it’s nice to have more juice in the offense more options more creativity with your lineups that he brings to the table I agree I I and so yeah there’s gonna like the thing that I’ll be the most curious about is the Pacers call

It’s not it’s not actually random like they call their offense random action that’s not true it was random everybody be confused all the time like they know what they’re doing soundss like my love life in college the random action wow anyway um anyway bringing some good old Miller

Time Podcast bad jokes back you thought I lost it surprise it will never go away so I think I actually think it could take him a sec to like like a lot of guys get traded and they go oh the terminology is different I gotta learn the terminology I think that’s true for

Everybody but I think for him it’ll take a while to like read and React to what the heck they’re doing because it’s not so structured or like a like a word is said and then they run a certain play but once he figures that out that’s when

I think it will be yeah past the point where you’re saying like oh give him time like I kind of hate saying that with a player of his talent level it’s like yeah you should be finding ways to be impactful right away but I do think in the context that they’re calling it

Random action I would like to give him like one practice of Grace yeah for no continue Dave I’m sorry oh no I just gonna say think of all the time supposed to have Synergy what was that unbelievable uh this uh the all the times that Obi toen has just been open essentially he’s

Made kind of an offensive living by we can kind of ignore him and live with maybe him hitting a few shots and maybe him doing a bat cut and getting lobs and dunks and thinking of those opportunities that he’s going to be able to like sneak in and wreck havoc is is

Pretty enticing to be able to think about too yeah um you know and then what will defenses do to compensate for that when they have to actually guard that guy not just a little bit but a lot now what happens to the rest of the offense

Um you know it’s you almost feel like a a scientist saying theoretically a better offense could be possible but is it really true something that we could do in reality like could they score more points than they’re actually scoring would it be possible for if this really truly clicks

If they have to that some turn someone that could be somewhat ignored and one of the best offensive threats on the floor while keeping the rest of the lineup intact what do they do then what would defenses do in those situations and um um I’m not real sure how defenses

Would be supposed to handle that when Halle Burton and seak are on the floor with a with a the rest of a good offensive lineup um it gets genuinely trickly to figure out what good solutions would be in those situations which just pretty awesome to see um and

Exciting to see if they can really get that quick you mentioning you know some sort of scientist scheming up an offense for the Pacers just made me imagine like Oppenheimer like as the coach or something I don’t know like that scene where he’s like some say you can’t use a

Bottle of beer to make a bomb in fact you do you know so he’ be like doing uh some say you need a a pick and roll to beat the Denver Nuggets in fact you do I don’t know anyways more bad more bad jokes from John but anyways back to

Actual that was definitely my favorite scene of that movie I definitely um you you haven’t seen up he doesn’t watch movies no it’s pretty good you do that did I like in your heart you knew that you didn’t know that he’s too busy having a life um that not Al that

Is also false but you know I would buy you as like a Christopher Nolan guy like the guy that only watches Christopher Nolan films like you I don’t know if that was you I wouldn’t be SP if you had to say like Tony only watches X type of

Films you can judge me for this it’d be Jake Hall films what you X type of films or x-rated wait what I know he’s an actor I know not a director but still I like movies he’s in he’s good are you watching Prince of Persia every Friday

No I don’t know what that is oh star vehicle I can’t say like follow his career I just like the things he’s in what a poser you don’t even know the hell out of here know box office bomb from 20 years ago and this is the last

Crossover you will ever hear as I get roasted friends on the internet back off Tony Tony earlier talked about you know there being a learning curve and you know yeah there’s he’s a professional basketball player you should be able to come and figure it out um if that’s

Gonna happen it needs to happen soon uh because this month has just been murder murder for the Pacers as far as schedule goes like every night they’re playing a playoff team it seems like and if they’re the team they’re not playing who’s the team they are playing who

Isn’t a playoff team it’s on the second night of a back toback on the road so um but you know this this homeand yeah you’re back home but at the same time time you’re playing the Nuggets Sixers Suns and Grizzlies um and yeah I know the Grizzlies don’t have drama ramp but

Still I mean this is the NBA the Pacers have lost to the Washington Wizards twice I mean they can lose to anyone they’ve lost to Portland trailers twice they can lose to anyone so you can’t take any of those things for granted and then after that home stand they’re on

The road to play the Celtics and the Knicks and then they’re back home to play the Kings I mean it’s just it the competition just does not stop in the short term for this for the schedule for this team um and you know especially with some of these Western Conference

Teams they’re need uh Pascal to catch up and catch up quick I agree does not ease up and then the trade deadlines here and stuff will happen and look they’re firmly gonna be top eight in the East just because if you look at the East standings that’s

Just how it’s gonna be I would hope so yeah getting top six should be easily their goal now after a trade like this and riddle riddle me this Tony oh is is Buddy hee on the team after the trade deadline well you are the king of transitions sir because there’s a lot of

St okay this is both a basketball question and a trade question winners and losers on the Pacers roster from this trade not Pascal sakam and I’ll say we all know tyres halbert’s a winner not Tyrese Halbert the other players on the team winners and losers and I I have a

Not basketball reason to start with two players can I do dorky trade stuff do you guys care if I do that it’s your show man yeah but it’s boring for some people okay buddy heeld expiring contract right not no extens yet why are you laughing Dave I have

Just started he was he was I don’t know I think John was so surprised that you kind of like neged yourself on your own show I think is what that reaction was he was like continue okay buddy hee expiring contract usually the the team has control till the trade deadline then

They don’t right so that’s a natural point of thinking about what to do with his future extension talks reportedly stalled in the offseason now they’re here I actually am going to put him in the winner C category because the Pacers are now over the cap going forward right

They’re over the cap right now they’re going to be over the cap in the offseason no they will not have cap space again and so they’re now in the bird rights trap for every player they have bird rights for if they lose buy healed they cannot get a different2

Million player on their team or whatever his whatever you think his value is as a free agent he’s the he is the only way to keep that salary slot whether it’s reigning him extending him or trading him for a player of similar contractual value so yes maybe they still consider

Trading him for a player with a longer deal at a similar price but now they’re more limited in that way and they’d have to consider doing it that way instead of a different way so because his salary slot is now more important to them as an

Over the cap team they have more reason to try to keep him and his value to their team as a team trying to win instead of play the long game is also now higher so weirdly even though he’s on an expiring contract and may actually

Get fewer touches on the new look team I think he might be a winner financially so what you’re saying is that if hel Burton is uh Lebron then buddy hee is Tristan Thompson in this scenario is that is that the answer yeah I love this guy just for a sign him it doesn’t

Matter just Thompson was good so I was gonna say no because buddy he’s good but Tristan Thompson was good for those cast teams so yeah it’s actually sort of Apt yes yeah winner buddy field kind of wins absolutely please keep the Kardashians away from buddy heeld in this team

Please what were you gonna say about Buddy he John was it something similar to that different than that well I mean just in terms of you could also make the the point just to kind of go along with your theme of winners and losers he I I

Would also argue that he’s a winner on the court for this because uh Bruce Brown is now gone and we saw it in that uh the Suns game he was the only guard that night that brought his brought his offensive game I know that you know people on Pacer’s Twitter wanted to

Pick on him because of uh you know there in crunch time as soon as the Suns wanted to pick on him they they did not want to they did the Pacers the Pacers go on this 110 run they get a lead with like three or four minutes left in the

Game and then just every possession after that it’s just find buddy heel on defense find buddy heel on defense find buddy heel on defense and you know buddy heel he’s he’s one of those players where what he does is good but the things he doesn’t do so great are also

Just as bad as what the things he do is good or good if that makes sense like he’s one of the best like he’s one of the best three-point Shooters in the league but his defense is so subpar it just brings everything down to this equilibrium and he’s sort of like an

Equilibrium player which is part of the reason why think he’s never played on a playoff played a playoff game before but also you give him the benefit of the doubt because the Kings have been a dumpster fire until very recently so but all that is to say is like

Look throw those critiques about his defense out of the way he is still a 40% three-point shooter in a league where three-point shooting is very very important on a team where facing the floor allowing space for Tyrese halberton to drive and create and find guys guys is important and with Bruce

Brown gone now it’s Buddy hee Benedict Maan you know Andrew nard or Ben Shepard like of those four guys right now who’s the guy that you can count on night tonight I would argue it’s Buddy hee I know that mine has higher ceilings but you know look at the one night my big

Grunt my big GP with with Ma and I’m a huge mine fan is the fact that he just doesn’t have that consistency yet on either side the ball like that Kings game he’s brilliant 25 points he’s the big reason yeah amazing game and then the next two games he’s just been flat

On his ass and he can’t hit ocean in the water um it’s just he’s the most consistent guy offensively and I think just from a playing time perspective now that Bruce Brown has gone in that trade I think he’s a winner on the court as well I think I think siakam’s second

Assist he drew two Defenders and just pitched it to a wide when buddy healed for a three it’s like oh buddy he to take that day right you have anybody he thoughts today or do you have a different winner or loser well I think that it all depends on as far as keeping

At the deadline and extending him and all that you know what role it’s going to be and the amount of money it’s going to be um there was of course the the rumor before the season that he was gonna get traded and then a follow-up rumor that he was going to accept less

Money and maybe a a little bit of a lower role so it’s you know as a guy who is an excellent bench guard that can just bomb threes that can make any bench unit score and I can step up and start in a pinch you could see that being you

Know a good role for him if they’re G to he’s almost in a way too good at that stuff because he kind of feels like man I should be starting I could drop 30 any night which is true but um I mean I I it’s possible to win a title

With Buddy hee as you’re starting guard but I think you have to r a really good other four and have that be just a cheap other option as other teams have kind of replicated that success I think it’s just there’s just ceiling there that’s one of the biggest areas of improvement

They can get is converting buddy healed into just an everyday solid starter someone who is just either solid on on both ends of the court or someone who is pretty good at three-point shooting but is at least an average Defender and upgrading that slot is the next on the

List you know four was the starting four was the number one uh of priority next priority is that locked in starting two guard and Buddy he’s in the way of getting that done so if there is a way of figuring out um you know assets that

You can get from Buddy hee awesome to get a starting to if not other things that you could do the Plug and Play and Shuffle things around that shuffle needs to happen if he was gonna come back and make like eight million a year or something

To come off the pitch it’ probably be more than that but you know what I’m saying it’s yeah another contract of 20 million a year is not gonna happen a contract where buddy hee should be that’s to take well I mean it might have from their team I’m just saying the

Pacers can’t do it I mean if they do that I think they lose him for nothing they like are in a bind of team building what’s that if they lose him for nothing they’re kind of in a bind for team building they have two really expensive players Miles Turner and a bunch of

Cheapo guys hard that’s what the trade deadline comes into play my friend you know they gotta figure it out yeah it’s like if so that’s what I’m saying if if you’re talking to him and he’s like okay 12 million year for three years like okay fine you’re okay with coming off

The bench that amount of money cool if it’s more than that I think that they would have to very seriously consider breaking it off for whatever they can get um even a possibility depending on the quality of the player if it’s a really good young player pairing young

Assets or pairing something else with him could be a possibility but you’d have to someone a good name would have to materialize I don’t see anything like on the quote unquote board right now as far as we are aware uh but I mean one way or another he either needs to not be

The starter or that position needs upgraded um I think their plan internally for a while has been mathine is gets really good and they just swap spots the question is is that gonna happen is math and Destin to be an incredible six man so to speak um can he

Come in and be the starter a lot of questions there that that probably the the biggest swing for their future really is what they end up doing at the two guard going forward between mat and Buddy hee and everything else that they could do um that’s a that’s a very big

Position of volatility right now um and they got to figure it outan go ahead go ahead go ahead I’m sorry I I was just gonna say um just to uh as a caveat to that I was just going to Echo the same thing Dave said about mine like I’m sure the Pacers internally

Were hoping that Ma would be farther along than what he’s been this year and if you look at his numbers like yeah his scoring’s down but he’s been more efficient yeah Ma’s had a good year it’s just I think what last year was so good and Pacers fans are so starved of a

First round draft pick who actually comes in and contributes right away yeah that they just maybe I think this year the expectations were a little bit too high as to where they should have realistically been um but yeah like Dave said that’s the easiest fix and you know

If madin is further ahead maybe the Pacers going to have their cake and eat it too or maybe you know they do have more incentive to get to to deal buddy but it’s just yeah I I I I’m all on board with with with Dave with uh with

Dave’s assessment here it’s you know that what whatever happens at the two guard whether it’s ma or heel or whoever they decide to bring in that’s the next big question mark they’ve got to fill here both of you another winner from of this what’s that I’m about to poo poo

Both of you I think they’re starting they have a starting two on their team right now who I would be starting at the two who is not either player you guys are talking about they roster right this second before this trade deadline this year I would be starting Andrew nard at

The two myself yeah okay I think that would make starting five as defensively potent as possible I think he’d be in the good in a better spot without as many ball handling responsibilities Dave what was your next winner yeah I mean it’s it I like n hard

A lot as a player think that that could happen I think that that’s a little bit more of a he’s sort of like um when n Smith was playing the four it’s sort of like he’s the closest to what we need it isn’t what we should have at this

Position but he is the closest to the Prototype of a player that should be in that spot that he is the best option um also compared to I I love him as a player as well I mean yeah I think that having him as the third in a guard

Rotation is incredible um and uh you know in another team that doesn’t have freaking tyres Halbert and starting that he’d be starting as a point guard that’s true no I I am I am very high on him as well and if that’s just a way to get a

Minutes but speaking of that you know you see the the vacating of that spot with uh Bruce Brown moving on I mean I we’re starting to see it a little bit maybe it’s jarus Walker another one that’s just a big beneficiary of it there’s just a minute void uh you know

Depending on who’s available and who is healthy I thought that maybe hard would be getting more minutes um in that circumstance um there’s a lot of guys that end up kind of taking a little bit of a step back minute wise just because they are deep and they have talent but

It seems like there has been some opportunity and part of it is just the wake of the uh trade and part of it is um injuries uh and the fact that halberton himself uh has uh you know he’s probably look like he’s going to come in and out for maybe a little bit

Here but they’re throwing the rookies into the mix a little bit so you know we saw of course saw some great stuff from from jerus and and you know the he is um a having an immediate opportunity with just a power vacuum they’re gonna set a

New rotation how is that going to work out if he can time it right now to go out in the court and play aesome basketball and force um his way into the rotation I don’t think that they’re going to play any favorites if he looks like he could play NBA minutes and

Impact both offensive defense he’s just going to get a roll so he just has the literal opportunity to get on the court and play well and we’ve seen some good stuff um early stuff right away and you know he’s not super far away from uh SE

Yakum he’s not a clone of seum but just the the ability to be somebody that can defend multiple positions that can pass the ball that can create on offense not at all a clone of the same player but you know a lot of the same ways that

Sakam can impact the game soen jarus so that’s a good guy to learn from and just kind of learn the ropes learn his experience see how he operates in practice and you know kind of learn some tricks off of him uh definitely probably a little bit of a better Mentor than

Obie toppen I would say uh to be able to to model his game after so um you know being able to uh see how he impacts the courts and learn a little bit from that could be helpful for him too um and it also creates that situation where you

Know U teams when they have a certain player in the starting lineup and they’re um out for an injury sometimes a less talented player comes into that spot because of the Prototype of that position and they work the same way and the offense and defense can function in

A similar way SE yakum does create once they adjust the offense and defense uh to his style of play I think creates maybe just a tiny bit more of an opportunity for jarus to be able to plug into the same systems that operate in somewhat of this of the same ways okay

I’m gonna bounce off your Jarett stuff and then I’m gonna lob to John for a second to talk about the four position first I have to finish on buddy heel by saying he is no longer renegotiation eligible because I don’t have cap space anymore that kind of makes him a loser

He could still be extended until the day before free agency and I wonder now if he’ll get to free agency and go maybe this is maybe this is the most money I can get and just sticks around because they have the full bird rights on him

And he’s an expiring contract so I will flip to another expiring contract sort of different way to talk about jarus in the four position and that’s Obi toppen he’s a restricted free agent right so expiring contract but like kind of not his qualifying offer if the Pacers sent

It out to him right now assuming he stays out of starter criteria could be just over seven million I think he is worth more than that probably as a player but there’s like a non-zero chance he’ just sign that immediately right like I I don’t

Know it’s like an eighth guy in a team I think Obby Topp has played well for the Pacers but they just traded a guard who’s in their rotation and a guy who’s out of the rotation for a forward in their rotation so there’s going to be less front Court minutes immediately

Jaylen Smith GNA play he was amazing in Phoenix he hit a he hit a fadea away two dribble jumper over Kevin freaking Durant it was sick um jayl Smith’s gonna play Miles Turner’s gonna play Pascal Sak is gonna play a lot so Obi toppen upcoming free agent Obi toppen who has

Played well for the Pacers at no fault of his own seak is better than him he’s a loser right his opportunity is smaller and notably to get yakum they did not trade the eighth overall pick at his position who’s coming up for those minutes at some point if they had traded

Jarus maybe he could feel better so I don’t I don’t think it’s like with war like War played well for the Pacers last year but Drafting jerus and getting Obi toppen for almost free like you do that right you just do that if you’re the Pacers so he didn’t play it’s not his

Fault that’s how it is I think it’s similar to Obie right now where he’s playing fine he’s doing what they’re asking but they had good opportunities to upgrade the roster and they did it so I don’t know what they would do with top and he I don’t you know they just got

Him for two seconds what’s his value now playing a little better but he’s an interesting one also as an expiring who might not have a solid la long-term role especially with jus coming up and his qualifying off for existing so I think he could be a loser both financially and

On the court because he’s going to play less and in the same vein Isaiah Jackson’s loser but in that jarus Walker Obi toppen grouping John what do you feel like about their immediate futures from this um just to stick with Obi toppen you said the qualifying offer is

Seven million uh if he does not meet starter criteria which I will not get into that on the show because we would go long time it would be seven .74 million one-year deal okay well I mean that’s that’s close yeah it is but also just given how much the Cap’s going up I

Mean how much is seven how much is 7 million I guess it all just depends in the context of how much is he gonna get tax too like every dollar they we have to worry about the tax I mean you’re right that he’s a loser in a

Sense but you know Obi toppen has validated himself and sort of Vindicated himself I mean he was traded to the Pacers for what like future second round picks like 2028 2029 two second rounders that are worst of seconds so like they’re bad seconds yeah yeah so so yeah they’re bad seconds

And he’s playing really well this year I mean 11 points per game shooting 40% from three almost 60% from the field his effective field goal percentage is 67% um his athleticism he might in terms of athleticism he might be one of the most if not the most athletic guy on the

On the team um he definitely brings a skill set that you know is valuable not just to the Pacers but I think to teams in general I think it really just depends on how the market plays out if you know if a team wants to come in and

Overpay him then yeah the Pacers would say well you know what what did uh what did um was it was it Yan mime Larry Bird was it was reported when Yan MIM got that big deal from uh the Wizards all those years ago Larry Bird was like congratulations we’re not going to match

It though like that’s like like I I imagine like it just I I imagine it depends on how the market views OB toen I think he’s valuable for sure how you know what the market is going to say about what his value is I don’t know I think and and again with

The SE yakum uh contract being brought on the Pacers like you said aren’t gonna have cap space this is a team that usually doesn’t go over the tax and I don’t know if you’re if Obi toppin that guy uh that you you’re willing to go

Over the tax on so um I guess longwinded answer to that is it just depends on the contract it really does for me does yeah I think that Obi toin is an NBA player you know that he player I think yeah for sure yeah he has has the specific skill

Set that he’s a finisher and if you leave him open he will burn you you leave him open for three he’ll knock down the shot if you don’t guard him on the weak side he will do a back cut and get an all you you know like just any

Weakness that the defense has he’ll try to probe it a little bit and he can get the ball and he can finish it at their when it starts get in trouble where he has to create or he faces any sort of real friction obviously he’s not very

Good on defense but that specialty is good and you know um being a part of any team that especially a team that needs a burst of offense if the bench sucks or if the team just in general has trouble scoring having him being able to come off the bench immediately up that

Bench’s offensive production um and then also be one of those guys that can either be a pinch starter um or someone that in a very specific matchup can kind of come in in a playoff series and kind of bust it open a little bit um you know

That basically kind of an almost like an Austin kroer sort of dude that tool that you can kind of that can put in in a specific game to be able toh to break a a defense that uh needs a little bit of breaking I mean he could play that role

And so I think that he will be in the NBA for a while I just don’t think that the Pacers of the team because of how many bigs that they have because of Walker coming up and the fact that se yakum is going to be a big minute eater

Y so you know they they got Bruce Brown and so they took dwarte and swapped him for top and like we kind of need we need to figure something out permanent at at the four so we’re gonna take over dce on this position so I kind of feel like

They need to swap it back where it’s like need chis DTE back yeah I mean literally why not Ian I like DTE um you know they they we had that’s what we needed the most so we took that one slot and the dice roll there if they have an

Opportunity at the deadline to dice roll back on a wing something that’s a little bit tilted more towards the three maybe so you know someone that um is more defensive minded if they can get that type of player um and take a dice roll on that and just either somebody in the

Same situation where it’s like it’s on that last year they’re not going to pick up the uh the the next contract so maybe they have that one year left um or maybe someone that’s just on a cheapo contract someone of that um kind of talent level

But is defensive oriented on the wing I think would be a smart thing for them to be able to flip um and so if they do keep top in at like seven million I think it’s really just about Assets in a way like sure he could play in an

Emergency but we’re also going to sign him because this is a reasonable contract and eventually we’ll find a deal for this after on December 16th of next year um uh but I just don’t really see uh a path to top and Bean a regular player on the Pacers and I

Think that he is a rotational player in the NBA and so I my prediction is that they’ll move him at the deadline for something I think that they will actually would you guys like like to humor me on fake trades Tony never does this fake trades please tell me if you

Da used to always Dave used to always roast me that’s what I’m excited about by the way I’m clapping because I get the roast some M go ahead what you oh no okay buddy hee plus Obi toppen together to accomplish the goal of getting value at the position that Dave just described

And a salary Beyond this year to keep buddy heeld s right those two in a trade package together I don’t you’d have to add pick some way I just I just found the salaries that work let me name four names for you Kellin Johnson okay okay friend of the Pacers boan

Bogdanovich okay Terry roier little B because he’s more of a one but he could play the two and perhaps my favorite of these answers but definitely the riskiest Andrew Wiggins does any of that interest you oh John’s Wiggins face was not good so someone someone someone was

Gonna talk me into the Wigan stuff and then I looked at the contract isn’t like four years it’s scary four more years it’s like that plus a Max extension for seaka I mean no it’s not gonna happen best best Andrew Wiggins is like the best three possible between halberton

And seak the problem is of his eight or nine year career we’ve seen best injur Wiggins for like 1.5 of those years but still yeah looking I’m looking at his contract now Wiggins next year gets 267 282 and then he’s got a player option in 2026 for 30

Million it’s it’s it’s just you you you you spent the luxury cash a little bit on seak here and you just don’t have it left over for wi it’s just too much I think I think of the of the best contractual ones Boon’s the best of

Those I don’t know why the Pistons would do that but unless there’s more stuff added but like that that kind of idea makes sense to me to solve all of the problems of the winners and losers discussion we just had what what what how what’s B’s contract hit me with the

Numbers to this year and next year at I forget exactly what something like low to mid 20s I’ll look it up while I’m talking that’s I think that’s actually probably a pretty good idea because I know that the Pistons want get better because they’re an embarrassment to okay

Boie is this year at 20 million and next year at 19 do it that that I think that that that makes that makes sense I think that that you know you extend it it’s not a long extension you get a little bit of a homecoming um probably have to

Include more as the Pacers I think that just healed toppen actually you’re definitely gonna have to include more as the Pacers I don’t know what though yeah I guess it’s just you know I I have no way to predict what Detroit Willer not do nothing that they doing is making any

Sense nether just Detroit so that’s yeah so I mean you know if they’re willing if they’re if they’re in I’m in you can have a second if you want anyway these are n those are ideas to solve all of the problems we have just described but

I don’t I don’t know that they should do that I’m just like if they were being if they were being exceedingly proactive in a way that like might not actually make them a better team but it’s just like contractual proactiveness those would be those would be the four names I I have

Sof spot for Scary Terry because I I I dismissed him too much too early in his career that’s a cool we all did so we all Scary Terry an apology but you know they’ve got kind of the on ball offense thing pretty covered I think and uh you know they’re already stretching guys

That are probably a little bit better Ser of the one into the two and that’s kind of you’re just sort of adding to the problem that you’re supposed to be solving by doing that um you know you add a guy like that to the team it seems

Cool but um it wouldn’t be pick I don’t think I actually have one more name go for it ironically given that we the other bogdanovich Bogden bonovich okay okay same concept then the Hawks have tax concerns so two expiring contracts could be appealing to them yeah sure so Sim similar idea using what

Was the name you thought I was gonna say John I thought you’re gonna say Gordo not a bad well you have to resign him but he’d be cheaper than what he is now so that’s also not a terrible idea but he’s more poor than that’s that’s yeah yeah definitely more four than

Three I I Haven even looked at his stat Charlotte is just not a team I’ve paid any attention to at all this year uh except for me and I watching them together before we started start that’s because like cat was going off and they still lost um I mean what’s

What’s what’s Gordon doing this year he’s averaging 14 and a half he’s shooting I mean his percentages are fine he’s definitely not the player he used to be but I mean he’s still definitely a valuable player I mean I think you’re right Tony he’s not going to get 30 m

Milon a year ever again but I I I would be inclined if I was the Pacers I’d be inclined if I didn’t have to resign him but I think the fact that You’ got bu on for another year at a reasonable deal and he’s still playing very well um I

Think that makes it a bit more yeah I think that’s of all the names you’ve listed so far I’d probably say that bu On’s probably also I’m I’m very I’m very biased obviously given his history with the Pacers you and I sat next to each other during the Boon game oh yeah the

Playoff game of all time I think of those names Bogdan Hawks bogdanovich is my like favorite favorite but he’s also probably the least likely because the Hawks incentive would just be saving money fellas we’ve been going for a while I don’t have time for any other winers and losers unless you want to

Just blur out a name as a winner and loser quickly us Miles Turner winner Miles Turner Dave cell big winner David Harrison winner one of have shots coming their way so one of them will be a loser because Bruce Brown’s 9 shot game is not enough for Pascal aam was it the

Crossover you guys hoped it would be did you have as much fun doing this as you thought you would H this was a blast I would do this again in a heartbeat if you ask me to do it miss you call me we need to get uh

This was just sort of the warm-up session for the threesome here where we just wanted to make sure everybody kind of knew the rules and got acquainted with each other but I think we did it it did it again we would we would ramp up some of the bad Impressions some of the

Bad jokes some of the movie quotes a little bit more roasting I think that we would we would probably want to crank up the Heat next time but this was good this is awesome at doing my I’m still very good at doing my bad Impressions I’ve been saving them for six years I

Got a minut it felt good it felt good hearing John kind of like uh just get going doing a Pacer Spiel it’s been a long time since I heard you string like six or seven sentences together that were just like bang on analysis it just

Like brought me right back it was a good sense memory that was good that was you talked to John it’s at halim of a game we’re like man that one play and that one player and it’s like just like halfhearted baked thoughts about a game that’s happening right

Now yes let’s do this again give the give the people give the people what they want we will we will survey the crowd I’m sure everybody’s gonna love this though if you didn’t love this please direct if you did not love this please direct your tweets to millertime

Pod he will be Fielding the complaints file tomorrow if you did love this at Tony R East is the way to to file your pleasure with this all returning if you were neutral on it at John lafet is where you your neutral opinioned internet tweets to I don’t tweet very

Much anymore but like man when I when I gave up the Pacers writing beat I had like 2,300 followers on Twitter I have like 1,600 now I’m surprised it’s even that high I I’m surprised it’s even that high I think it’s it’s worse that they followed you without you even tweeting

They’re just like you know what we’re gonna scroll through the list screw this guy life advice sometimes it’s better to just shut up right yeah I mean it’s just you know it’s it’s after a long day it’s nice to come home and just watch Pacer game and not be on Twitter so remember

If you’re out there and you want to express your pleasure please tweet Tony East we’re off the rails it’s time to go everybody I myself will’ll be back tomorrow night after Pacers nuggets talking about whatever happens in that game the home debut of one pascal cakam hope you guys enjoyed Today’s Show have

A fantastic day and we’ll see you then

The Indiana Pacers have seen Pascal Siakam for two games now. What are the early impressions of the star forward with Indiana? And who on the Pacers roster is a winner and loser from the deal? Host Tony East is joined by Dave Searle and Jon LaFollette to break it all down.

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