EMERGENCY POD! Chicago Bulls’ star Zach LaVine to undergo SEASON ENDING surgery | CHGO Bulls Podcast

EMERGENCY POD! Chicago Bulls’ star Zach LaVine to undergo SEASON ENDING surgery | CHGO Bulls Podcast

What’s going on bulls Nation welcome in to an emergency episode live of chgo bulls on peek you can follow me on Twitter at Bulls corek joined by my guys big day B bwl Sports and Mark K MK Hoops our pal producer Joey spathis working behind the scenes uh we are chore Bulls

Our guy willig go gotle is uh arriving right now at the United Center to hear from Bulls head coach Billy Donovan pregame so hopefully we’ll get some more Intel and updates from him but in the meantime breaking news for Bulls Nation broke uh not quite an hour ago Zack

LaVine will have season ending surgery on that foot that’s been causing him problems all season long thanks y’all for joining us hit that like button if you’re here on YouTube hanging out live wow uh backbreaking news and it comes just five days away from the NBA’s trade

Deadline with all kinds of Zack LaVine trade rumors and speculation circling does this rule out any remaining likely that Zach get move between now and February 8th that certainly seems like the most likely uh resolution to this part of the season um awful news for Zack LaVine awful news for the Bulls and

Bulls fans uh initial reactions Mark what’s what’s up buddy yeah I mean let’s be real like there’s probably a million thoughts that went through my head when the initial news dropped um we were getting wind of it a little bit beforehand let’s say and uh yeah it’s there’s a million things to

Think about because there’s been so many things going around with Zach All Season whether it’s on court off Court there’s so many permutation to what this means for now for the offseason for the years to come like when you process everything that this potentially could mean and

When you go down that rabbit hole or that Wormhole I suppose of what this all could mean like that you can quickly get into a dark place which is where I’ve been for the last 15 minutes um which is why I’m glad we’re having this conversation now to to talk through it

But yeah it’s not ideal no matter how we want to cut it up no matter what angle we want to take this from or frame it it’s it’s it’s bad for the Bulls let’s say that it’s bad for Zack LaVine he’s had a horrific season in in many

Different ways let’s say um and this is just the I was it’s not the perfect way to end it because it’s obviously not perfect but it just adds to what uh has been a miserable season to Zack or for Zack I suppose just perfect way to cap

It in that sense that you know bad becomes worse for Zack unfortunately and ultimately for us as Bulls fans uh yeah uh bad winter works like he’s out for the year that sucks and I I I like I’m I kind of like you too M I have a million different things

Kind of going in my head right now and I’m just trying to grab the the thing I want to say and not even the right thing just the thing I want to say um but I will say this like this feels like a move um that Zach did um when he heard

It just feels like a moov he did to ensure certain trades wouldn’t happen and I’m not even mad at him for it honestly a lot of my anger and me being upset is going towards the front office honestly uh right about now I’m not even

Mad at at Zack for this stuff I feel like I feel like he kind of got put in this situation um even though he put himself also there I’m not saying he didn’t ask for the trade of course he did asked this and they tried to find him once and

He went about it the absolute wrong way because he went about it the Harden route without the Harden cache so you can’t it’s not going to work that way but when it started coming down to the media telling you that Zach isn’t worth a dime Zach isn’t worth a quarter uh

We’re not giving you anything for him even though we know how skilled this dude is we know he’s a 50 40 80 guy we watched him just have incredible games Time After Time After Time After Time After again I guess in my head I was

Just like well fine like if they want to feel like that then they should just hold on to him and and I don’t I didn’t see the reason to force a trade you know for February 8th if something came up cool fine they make the trade but I

Didn’t see the reason to force it when it was GNA be something that you did in the off season and it feels like Zach didn’t feel that way it’s like oh so y’all really trying to just let me go to Detroit and out of here for nothing you

Know what I’m going to get this surgery that’s what I’m gonna do I’m about to be out on some months and you all can make your decisions about trades and things you know during that time I don’t like how I just don’t like how a lot of this

Stuff is being handled uh in the front office man I really don’t it just feels like and I don’t know this for sure this is just speculation I’m just going again like I said I have a million thoughts in my head and I’m just kind of just

Spitting them out uh right now but it just feels like they kind of were bullied into this idea of we gotta trade them we gotta trade them we we got to trade them we got to get them going we got to get them out of here and by any

Means necessary well nobody wants them well fine let’s see what Detroit will give us we’ll fine we’ll take whatever you got kind of situation where I’m just like man you could have just held on to that and and then just made this trade in in an off season and we know Zach

Wanted to be traded that’s fine he don’t have a no trade clause but now he has one now because this surgery is like fine this is my no trade clause I ain’t going nowhere this is that where I want to be so I don’t like this but yeah I

Have a lot of my stuff right now is towards the front office bro and I just don’t I I just don’t I don’t like being handled at all I just don’t like it joining us now from the United Center it’s our guy will the go gotley will

Uncore gotle for all of his updates uh will I’m guessing Billy has not met with the media yet uh leading up to tonight’s game uh what what exactly is the scene and the vibe like over there what can you tell us uh yeah we’ll talk to Billy

At about 5:15 so hopefully get we get some more updates then D and Terry also got injured last game we’re not sure if he’ll be playing Kobe white popped up on the injury report with an ankle so hopefully he’ll be good to go but that was questionable um but yeah I mean this

Season just could not be worse in terms of injuries for this team right now and you know obviously you never want a guy to get hurt like no matter who it is that just injuries suck it’s a horrible part of the game but it is a part of the

Game and uh it just feels like this the idea of like getting resolution on this whole thing is now just never going to happen or it’s G to be at least until the offseason but like my first thought is I mean the the timeline is four to

Six months so even if he does get healthy in that time frame um like if teams are worried about his injury history trading for him now like even if he’s healthy heading into next season is that going to be a thing like I don’t know what the Bulls plans were bigger

Picture but this is really making life hard on them it’s obviously horrible for Zach and just like the idea that he now has to go through this and he can’t move on with his life um and and for the fans that like kind of want to close the

Chapter on this or for people that at least like want to change the roster whether it’s Zach or Demar or Cru or whoever it just feels like now they are going to be in a holding pattern so obviously uh five more days until the trade deadline half an hour before we

Get to hear from Billy so obviously a lot can change more information will come in but it just feels like another death blow to everybody involved in this situation it just it really sucks and obviously like I don’t want to Closs over for Zach too I mean that’s just to

Now have another surgery to miss a full season way people are talking about him the way the narrative has changed against him to not be able to like come out and prove that wrong with his play that’s just got to suck for him so uh just really awful for all parties yeah I

You know people in the comments of course some people are C joke some people kind of believing in The Conspiracy Theory you just laid out Dave as far as like hey maybe this was Zach’s choice because he heard and was hearing that the one real possible destination

If a trade was going to happen was the Detroit Pistons and he had no interest in going there Saucy 8 saying Zach really didn’t want to go to Detroit so he got surger surgery honestly I understand and then of course people also speculating in the comments about if this means anything domino effect

Wise with what the Bulls plans were between now and February 8th um you know the man’s Nigel saying by dear by vuj people talking about Caruso potentially getting traded in the comments dear whoever it might be Mark do you see this as something that would uh you know

Alter whatever plans that AKA and everle may have had in place because for from my perspective it seems like they were preparing to just battle out and grind out the rest of this season and hopefully go to the playin tournament with or without Zack LaVine and I don’t

Know why this news whether it was Zach and his people leaning towards this surgery choice or the Bulls and their medical staff actually suggesting it and being the ones to shut him down because they didn’t like what they were seeing on the trade market I I don’t know if

Any of this changes what they already were kind of planning to do which we had heard from a few different areas was don’t expect any major roster shakeups they’re gonna they’re going to ride this out can I can I just cut in for a second

And push back on this one idea that like Zack is doing this to prevent getting like surgery is always the worst case scenario you want to put that off by any means necessary like guys do not just like go under the knife to go under the

Knife or change there like I I just I think that he obviously was hurt the first time he came back and the last couple days we’ve heard like the foot is now the issue with regards to the angle that he sprained like this is this is

Not just like a joke injury or anything like he’s clearly doing this because he really needs it and that’s yeah I just I don’t like the idea that people are kind of talking about this like it’s some sort of conspiracy theory no I think that’s fair but I

Think I understand also why people might be speculative about this um so I I I completely agree with you I don’t think this is fake I don’t think this is a leverage play or anything like that Zach probably wasn’t getting traded regardless irrespective of Detroit being the only Suitor because Detroit was

Seemingly offering the Bulls very little that the Bulls were interested in anyway so assuming Zach doesn’t get hurt or doesn’t need surgery that deal probably doesn’t happen anyway because you know Detroit wanted to to buy very low and the Bulls didn’t necessarily want to sell that low so he probably wasn’t

Moving regardless but I also understand the sentiment in some respect because and this is how probably I’ll remember this Zach season is he’s allowed uh with this whole trade stuff let’s say he’s allowed the naysayers to be very loud and we’ve talked about that before and that’s where I’m disappointed

In the whole situation whereby we as a podcast here more generally have been Z defenders in many different ways but because of his actions on the court off the court with the trade stuff it’s allowed people to feel a certain way those naysayers have been embolden and in this situation now where something

Like this plays out knowing who his agency is where his who his representation is knowing his representation was in New York yesterday talking to the Knicks it’s not it’s not a far flight to fly from New York to Chicago to to to close this one up too so I understand why that speculation

Exists I don’t necessarily agree with it but coming back to Matt’s question around like what does this mean I don’t know if it necessarily changes anything for the now because the reporting seems to continue to suggest has always suggested that Demar and Caruso weren’t going anywhere I don’t think this Zach

News really changes anything this this offse sorry this trade deadline because they probably were positioning themselves to be without Zack LaVine in some shape or form what this does dramatically do is change what you can be potentially in the offseason and Beyond because we’ve talked about the

Tax crunch that is coming fans are probably sick and sick of Will and I talking about these the the cap situation and going through models and the numbers and all that sort of [ __ ] so uh unfortunately fans you’re probably going to hear more of that to be honest

With you because Zach’s number in the offseason is 43 million we have to consider this as as as a as as an issue that’s probably not going anywhere because he wasn’t going to be moved at this at this deadline now with this news to Will’s point before like who’s going

To want to trade for him in the offseason that means Zach’s number is going to be on on the books that has flowing effects for what you can do with guys like Patrick and Demar D rozan and these sorts of guys uh because the the tax the tax limitations that this team

Has or this ownership has so it has dramatic impacts on what this team will look like potentially in the off season and what their Flex flexibility opt or optionality does look like because now you you can’t move in pretty much that that option doesn’t exist so how does

This remodel your team like that’s probably what we’re going to be talking about for the next four to five months like what are the the permutations of this but it dramatically changes everything in the offse OR at least has the potential to dramatically change everything and enough for the better

Yeah it’s a crazy position uh to be in right now and to what you were to what you were saying will because I definitely uh was saying that about the conspiracy theory um my thing was how can I put this excuse me my phone went off sorry that was some family stuffff

But my thing my thing with Zach is I don’t think obviously I don’t think he just went under the knife to go under the knife nobody wants surgery especially nobody wants foot surgery or foot or knee nobody just wants to do that I get that looking at it

Optically that’s what it looks like and that’s what I’m pointing out here that’s exactly what it looks like uh just looking at it from the outside end like oh man I can’t get this that we’re fine you know what I’m shutting down I’m done you know what I mean I’m finished I’m

I’m out I I’ll get a 100% get back to at least 100% and get everything on me correct and then get back on the floor and the reason it lead leads lends Credence to that is how this whole thing kind of started with how he was playing

Before when he first mentioned yo I kind of want to uh explore trade options you know with the team and then watching how he played and went about that [ __ ] that leavs Credence to to people having this kind of ideology on it so that’s what

How they kind of look at it like I saw what you did in the beginning so why would I not put that past you on this now I don’t think that’s what it is but optically when you look at it like that I could see why that conclusion can be

Drawn that definitely went through my head for sure I would be lying if I said it didn’t that definitely went through my head like oh man but I don’t think Zach’s that kind of guy or or that kind of player but I also didn’t think he

Would be that kind of guy that I saw to start the season either so things can change but yeah the whole the whole thing sucks and it puts the Bulls in a really as Mar said just a really tough situation uh in that offseason because I believe six

Month is what August for Zach if that’s what it so man that’s what that’s only a couple months to to get ready to do any man this is that’s this is tough and I’m I’m interested to see how they move forward with this uh situation now I

Agree with you mant I don’t think it affects anything that they wanted to do as far as you know going to the playoffs and you know get or getting to the playin and you know competing and doing you know things like that and it removes

The idea that Zach is even going to come back so it kind of takes you know for lack of a better word it takes that burden off of other players who might be thinking Zach is coming back to uh get in this game and do something so it

Takes that kind of thing away but now it’s like okay well I really don’t think you’re making any kind of Trades now you know now I really don’t think anything’s going because you clearly don’t want to get rid of Demar you clearly don’t want to get rid of so and I don’t think

Anybody else has any kind of value that anybody around the league wants so if those two dudes you’re you’re like I don’t want to get rid of because you want to you know try to try to make this play in then I think this is the team

That we’re gonna have going forward and this is what the Bulls are gonna be uh Colette Beckwith in the comment said I don’t think it’s that Zach would get surgery just as a power play but if he had the choice to get surgery now or later his current situation may have

Encouraged urge him to choose now over later which you know like I I think that there is some logic to that line of thinking that it wasn’t necessarily Zach saying I’m I’m gonna have elective surgery that I don’t need to have because I don’t want to get traded to

The Pistons in a few days I I like I I agree with you will will on that like I think that that’s a wild notion but maybe if this is something that was something that he could have found some alternate non-surgery shorter term resolution to to then address this in

The off season much like we saw Zack play through an injury at the end of uh you know that 2122 season when the Bulls were playoff bound even though he was playing through pain and then had that arthoscopic procedure in the off season and I think you know some of that

Frustration and even speculation for Bulls fans comes back to I I can’t find the comment but somebody was talking about the the lack of transparency when it comes to the Bulls PR and injuries and injury updates and how it never seems to be the way that they initially

Tell us that it is whether it’s Lonzo ball or Zack LaVine or anybody else but how many different kinds of updates and timelines have we gotten with Zach and originally it was foot inflammation and then he came back for seven games then it looked like he just you know rolled

His ankle and then just the other day it was like oh actually no like it’s not the ankle his foot’s bothering him again and then bam a few days later he’s done for the year like I mean like are are bulls fans crazy or or all NBA teams and their fans just

Destined to do this frustrating tiptoe around what’s actually going on with medical updates of players because this kind of stuff has happened for years and that’s why Bulls fans are frustrated and that’s why Bulls fans poke holes in stories that they don’t believe yeah I’m just saying like when

Guys get surgery there’s always a chance that like that’s the last time they play like I think Ser surgery is a very serious thing so yeah maybe they were holding out and hoping that he would get traded and then deal with it in the summer maybe they weren’t sure if they

Needed it at all and now after you know whatever procedure like who knows but I’m just saying I I don’t take the the surgery thing lightly and I it definitely functionally serves as a like trade restriction like nobody’s going to trade for him now um and so it blocks

Any trade to any team that he didn’t want to go to but I just yeah I think the risk with with doing surgery is always pretty extreme and I I don’t want it to seem like that I think Zach is just like doing this for revenge or something re yeah it’s no Revenge

Surgery right no yeah it’s not a Scotty Pippen situation right right exactly you know we know he needed obviously if you’re hurt you’re hurt and if you need the surgery you need the surgery again I’m just talking optically and how it looks and the timing of all this which

Is something the Bulls have never been good at if stuff optically and timing of things whether if the intentions are true natured or not optically it never has looked good and when people are looking at it around the league and those things like that’s just how it

Come out like it’s like having a a meeting out the first game of the basically the first game of the season and as you as we said many times it wasn’t a team meeting that they kicked Billy Donovan out of but optically that’s what everybody saw you know

That’s what everybody just looked at and that’s why they saw they ran with it for a week and that’s just what they went with man so yeah it’s just the Bulls are really just bad at these things with Optics you know what I’m saying like they don’t they don’t get this stuff

Right yeah and look perception isn’t always intention uh and that’s to to Dave’s Point here so this may not have been Zach’s intent uh to go under the knife for this for this reason uh to avoid a trade or you know make it a leverage play but perception is

Sometimes what it is for a number of different reasons a lot of times without beyond your control but coming back to the whole Bulls thing and the medical staff thing and the lack of transparency and all this sort of stuff and and coming back to the water point of a

Million thoughts flying through your head where my head went to after this as well was like Patrick is out right now with with a foot injury too that was an ankle injury and then you know he was he was playing through it then he wasn’t playing through it he was moving through

Things and then he wasn’t uh then oh all of a sudden hey the dude’s in a boot and it’s like okay when when did that happen and now it’s like uh he’s out for two weeks but the minute when the the balls announced Patrick was out for two weeks

For all the reasons You’ noted Dave it’s like I don’t believe this like we have a a months years decades long history of this team just doing some shady stuff where with the whole you know the way they handle the the way they handle the injuries but also the way they handle

The coms around all of whatever happens with their players and the injuries and those sorts of things so again perception versus intention maybe that’s they’re not intending it for it to to come off a certain way but the their lack of transparency at times leads to speculations leads to leads to questions

And if you’re not providing answer to those questions and people are you know whether they’re right to speculate or not I guess we can disagree on that or not but it’s going to happen and now I’m doing that now with Patrick because this Zack news is somewhat out of the blue uh

The Patrick stuff is somewhat out of the blue in terms of what we’ve heard thus far but based on what we’re seeing with Zach it’s not too far to make the leap now on like what does this mean with future injuries we’ve got the and the

They added irony to this as well like Lonzo has meant to speak to um Stacy and Adam tonight during the second quarter of the Bulls Kings game tonight so on the day the dude that’s been missing for two and a half years is making an appearance on the broadcast to seemingly

Talk about his recovery a thing that we have heard very littleit about they dropped the news that Zack is out for the rest of the season with a four to six months with his foot injury oh by the way Patrick’s also out for how many weeks with the

Foot thing and anytime I hear foot and anytime the it comes back to the bulls having to do something notable with some sort of injury related to some extremity I get nervous so I’m very nervous maybe I’m I’m wrong for speculating about that too maybe they’re not connected maybe

It’s not going to be an issue for Patrick but uh again that’s a thought that I that crept into my mind uh we we got tons hang here I was gonna say will I know you got uh immediate availability but just wanted to get your final thoughts uh before you before you hop

Off yeah I just think we’re gonna have to kind of wait and see here obviously we’ll get some answers from Billy in the next couple minutes and stay tuned we will have you updated um they haven’t really had a chance to like give any real information about it so yeah I

Think Patrick with regards to his injury he will be kind of reevaluated over the next couple weeks and we probably won’t hear anything until after Allstar break which is kind of the the initial time frame that they gave us um and they’re just kind of letting it heal we’ll see

What’s with Kobe and dalan and yeah I mean this unfortunately this season is just becoming defined by injuries and that is never something that you want so we’ll have more information for you guys soon appreciate it will thanks for hopping on man Bulls fans follow will for his updates willor gotle he’s gonna

Go talk to Billy Donovan right now before tonight’s game and we’ll hear from will again in postgame tonight after Bulls Kings we got a few super chats thank you everybody for hanging out with us hit that like button we got over five well over 500 people hanging out on this breaking news emergency

Episode of Cho Bulls our guy the Duke with the $20 Super Chat I asked the Raven will the Bulls ever be as they were before quote The Raven Nevermore and my Bulls fan Hope from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor shall be lifted never more never more

Edgar Ellen Poe AKA the Duke uh who also said with a super chat will lock the door or put your pants on at least I’m guessing if he was uh you know putting in hours at the United Center will was wearing pants let’s let’s not throw that kind of speculation on him uh

Richie D Breezy with a $5 Super Chat saying get better soon Zach interested to see what the Bulls do at the deadline now thoughts keep up the great coverage guys appreciate you Richie um yeah I mean obviously that’s where every Bulls Fan’s mind is right now with this kind

Of news breaking how if at all will it affect what the Bulls front office was thinking uh when it comes to that deadline that’s just five days away and I mean you know we’re still hearing you know I was listening to the most recent low post they were talking about what

The Bulls should be doing versus what they might be doing but that there are tons of teams out there who want Alex guso and that the Bulls from all of his various sources are saying the same thing to any team and there are several calling the Bulls about Caruso which is

You can’t have them we value Caruso too much we still have him under contract next season on another very Team friendly salary uh for a team that will probably again next year be trying to find some way to just stay barely below that luxury tax line and whether it’s

Him or dear there were a few other new rumors going on about dear and maybe the Sixers being interested in dear maybe even offering up first round draft Capital kind of offers and then that same report was sort of like retracted I don’t know there’s weird stuff going on

That’s how it always is this last final week leading up to the trade deadline and I I’m not saying that necessarily this should be some kind of wakeup call to the Bulls front office just like oh Zach done for the year because as we you know noted earlier they it seemed like

They were very determined to make their way to that playing tournament whether or not Zach was out there playing and we saw this team scrape together some wins without him and then he came back and they won and then since he left again they’ve also managed to win a couple of

Games they don’t look great but they at least look capable of being a playin team because the bottom of the East is trash and I don’t think that that’s going to change between now and Thursday no in some respects they’ve kind of left it too late in in some or in some

Respects because I mean you you you spoke about like the other teams behind them like Toronto already had made their move to to get worse Atlanta maybe be doing the same in the next few days I would assume Brooklyn may may be doing the same thing because they’re not going

Anywhere like if there’s a team that’s more mid than the Bulls let’s say then then it’s the Nets they are extremely mid and then if even if you want to go backwards can you overtake the the the Nets the the Raptors the Hawks but there’s no chance in overtaking guys

Like the the haunteds or the the Wizards or Detroit Etc like so they kind of are stuck in this situation but the real Point here is what you touched on that like this team over the last 30 games I keep I keep talking myself into this as

Well but they’ve been a real team for the last 30 or so games and by real I mean I don’t mean you know Championship level contention or even a real playoff team but they’ve been a good respectable team on both sides of the ball for the most part more so on defense than

Offense but they’ve won 18 over the last 30 games yeah sure it’s been a somewhat easy schedule through that stretch but because they’ve done what they’ve done without Zach because they’ve been winning more than they have been losing lately we know how this franchise thinks about

You know 14 and9 records or whatever it might be but this is a greater sample a 30 game sample where they’ve won 18 of their 30 Games ak ak can easily talk himself into thinking okay we’re probably going to be without Zach in some respects regardless now even if we

Moved on from him for just expiring deals and guys that might not even help this season we were probably preparing for a life without Zack for the remainder of the season anyway in same some shape or form we’ve want been winning more without Z than we have been

With him anyway let’s just continue doing what we’re doing we value dear we value kuso we want them here I don’t I don’t see any reason for us to expect this to dramatically change what the balls will be thinking about at the deadline now maybe maybe this does

Dramatically change the thinking I don’t know maybe it does just because of the long-term ramifications but based on everything that we know about Mark uh Everly of tourist kind of Chau about ownership there’s no reason to expect anything to change in the next few days now if does call maybe they get that

Wakeup call maybe they do maybe they do change their philosophy but based on the information and the variables that we have on hand today there’s absolutely zero reason for us to think they’re not going to continue to try what they’re doing right now they could easily talk themselves into getting a seventh seat

Like as much as we want to say you know sell sell Caruso sell dear try to you know be 11th or 12th in the East and reset around Kobe there’s a good argument for that and I’m not saying I support the argument of trying to be the seventh ceeding the Eastern Conference

But there’s an argument for it and based on all the the way we know this team operates or this franch franchise operates you can be best be sure that they’re convincing themselves that hey we’re only three games behind the heat here we can get to Seven we can get a

Home play in that’s Revenue dollars if we win that if we win that playin hey we’re in the playoffs we can get some playoff game playoff Revenue through the doors as well so that’s where their mindset is at so there’s no reason we should be thinking about anything different from this season’s

Perspective I agree I agree with a majority of that um as you all know many many as y’all know I want to go to the postseason as y’all know I want to go to the postseason every damn year yeah every year I want to go there um the

Difference is this for me whether you got you got Caruso and dear for me you’re still a playing team if you don’t have Caruso and you don’t have dear you’re still a playing team I think the Bulls are the same kind of thing without those guys which is why I

Wanted I was trying to get Caruso traded last year and I still want Caruso to be traded because I’m like you can get some real value back for that which is why I have no problem about you trading demard de R rozan because why not get rid I

Shouldn’t say get rid of but why not trade Demar de Rosen and then not have to go through this offseason of having to even fathom giving him a bigger contract to come back older and in his decline in his season why not even get aead of things like that because going

To the play regardless of this and for me I want to go as I’ve said because I want it for the young guys those are the guys I’m talking about the Kobe IO even Patrick and you know those guys dalon like I want them to know that the

Baseline in the floor for this team and how they play is we go to the postseason that’s kind of where it starts as we go to the postseason I’d like to have that in their mind I don’t want that losing philosophy in their mind because once

That gets in there it’s like a virus that [ __ ] don’t leave my prime example is Zack LaVine that is the prime example for you right there Zack LaVine don’t know how to do that he knows how to revert back to when it’s losing he does and some of that’s his and some of

That’s not some of that he just hasn’t had a team put around him some of that that’s just what he does when he steps out of bounds in the fourth quarter or turns the ball over because he’s trying to do too much but regardless of what it

Is this is the dude who hadn’t won four games in a row in his career he wasn’t about that life you know what I mean he he didn’t understand it he still it’s still not on his resume I want that for the young guys to understand like no

Dude we go out here and we at least try to win and we get to some kind of level for the young guys the older guys are who they are that’s what it is you can still be this playin team that I’m talking about with without Alex Caruso

And without Demar D rozan or either one of them on your squad will you be a seventh I don’t know will you be a a 10th I don’t know but but you’re there because of what Mark and and Will was just saying because the rest of them

Dudes that’s uh competing with have made their decision about what they want to be and who they are and they’re like we’re not winning we’re cool with this Toronto has made their decision Atlanta’s about to make that decision you know de Charlotte we all know that whatever those teams we know where they

Are so the Bulls are the only ones that are like okay we really want to be it for that fine great I’m with it let’s go get it but you have to be smart about some of these moves that you’re making and not always thinking with your heart

On this these feel like heart moves and I have no problem with heart moves but you got to have your brain in this [ __ ] too you can’t just out here make these like no God we gotta have this it’s got to be this right here and fight for this

That kind of [ __ ] no man you can’t go at it like this that’s not how it works yes you should play with uh toughness and you want those kind of guys on your team but you have to see what’s in front of you you have to see that big ass wall

That’s right there in front of you and say maybe I should stop and go around it instead of saying maybe we should just go through it and it might work and it might not but no dude it’s still a wall avoid the Wall go around that [ __ ] I

Don’t know I’m saying all this to say it’s okay to go to the playin it’s okay to go to the postseason but you don’t have to have these super veterans on your team to do it you can get some other assets and continue on this road to a playin

Um people in the comments uh Derek saying if they go to the postseason it only validates what they think which is that continuity and more of this is good enough and I think that that is a fair Counterpoint Dave to what you are saying and there’s you know some truth to that

Too of the value especially some of the younger guys can gain from going and having a postseason experience and you know me I still don’t see the playing tournament as post season experience they would need to win their way out of it to get real postseason experience uh

Hey if you want to go get spanked and lose in four games in the first round being my guest personally I don’t think that helps anything as far as where this team needs to go from here uh Mark you just dug up the official press release on lavine’s injury update uh from

Nba.com uh and the Bulls section of that uh website and there is some interesting wording in here as we were discussing earlier with Will how the Bulls and Zach and the medical staff and Zach’s people came to this decision of surgery here it is word for word after seeking

Additional Medical options uh I’m sorry after seeking additional medical opinions in consultation with the Chicago Bull training and medical staff guard Zack LaVine and clutch Sports Group have elected surgery on lavine’s right foot as the next step in his recovery process surgery is anticipated the week of February 5th LaVine will be

Out 46 months updates will be provided as necessary so that I mean maybe you don’t want to dive and read too much into the way that that is worded but I agree Mark the wording there is like that this was one of a few different possible Avenues they could have taken

And they elected surgery rather than well you must have surgery yeah again coming back to the point like it’s up to the individuals now to choose how much they do or don’t read into these things and again com again coming back to the point around the lack of transparency this is

Literally I was going to say a paragraph but it’s almost not even a paragraph it’s like one or two sentences maybe one or two sentences is a paragraph at this stage but the way it’s framed the way it’s written you can read into it however you want and again that’s a

Problem the fact that you can read into certain things in certain ways leads to speculation leads to thinking uh a lot of different thoughts and which is why you know it is what it is so it is interestingly worded clearly based on the way it is worded it does sound does

A read at least to my eyes and ears that Zack and clutch had the final say as to what was happening and when it was happening and again you can read into why that may or may not be the case but that’s based on the report that’s been

Published by the Bulls that Zach and clutch had the final say as to what’s going on with him whether it was surgery or not when that surgery was to occur they they were ultimately the one signing off on it and maybe that would be the case regardless because it’s his

Career it’s his management they should be the ones ultimately be signing off again you can read into it a number of different ways but it’s just interesting the way it’s been framed officially by the team um and released via PR and those sorts of things so it just adds

And you know adds to the speculation fuels those thoughts let say and that’s you know Dave that’s the I think really frustrating point now if you hadn’t yet already resigned yourself to the fact the Bulls were not trading Zack LaVine or making any major trades between now and the death headline I

Think you were a little bit behind catching up with the rest of us the bigger concern now is what this does to Zack lavine’s trade value this summer because you’re talking about a guy who is going to miss the back half of the season and then need the offseason to

Recover from this surgery and how many teams are willing to gamble on a guy who is coming off of yet another surgery and has that much money left on his contract because and like we touched on this in in a recent show when there was some update about Zack LaVine and his trade

Market value that he seems to have gotten this undeserved and unfair label as an injury-prone player just because of the initial ACL tear injury that he was recovering from when the Bulls got him in that trade for Jimmy like you know eight years ago the the thing that

Is most concerning to me is that this season with him saying early on okay fine let’s let’s find me a trade partner I’m ready for this divorce too he doesn’t play well then gets hurt comes back briefly gets hurt again and is now being shut down with season

Ending uh surgery to me that is the biggest problem here because a guy who had done his solid and like creditworthy work to get past that injury-prone label even though some Talking Heads never acknowledge the fact that he was tough as Nails playing through surgeries playing huge numbers of games played a

Bulls career season High number of games last season but now because of the way that this all happened and the way that this is going down that injury-prone label is here to stay and it’s not going anywhere and it will impact his already low trade value I think you’re right I

Mean and with it I think you all are also correct with the wording of that you know saying that he’s elected surgery you know I just talked about Optics and how bad at at this stuff man for for a team and organization that truly cares about Optics they really

Suck at it like it’s really really bad a Ring of Honor ceremony celebrating the legends of the franchise they just it’s just continuing to BGE Optics and you know I think most people like most people like myself I don’t care about how it looks but I’m

Not naive to what it means you know what I mean like I understand what it means and and and what comes with it and those things like that and I know that they care about optic and if you care about it you would think you would be better

But they’re not they stink at it so yeah you’re right though Matt like being out with this surgery now being out four to six months will just add to that label of he is injury-prone with a big old contract and that’s that’s it’s that simple and the big old contract for me

Is the real one I I never believed at any point in time that any of these teams thought or cared that Zack was quote unquote wasn’t a winning player I never believe that for a second for me it was just strictly about the money because you know they’re looking at

Bridges and Charlotte all right what the hell does he know about winning but this dude is being looked at at Phoenix and other teams and all and all stuff like that he don’t know nothing about winning but his contract is nicer you know what I mean and on those kind of levels so

For me it’s not about a winning player it’s about his contract it’s about this money adding this to it makes it optically look definitely worse because now you’re injured with all this money on top of you and now you come in with this stigma and now they can put those

Other things on you now you can really start attaching those other labels not a winning player haven’t seen him do it in the postseason haven’t seen him do it you can really start adding things to it like that it’s just all around bad it’s a it’s a horrible bad situation uh for

This for for Zach and for this team when I wrote in that article that I thought Zack lavine’s career was on the line when he came back this is kind of the thing I was talking about I was like it could easily be something that the seam

Teams look around the league if he comes back and plays well and he stays healthy to that trade deadline he could really you know maybe get moved to where he wants to go if it didn’t work out I I was like well it’s not going to be good

For him or anybody in the Bulls because they’re not going to give you what you want and you might not get anything at all and you might end up with him still being there which is obviously something that he doesn’t want and and they don’t want and I’m only saying that because

They were trying to make a trade since the season kind of got started so obviously they want to mutually separate but they’re not being able to do that because of this kind of stuff man it’s just crazy you know what I mean like this stuff just optically is bad you

Know when it when it rains it pours kind of situation uh right here for the Bulls and you’re right uh Mar about now being worried about Patrick Williams and his things like that because that’s something I wasn’t even thinking about before but I think you’re absolutely 100% correct no but you’re right like

You’re 100% correct like you’re absolutely right on that I’m like oh man you’re right like because the way that’s being presented is kind of the way stuff like that has been presented to us when we find out guys are going to be out for a longer period of time like if whe it

Came with Zach whether it came with Lonzo whe it came with whoever that’s how it always has been presented to us I hope it’s not that of course I want pass it back on the floor he’s like a wolverine when it comes to Healing he’s young so he can heal up but it

Definitely becomes a concern of of of things like that but yeah man they just that baded Optics in this whole situation and this whole injury is just really really bad yeah yeah I mean and again where my thought went from this as well we we’ve been talking about this deadline and

Look I dare say over the next four to five months six months we’ll be talking about what this means for future years but the contract is what the contract is and what the contract is is you know 130 yard million left after this season three more seasons the last year being a

Player option for 49 million there’s a trade kicker in there as well if I’m not mistaken of 15% something like that clutch negotiated the bag for Zach they had the leverage in those conversations which is why it was always getting the max but it it does hurt now and this is

Where it comes back to hurt the balls more generally going forward because my thinging wanting to move on from Zach was it was a way out in in many respects if you wanted to go rebuild you could if you wanted to add pieces to continue trying to win and be that playing type

Of Team follow that ethos that the uh that ownership has that managers management have been talking about then cool you could do that too you had that optionality whereas now assuming well Zach wasn’t really some someone that was wanted regardless before this it’s absolutely not going to be moved at this

Deadline probably not going to be moved in the offseason that means that $43 million that’s on your books for next offseason or in the next offseason is likely to remain there if Lonzo isn’t medically retired or doesn’t come off the books for for that reason too in

Addition to guys like V Kobe Caruso IO Javon Carter dalon Terry Julian Phillips guys that are probably staying around that’s $125 million in likely to be guaranteed money there’s some player options in there there some partially guarantees in there but assuming that that’s all picked up that’s 125 million

Uh the seller cap next year is 141 million that’s a Delta of $516 million that’s before you even consider what you’re doing with the Rosen or Patrick Williams or Tory Craig or Andre Drummond or any other free agent the point being the Bulls are likely going to be an over

The cap team next season and they’re going to be in a really tough situation where if you can’t move Zach and if lonzo’s on the books one of D rozan or Patrick Williams or someone else is likely gone because the math just does not add up the the contracts do not add

Up at this stage you’re probably looking at a roster where if if you try to bring everything back where it’s going to be north of $180 million the luxury tax next season fors is $171 million the Bulls ain’t going over that so this has dramatic dramatic uh permutations as to

What this means in a lot of different ways now coming back to the point before around like does this change their their thinking at this deadline probably not because they’re still trying to go into to make that play and run but what it does mean is for someone like dear like

They might not trade him now because maybe there isn’t a trade to really make sense to to or that’s more valuable to tr made trade demand now compared to trying to hang him on and and try to win a playing game get in the playoffs with

Dear but what it may mean is you have to lose dear and if the Bulls don’t want to lose dear whether that’s right or wrong they might need to just because of the the fact that they won’t be able to move Zach and maybe Lonzo so this is where my

Mind goes now it has long-term rebuilding effects in different ways and again semantics around rebuilding but this Zach contract if it was undesirable before I don’t even know what the word would be for it right now because it’s no contract is immovable yeah the Bulls could get off it if they really wanted

To but what it’s going to cost them to get off this now is uh extremely problem problematic yeah and you know I see some people in the comments kind of you know saying oh like this this Zach contract was a mistake from the beginning uh eco

Be who’s uh one of our regulars always hanging around never has sounded like a Zach believer uh Fernando I think also chimed in saying like you know only pack has ever believed Zack was a franchise player I okay if you want to play the the hindsight game right now this exact

Moment Zack LaVine and the contract the both signed him to appears to be a real problem I don’t think it was a problem when they signed him to it and I think still it was the right move give given their limited options he was coming off of two

All-Star appearances and one of the most efficient scorers and basically a 255 and five guy for like a few years I never said he was gonna be the best player on a championship contending team in fact I routinely said I didn’t believe he could be that that didn’t

Mean it was not the right move to sign him and then maybe if and when you feel like you need to move him you move him knowing that that contract will continue to look a little less ugly as a salary cab continues to rise assuming his play

Stayed where it was which was you know quasi All-Star level Play Because guess what that’s the money that those players make now this is not about Zack lavine’s contract and the the hindsight of whether or not it was a mistake two years ago it sucks that that’s where we

Are now and that it appears to be a very immovable contract it’s immovable now it might not be immovable in four to six months we will see um you know it’s it’s it’s just a shitty situation but one that again like if if you wanted to say injury-prone as an argument against

Signings act to that contract two summers ago I don’t know I I think it was a weak argument at the time it was look and look we failed at trying to convince people at the time that this is why he’s a max player but even then people

Couldn’t get it through their heads that not all Championship leveled guys not all first options not all top 10 players get max deals people are in their ideas for whatever reason that a guy like Zack who’s at that point a top 25 top 30 guy an All-Star level guy not a Allstar

Starter but a fringe Allstar guy people at that point just couldn’t get through their heads that that type of player is worth a Max contract more generally but specifically in the bull situation within the Bull’s context and The Leverage that he had over the bull so at

That point in time when things were going and flying for Zach even then we couldn’t convince people of it so now again like like we touched on before like the naysayers been embolden about things anyone who thought he wasn’t worth a Max previously is now beating their chest about it and maybe they’re

Right about it now but the variables do change I hate this idea that people’s opinions can’t change as context changes another very important thing that’s happened a new CBA when Zach signed his max deal no one knew what the CBA or the content of the

CBA would be or how things would or how teams and and players and everyone connected around the C CB would react to it no one knew what the the first and second apron would be and what the punishments for that would be as well so

Yeah you can stand on your soap box and say you were right about it all along but if you want to ignore the variables or the context of how it’s changed in addition to the fact that you know Zach has helped it change in the way he has

This season in addition to the injury itself do what you need to do uh stand on your soap box and yell if you need to but U if you’re doing so without uh taking into context the variable that have maybe moved since that point in

Time then I don’t know you look kind of ignorant but do what you need to do I suppose Mario P with a super chat appreciate Mario saying where does AK go from here should we hope for gems in the draft even if he tries continuity because continuity is on the injured

List at the moment um again that’s that is the unfortunate position that AK finds himself in now and while I am res finding that I respect him and his work less and less every passing week I also don’t envy being in his shoes because now and look

Did AK build this mess that he now finds himself in yes there absolutely is that element to this and I I’m struggling to find any sympathy for the Bulls front office right now because they have been so stubbornly adamant about we’re going to flirt below that luxury tax line

Because the owners have said we’ll pay the luxury tax if you’re a championship Contender but right now we’re just trying to be a team that makes the playoffs and they’ve moved the goal posts and lowered the bar for the last three years of media days stating what

The goal for this team is ahead and that’s frustrating and that’s why Bulls fans are pissed and now you’ve taken a pretty rough situation and it’s like the wheels have fallen off and we’re five days removed from a trade deadline where Bulls fans are about to watch yet again

As this team’s front office does nothing as far as hoping for gems in the draft hey at least the Bulls have their own first round pick in the 2024 draft class yippe you know you still got that 25 pick owed to the Spurs uh from the Demar

Sign TR hanging over your head which is why some of us were like hey let’s look at let’s look at this team let’s be real about it and then maybe let’s try and acrw some assets here at this trade deadline instead of marching proudly and confidently towards that play in

Tournament which means absolutely dick so yeah it’s a it’s a shitty day it does not mean dick I will never agree with you on that ever that’s some [ __ ] ask the Miami Heat if it mean dick that don’t mean dick it means something when you go to a Goddamn play

In game it means something I do want to say this the other part of that match is the arrogance of AK and Mark everley that’s the other thing that Bulls fans were pissed at was the arrogance of it you I know you remember when he was like

Hey just watch the moves I make just look at the moves I make guys and then Judge Me by those we looked at them and we were like still shitty like still me still average still cool you didn’t do anything like what are you doing and

Then and then say well we’re done right like no absolutely not so that arrogance also is what is maddening to Bulls fans because you can’t come at them like that and then do then just be average and mediocre and doing the same kind of thing and then act like was supposed to

Patch you on the back for that hell no hell no AK definitely played that you know just you weight line from Alexander Hamilton’s Rous song like oh oh y’all are a little uh impatient and upset it’s cool just wait and see what we do in free agency

Oh co hi hi Javon and Tory Craig welcome aboard yeah we’re fine now we’re fine with continuity now um speaking of uh just got an update Billy Donovan speaking right now to our guy willig go goly and the rest of the Bulls beat Tory Craig will play tonight against the

Sacramento Kings Craig back in Action so you know maybe kind of softens the blow a little bit of this Zine news I’ll take anything at this point Kobe white also as will mentioned when he was with us uh popped up on the injury report uh he is

Dealing with a sore ankle issue of some kind but he has been given the green light as well so there’s another Silver Lining to this horribly bitter pill Bulls fans just got this afternoon speaking of the Bulls uh and their fans shining Ray of Hope this season if you haven’t got it yet

Go get yourself our newest Cho Bulls merch at the Cho merch Locker it’s the sub ZT it’s great flying off the shells I just ordered mine yesterday and uh Dave as you mentioned depending on sizes some of the stock is already getting pretty low like we’re talking two or

Three left so yeah you know if if it’s really popular and it looks like people are buying these uh you know selling like hot cakes maybe we’ll put in another order with our people who run our merch over in Denver shout out to them appreciate the and wonderful work

They do grab yourself a sub Zer T and uh we got Bulls Kings on Deck tip off in about um 90 minutes uh no pregame had to jump on here and do this emergency pod so we’ll talk to you live post game uh from the studio we will hear from will

Who is at the UC covering tonight’s game mark thank you for hopping on and joining us man always a pleasure follow Mark Hoops ah I love it uh big Davis at B bawl Sports where CH Jo Bulls on bulls thanks everybody for watching with us

Hit that like button on your way out if you haven’t done it yet we really appreciate it and we will talk to y’all for post game until then see red be good yeah that Peace we all sitting like the mayor

The Chicago Bulls season has hit an unexpected bump in the road when it was announced that 2 time All-Star Zach LaVine will undergo season ending surgery on his foot.

The Bulls had previously been exploring the trade market for the high scoring guard. How will this effect the rest of the season and the Bulls’ trade deadline moves? Matt, Mark K, Big Dave, and Will break down the news on this emergency edition of the CHGO Bulls Podcast.

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