Dejounte Murray makes sense for the Orlando Magic | Magic vs. Heat, with major playoff implications

Dejounte Murray makes sense for the Orlando Magic | Magic vs. Heat, with major playoff implications

It is the biggest most important game of the Orlando Magic season at least until the next one but this one’s actually pretty big while magic heat matters more plus the final stop on our trade deadline tour why big deal for dejonte Murray is not farfetched it’s time for

Locked on Magic you are locked on Magic your daily Orlando Magic podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team Everyday and you are indeed locked on Magic today is February 6 2024 my name is Philip rosik I’m the expert and site editor over at orlandomagic.com course follow me on Twitter Philip rrd on today’s episode of a lockon magic the Orlando Magic play a pretty darn big

Game while the Magic’s game against the Miami Heat matters more than just extending this three-game win streak will dive into all the playoff implications for this game an episode that will surely make Matt Moore very very happy we’re going to talk tiebreakers coming up here in just one

Plus we make the final stop on our trade line Tour talking about Deonte Murray what the trade Deb what the trade market looks like for the Atlanta Hawks C and why I deal with the magic is not farfetched we’re going to get to that

Coming up here in J but first we want to thank you for making lockdown manic part of your day every day no matter when you listen to us whether it’s first in the morning whether it’s right when we upload we truly appreciate you making lockdown magic part of your day every

Day remember there’s a great lockdown podcast covering every single team in the NBA to search for lockdown and the team you’re looking for the lockon podcast Network it’s your team every day today’s episode of lockdown magic is brought to you by FanDuel make every moment more right now new customers get

$200 in bonus bets if your best bet of if your first bet excuse me of$ five or more wins visit fanduel.com lockon to get started today we’re gonna get to uh the trade deadline tour we’re gonna talk with Brad Roland of lockon hawks coming

Up here in just a moment but I would be remiss if we did not lead Today’s Show with the big game the big deal the big thing that is happening for the Orlando Magic on Tuesday yes the trade deadline is on the horizon we’re going to talk

Plenty more about it later in this show and then all episode on all all episode Wednesday leading into Thursday but this is a big game uh and I don’t want to oversell how big this game is because it is still an early February game but this is a big game with a lot

Of playoff implications the way the standing set up right now the Orlando magic Indiana Pacers and Miami Heat are in a death struggle for the final spot in the playoffs to avoid the play in tournament the Indiana Pacers currently sit at 28 and 23 that is a half game ahead of the

Orlando Magic who sit at 27 and 23 who are one game ahead of the Miami Heat at 26 and 24 these standings are going to change a lot over the course of the and then the magic now a 4game lead over the Chicago Bulls at 23 27 also very important these

Standings are going to change a lot over the course of the next 32 games but we at 30 we’re at the 50 game Mark right now we can start to see that finish line over a horizon and so every single one of these games against peers is really important now I mentioned tiebreakers

Shout out to our friend Matt Moore at the Action Network as well as lock on nuggets um I mentioned tiebreakers the magic have already won their tiebreaker against the Pacers they have one more game against Indiana that’s coming up March 10th in Orlando at the Kia Center

The magic at heat though the magic need a win on Tuesday to tie the heat uh in their season series The Heat beat Orlando at Kia Center back in December a game where they scored 17 on answered in the second quarter that was really the difference in the game then a

Three-point win on a bam a bio jumper um a couple weeks back at CA Center they came back to the Kia Center uh and Orlando was able to get a huge win holding Miami under 100 points this is another opportunity to tie the Heat and begin to assert themselves it’s not just

That a win gives them a two game advantage that can be thrown away pretty quickly what a win does here though is it sets up some very realistic tiebreaker scenarios first off you lose the season series you got to finish with a better record than the heat um that’s

Like a game in hand uh you know that that that’s that’s like a game in your pocket um you know the heat don’t have to have a better record than the magic if Miami wins this game on Tuesday uh tie it and now we get to the fudgy stuff

Now we get to those second and third tie Breakers among division teams which the magic and heat are in the same division division and and we’ll get to why this is actually the tiebreaker here at a minute um division record is the next tiebreaker the Miami Heat are currently

10- two Orlando is six and4 those four losses two to Atlanta two to Miami Orlando still has one game against Washington one game against Washington remaining and three against Charlotte um within their division so there’s still you know you win this game you’re seven and four Miami’s 10 and

Three you obviously have the ability to make up that ground now why does this matter well this is why winning the division does give you a distinct Advantage this stuff matters if the magic heat are tied obviously the division you know if the magic heat are tied and they both and

Their the season series is tied the division records will determine who eventually uh who eventually who eventually wins a division that matters if they tie Indiana because remember Indiana’s only a half game ahead of Orlando in the event of a three-way tie between Indiana Orlando and Miami the first tiebreaker is division

Winner y’all thought divisions didn’t matter y’all thought the Southeast Division was a silly little thing this stuff matters and so the the magic have to put themselves in a position to win the southeast first off we want to win the southeast because it’s a nice Banner

That we can hang in the Advent Health Training Center um and it’s a that’s a nice you know feather in our cap we get these we get the NICE T-Shirts we won the division in 2019 we’d like to win it again and end the heat Supremacy over

The division over the last decade um or over the last Almost decade at this point um but again if the magic want to avoid the playin they’ve got to give themselves every out it’s like poker every out they can have to do so and so it starts with setting themselves up to

Win the division and they can’t do that unless they beat Miami on Tuesday now I’m not going to sit here and pretend that this game will have a playoff atmosphere CA Center is a great atmosphere it’ll be a Tuesday night instead of a Friday night like the last

Time but it will be plenty rocket and and playing on the road is is always tough and always difficult anyway um and so I’m not going to see to pretend this is going to be a playoff atmosphere it’s probably not even going to be like the atmosphere that the magic had at Kia

Center then Amway Center um when they played the Celtics in the n Season tournament that felt that was obviously a big game because it was Black Friday it was a afternoon game so special tip off uh inseason Tournament game it it it had it it felt big because of the

Manufactured in season tournament but it felt big and we pitched it like a big game this game though against Miami is just as big as that one it may not have the Do or Die consequences but this game will have lasting ramifications to the end of the season to April to that

Playoff choice and as I always say on this show we are always thinking about April we are always thinking about the playoffs and the magic are going to put themselves here in a position to set themselves up for the postseason set themselves up for the playoffs and that

Is of course all you can ask for the magic are playing really really well right now on a three-game win streak Miami had won two two straight after uh after snapping their seven game losing streak um they lost to the Clippers on Sunday this still a team that’s

Struggling a little bit offensively so if the magic show up on defense at the end of a long road trip and show up on defense the magic could very well put themselves in a position to win this game they’ve proven they could compete in Miami they did so undermanned against

The Heat couple weeks back this is a big game and so we are going to watch very very carefully and closely to see if the magic can pull this one out we will have complete coverage of that game from CA Center on tomorrow’s episode of lock up

Magic but the rest of this show we’re going to talk trade deadline why the all-in move for Deonte Murray is not far-fetched we’re g to dive into him as a player with Brad Roland of lockon hawks coming up here in just a moment but first it’s time for quick

Worth ref friends over at FanDuel happy Super Bowl to all who celebrate from FanDuel America’s number one sports book if you’re like me the big game is all about scoring the best seat on the couch grabbing your favorite football snacks and placing some super bets I’m always

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L before we get to our conversation with Brad Roland of lockon hawks I want to remind you that the NBA trade deadline is Thursday that’s probably a good place to start uh since we’re getting ready to talk trade deadline here in a minute but locked on fantasy basketball is your

Place for live reaction start Thursday at 1 pm Eastern Time subscribe to locked on fantasy basketball on YouTube today so you don’t miss Josh lyd breaking down every NBA trade with analysis Insight you can only get from from locked on fantasy basketball part of the lockon podcast Network your team every day now

Let’s dive into deante Murray with Brad Roland of lockdown Hawks and I am joined once again for the second time this season by our good friend from lockon Hawks Brad Roland uh Brad uh how’s it going I know Saturday was was a little was a lot how how you

Feeling after Saturday’s big win Saturday was a lot there was a lot going on in general the Hawks one four in a rows you and I are talking and they’re uh they’re playing better so that’s interesting it’s been a very strange season in Atlanta but a little bit

Better Vibes right now than there were a week ago uh I probably shouldn’t have dated the show as as I just did um for those that are for those that are listening but you know we we we have to plan things in advance Atlanta does play

Monday so the story lines change game to game that’s how things go in the NBA but uh Brad it’s obviously the big week it is trade deadline week Thursday is is the deadline this will run before then I can promise that um uh but uh Atlanta’s

Kind of the eye of the storm it feels like with a lot of things um you know there’s been some big deals that have gone down already you know seum to Indiana is probably the biggest one uh but as we get closer to the trade deadline it seems like everybody is

Waiting to see if Atlanta makes the big move of trading to Jon Marine it feels like he is the biggest star that is at least available heading into the deadline Atlanta I believe is sitting in in ninth or 10th in the Eastern Conference they’re still I they’re 10th

In the Eastern Conference I believe uh still but um they’re still able you know if any team is capable of winning the playing tournament from the 10 seed it’s probably this Atlanta team with the weapons that they have including Deonte Murray and all and as Miami showed last

Year all have use get in the field where where does Atlanta stand you know obviously this changes hourly probably minute by minute maybe but probably not that probably not that frequently but uh where does Atlanta stand as far as what they’re thinking of doing with d Jon

Murray as we get closer to the deadline yeah I I think it’s really it’s fluid in a way that is maybe not the best process all the time like I think it’s possible the Hawks might NE not they’re not going to pull them off the market but I think

They might be less motivated because they’re playing better which is one of those things that happens in the NBA I think it’s kind of short that that’s kind of a short-term Focus thing that I don’t love process-wise to just change your direction really at all based on a

Four or five game sample size but they have one four games in a row as we just talked about and um I think the consensus around the league is has been all year long that the Hawks are better talent-wise than they’ve played this year and I and I agree with that so that

That process is a little bit strange but I do think in general this really the whole roster outside of Trey young and Jaylen Johnson is available now there are varying tiers of available I think Deonte is clearly the biggest name that’s available for the Hawks um he has

Lots of suitors the Lakers Etc all that stuff um he’s still out there I’m sure they will be happy to take calls and for the right price they will move him they’re asking for a lot and that makes sense he’s a really good player but um I

Think they’re kind of in this wait and see and they’re trying to at least hold their cards close to the best right now and say that they’re not desperate to trade him which is just good you shouldn’t like you shouldn’t uh sort of posture yourself in a in a bad in a bad

Situation but I think they they’re certainly willing to trade him if the right offer comes along yeah and and and for those that that know that don’t don’t know or realize it’s not like there’s a rush to trade him you know he’s yeah he’s got $8.2 million owed

This season then he’s got a four-year extension that kicks in next season that get it’s up to that starts at 25.5 million so it feels like for a lot of these teams the Lakers probably even the magic this is the window to try and get him because then it becomes much more

You know it’s you’re G to pay it on the back end but then you got to pay more on the front end as well to get him to get him uh get him next year if you wait for the summer and that’s why I think there there’s probably a little bit more

Urgency from a team like the Lakers that doesn’t have you know they’re they’re capped out they don’t have a lot of room you know I think you know the Knicks have been one of those teams that have been rumored uh rumored there and obviously it’s good to have a market and

And you could extract as much as you can especially considering how much the Hawks paid for paid for Murray um from the magic fan perspective it seems like we’ve seen Deon Murray at his best hit the go-ahead bucket of game winning essentially the game-winning bucket in

The game in Mexico City hit the buzzer beater in Atlanta a couple weeks ago you know he he feels like an all you know not an maybe not an All-Star this year but an All-Star level player why has it worked out in Atlanta between him him

And Trey young is is it just a matter of you know they’ve had some injuries they need some time to to get the roster in shape around them or is there just something that that just doesn’t mesh well between those two yeah it’s really interesting because

You know I think people the consensus is now that the Hawks are not at least Overjoyed with the way it’s gone and that does make sense they haven’t had huge success like this is a team that was kind of in the same spot than it is

Now before they made this move and when you make a big move like that trading two three picks you want to get better and they really haven’t gotten better that isn’t the fault necessarily of Murray by any means like he’s still like you said a really good player and it

Hasn’t been a disaster like that’s I think there’s a maybe narrative out there in some circles that like they can’t play no they’ve done okay together it just hasn’t changed the world that that they were hoping to I think the most simple way to put it is that Deonte

Murray is at his best we’ve now seen that in Atlanta um where he has the ball in his hands and he’s kind of playing point guard it’s not necessarily as clear as that but they with Trey Young is the point guard he’s the best initiator he’s their best offensive

Player Etc that and that’s not going to change I think Murray is so much more comfortable is the way that I put that like more assertive um you know he’s just in his element more when he has the ball and he’s kind of running the primary action he’s the guy with the

Ball in his hands now the counter of that is that on a lot of teams he isn’t necessarily good enough to be the unquestioned number one on a good team um you kind of need a setup like maybe with with the magic have honestly someone like Pao and France to be next

To you um or maybe LeBron and La Etc I think that would maybe work better but if Murray is your shooting guard which is kind of what they’re playing him at in Atlanta a lot of the time he’s a little small for that defensively he’s

Not he’s done to his credit I want to make sure to say this he’s done a good job buying in and taking more catch and shoot threes he’s improved his shooting like he’s kind of done what you needed to do off the ball but I think in the

End they’re not the most natural fit they never were and I think the Hawks the more negative side I suppose is that the Hawks were hoping that he was going to fix their defense on the perimeter and that has not happened so he’s not been as good defensively as they hoped

And offensively it it’s okay but I think Murray’s still at his core an on ball point guard and that’s just kind of what he still is it’s all you know I think this is a concern that the magic have a lot of teams I think have this concern

Having too many of the same guys like almost like you know John Collins was probably standing in the way of Jaylen Johnson and what he’s been able to do this this year and you know I think a lot of people criticized the John Collins we because it didn’t feel like

Atlanta got a lot in return but it was almost a little bit of addition by subtraction to to give Jaylen Johnson this this much room to breathe and it almost does feel like that’s kind of the issue where you know Deon Murray has been trying to fit

In and Trey young look Trey young is a really good player he is uh unique and and and you know he needs the ball in his hands the ball you know the world kind of revolves around him it it it just you know from an Outsiders perspective it feels like they don’t

Maximize each other and it’s trying to figure out okay how do we maximize and every team trying to do this with their Stars the magic are trying to do this with with poo and fron and and figuring this stuff out how do you maximize your best players to make their lives easier

But also get the most out of them and help them get the most out of the people around them and if a guy doesn’t fit as an off the- ball guy next to Trey young that’s that’s kind of hard yeah I think that’s a good way to put it like they

They’ve done a little bit better this year playing off each other Quint Snider’s been a little bit more Innovative I was on record and still am that the previous regime and N McMillan was like the worst possible coach for train Jon not in a way to to bag on Nate

But just that he’s a very old school like your turn my turn there was a lot of that and they’re already kind of leading toward that anyway so you want to have some more uh Innovation to kind of have them play off each other and again it’s been better this year at

Times Jon’s played well he’s shot the ball well it’s just that there’s something in the back of your mind and I think that’s been reported out there the Hawks are just kind of like you know we’ve seen enough of this to realize that if if nothing else this is not

Going to take us to where we want to go I think that they are not panicked about it like as we started the conversation they don’t have to trade him now he’s under contract it’s a good contract it’s a favorable one in this new cap environment but they are just kind of

Like signaling like you know what we did this move um I’m not sure that they would admit this I’ll say that and so they don’t have to they over they overpaid in the first transaction uh I said that at the time so it’s not even revisionist um it would have if it works

You know this if it works nobody cares about the price you paid if it works it works yeah but when it doesn’t work to the point that you want it to you look back and it’s like hey they probably give up a little bit too much for that

TR for that transaction so they try to recoup some of that back asset wise and this is not a hawk show but it is what it is like the Hawks are kind of at least in their signaling ready to kind of go in a different direction on the

Whole even if it’s not a total dis because it really has not been a disaster it’s just that and the Jon’s played well it’s just that the fit’s not perfect it’s it’s the whole thing if nobody wants to be stuck in the middle like like and that’s where the Haw I

Mean Hawks have been three years in a row now they have been about as mid as you can possibly be want the magic have played well against Atlanta but I can tell you this Orlando Orlando Magic fans don’t want to be in that seven eight game against Miami lose that 78 Game

Host Atlanta and face Atlanta because because they’re in a single elimination game they are still extremely talented and extremely dangerous and you know we we’ve obviously played three really competitive games so far this season two were last second shots from dejonte Murray the other one went to overtime

Like it is this is still a really really tough out you know even if their record isn’t where they they want to be let’s take a quick break so I can tell you a quick word from our friends over at betterhelp who sponsor this podcast look sometimes we all need uh this this

Next segment is brought to brought To Us by our sponsor at better help sorry I have to read that one sometimes we all need the opportunity to get something off our test big or small certain things can really start to get to you it’s important to let that out especially to

Someone who’s unbiased in life sometimes we just need that that neutral ear to someone who is going to be in our corner and just listen so today I want to say how I really feel about something you might even be thinking about the same thing this week I am someone who works

Really really hard so and and and I know for me I’ve had to work very very hard to take some time for myself so what did I do Monday Monday I had my mental health day I went to Epcot that’s what I that’s what I do on my mental health

Days I go to the theme parks I know some people don’t get get it but it’s just nice to just kind of walk around be free not think about anything and and ride some rides I’ve gone through therapy several times to get to try to help me

Kind of quiet my brain get things off my chest and allow me to enjoy life therapy can help you do this too therapy can be different for everyone everyone has different needs most of us have bigger problems in our favorite sports team and it’s important to get things off your

Chest every once in a while it’s literally like unsoldering a burden if you’re thinking of starting therapy give Better Health help a try it’s entirely online designed to be flexible and suited to your schedule visit betterhelp.com lockon NBA to get 10% off your first month that’s betterhelp hp.com lockon

NBA um I wanna I want to jump now over to kind of the the magic fit you know you mentioned that the magic seemed like a team that that you look at as as a team that would fit to jante Murray we’ll we’ll get to you know maybe trying

To construct a framework for a fake trade here in a minute but you know obviously I think everyone recognizes the magic need a point guard um you know a true point a true point guard in a lot of ways you know markl folz has been a

Good place filler but he’s got some very real shortcomings that prevent the ma again same thing prevent the magic from maximizing their their young Talent um when you look at this magic team how do you how would you see dejonte Murray fitting in and what strengths would he

Bring to to what they’re trying to build here yeah so if if you ask me in a vacuum where Doon would fit best on a good team so not on a not on a like where he in San Antonio when he made the allar team he yeah he was he was he was

The sun moon and stars on that team and his numbers were great but that team was not a real they were not a good team um on a good team he needs to be in my opinion the point guard but with other top tier guys preferably on the wing

And or Center like it’s not like I think if he’s your best guard you’re fine but you need to have a guy who’s preferably better than he is on the wing somewhere Etc I think he needs to have the ball a lot he doesn’t have the ball Hees have

To have the ball his hands all the time and I think Orlando um you know the whole league on my side of things I’ve been looking for teams that would a have already show interest in Jon or B maybe I think should and I think Orlando’s in

The should category I think it’s like he fits there I’m not saying it’s perfect or that there’ be no flaws but um I think an on ball guy who can get his own shot he’s really good late in situations his his improved shooting is big for Orlando as I’m sure you’ve talked about

Before you don’t want to have a non-shooter there marel is a virtual non-shooter at the point guard spot it’s it’s not virtual non-shooter it’s Rudy goar is guard is guarding him and and roaming and is not concerned about him at all and it’s weird because you know

Deonte if you look at his career numbers as a three-point shooter they’re bad but he is not the shooter that he used to be in San Antonio he’s not you know he’s he’s always been a good mid-range shooter and now he’s really become at least for this year much more of a high

Volume um three-point shooter and he’s been pretty good at it um the Hawks have done a good job with him pushing about three-point line he’s still comfortable in the mid-range he loves a mid-range jump shot I’m sure he he actually admits that to be honest it’s not like he

Doesn’t hide that he likes that range but he will let it fly from three in a way that Orlando needs as an onb guy he’s a solid enough passer like as a point guard he isn’t a special passer he’s a fine passer um but that’s kind of

All you need they have other guys that do think you know pal pal mix blaz Etc so um and then defensively too while I’ve been critical of his defense in Atlanta I have to admit that he’s not been particularly good I don’t think I think he is better if he is the point

Guard on defense I think his his skill set plays up better there he’s a playmaker he’s got great hands he’s always been a big steals Guy which Steels can be overrated but it does help you when you have a guy who can kind of get deflections and all that stuff and

He’s pretty good at that so situationally roster around him I think he fits pretty well in Orlando um would you want the shooting to be a little bit more proven Maybe maybe but I think that I buy his shooting now more than as being closer to his real talent than it

Was three years ago when he was like not a great shooter does that make sense yeah that that that makes sense and like uh look I I’m I’m someone and I I know I’ve said this on my pot a million times and I don’t know if you would agree with

This this statement or not um your ability to honestly it’s it’s I think de with defenses it’s not necessarily your ability to shoot that matters it’s the perception of your shooting and and I think that because like you know I go down the magic list Paulo’s been a

Better shooter this year you know fron has been shooting 40% from three over his last seven eight games um you know Jaylen Suggs is a 39% shooter the magic you know are the second worst shooting team in the league but they have guys who are taking taking threes

And making them at a higher rate than they did last year but they’re right now they’re taking so few it doesn’t matter they’re taking so few making so few it doesn’t matter and so to me I think one thing to Magic have to get is guys who

Are at least perceived as good shooters or at least perceived as threats where I can’t leave this guy because if I’m too far off him he’ll hit a shot and beat me or if I’m too far off him he’s going to drive right by me as I try to if I try

To close out and and get to get to the shot you know the magic right now just have too many guys who just the defense is go ahead and shoot that I I I don’t I don’t really I don’t we don’t really care at this point um and they’re not

Taking enough of them I mean I think they’ve had three of their last four games they’ve taken fewer than 33s which is fine for them I suppose but you know we’re going to get playoff series and the magic might shoot 10 for you know 10 for 25 from three and that’s great the

Other team’s going to make 18 and that’s going to be that’s gonna be the game and that’s that’s you know that’s where the magic have to start thinking about how do we get better is building that kind of offense and obviously you know I I think when you look at this magic team

What they’re looking for are guys who can do a little bit of everything you know they want to be able to switch you know switch defense switch on defense especially so having a bigger guard like Deon T buur that’s their wheelhouse that’s what they’re looking for that’s

Why they drafted Anthony black you know that’s why I think they still stick with markl folz because he’s he’s big you know he’s not tall but he’s big yeah um you know they they want to be able to just just envelop guys you know you mentioned the Steels thing they’re very

Big on deflections and forcing turnovers they’re they’re you know especially if they somehow have Jonathan Isaac behind behind them they’re fine overplaying and and extending pressure knowing that they can clean up on the back end and so uh you know I definitely think Murray is a guy that at least

On the surface fits what this team’s trying to do he can run the point he can calm the team down which is I think a bigger thing that this this young team needs especially he’s another scoring threat which is another you know just just takes another bit of pressure off

Of Pao because you know Pao sees a ton of double teams um they run a lot of stuff with fron on the same side just to try and convince the defense not to to crash down on him having another guy like that it would be huge especially

With the passing that this team has and you know I I’ve said this I think to a lot of to a lot of people offline I’ll say it officially on the podcast if the magic were to go make an Allin move this this uh trade deadline or even into the

Summer because the magic are still a team that I think could make a deal in the summer if it came to that dejonte Murray is I think the guy I would at least the guy available on the market who I would push my chips in for who I

Might push my chips in for a little bit and and say okay let’s bring in a third star qu star caliber player and see where this takes us because obviously the magic are looking for a point guard you know we’ve done pods here on this on

My on the lock on Magic trade deadline tour with Malcolm Brogden with tyus Jones markl folz is a free agent this summer I think I think all of us sense that finding a point guard is the next step for this team or the next need to

Fill for this team as they try to figure out what this actually looks like and so the highest end of that is is dejonte Murray at least that with what’s available right now um to that point then um from a team building perspective because I don’t think orl and Atlanta

Was in a different place I think when they got dejonte Murray than where Orlando Orlando is right now you know that obviously Atlanta coming off the high of the Eastern Conference Finals trip um in the 2020 season I think 21 they they they lost in the first they

Lost in the first round or they did they lost in the play play in they had a they had a very so like you said the confence finals run and they had a a pretty spectacular first round loss to Miami in which um I’ll do the short version Miami

Miami Miami them Miami Miami them but also in a way that they they threw three guys like literally three guys at Trey young and it was so obvious that the Hawks had nobody else to beat Miami and they overreacted but reacted appropriately in some ways like hey the

Solution was we have to find another score and they went and got Jay Murray to kind of check that box so that’s that’s kind of that was the timeline and so to your point it’s the Hawks had already been there and they they had fallen back and that kind of makes you a

Little bit more desperate than when you have him in there at all if that makes sense Orlando still on the ascent and the Hawks were not yeah exact exactly and so so like that’s one of the reasons why I don’t think Orlando is ready to

Push push the chips in but I I think I want to get this perspective then how do you know when it’s time to push those chips in and go all in because because they like like you’re because you’re right like I remember that series they were sending three to Trey young it was

Just like the Hawks need to give Trey young some help they need another guy who can handle the ball handle the ball maybe you handle the ball you know kind of help him out a little bit like John Collins wasn’t doing it obviously um the Hawks you know had been close to the

Mountain top and were trying to get get back there they put a lot of assets into dejonte Murray they put a lot of chips and and and you know we we’ll talk a little bit about compensation here in a minute but the Hawks it feels like are

Expecting to get try and get some of that back if they’re going to move Murray how do you know when when is the right time to make that kind of Allin move it’s a really interesting question because it’s some of that is organizational like how much do you

Believe in what you already have is this the fight piece is this the second second to last piece like part of it is like okay let’s just fast forward for a second and say now you have Murray now what are your internal expectations are you expecting this move to make you a

Title Contender because that that’s a big jump obviously from where they are now and um they’re in this phase at this moment and I’m sure you talked about a lot on your show where it’s like yeah they’re going to probably be in the playoffs this year but what does that

Mean like do you want to see what this team looks like in a playoff series before you make the big move or do you want to go ahead and do it now and this interesting balance because I agree with what you said before Murray on paper

Like makes a ton of sense for them especially looking at the market right now when the free agency or lack thereof of guys are going to be available at that spot the needs like he’s he’s cost controlled it’s even if you don’t love Murray it’s a good contract it just is

So and if you think it and if you think it isn’t just wait till the new TD TV deal comes and that’s the why that’s why I’m saying that like it sounds like a lot of money it’s four years 114 million but like it was only that number because

That was the most he was allowed to sign if he had been able to get more than that on extension he would have gotten more than that he he actually signed a very cheap contract to San Antonio that kind of capped him anyway um when do you

Go all in it’s an interesting question because I don’t think Murray’s gonna make Orlando like a title container I I don’t think that but it does allow you to fortify the clear weakness that they have at that as far as positionally right now it helps the scoring it helps

The shooting a little bit um and it doesn’t cap you long term like if it doesn’t let’s just say it doesn’t work you can move him like it’s not like you’re in this spot where you’re locked in forever to this terrible um I won’t use any players as a comparison

Contracts just do not be mean but it’s that’s a deal you can move so uh when you go it’s it’s there’s not an easy answer I’m sure there everybody wishes there was but there there just isn’t one it’s and it’s all about something that’s

Really hard for you to know or I to know on the outside it’s like it’s all about like front office team building and how do you want to frame your upward trajectory because you also speed up your reputations I know this uh I don’t know how Orlando fans are handling right

Now I think this is kind of a it’s been pretty linear so far like they’re just getting better and they’re getting better and that is actually a lot of the fun part is when you’re on the when you’re on the way up but the first time speaking of someone who covered the

Hawks the first time you overachieve there’s danger and overachieving yeah the Hawks were not a top four team in the league when they made that run in the Congress finals and yet once you do that your ownership and your front office you’re like hey we’ve arrived and

The Hawks had not arrived it’s just that they caught they caught a few breaks Trey was awesome they made the run and that’s the scary part is that suddenly you have your balances out of whack so I think that keeping things in line was is the most important part about about like

When you actually go all in because or not even going Allin like it’s kind of a there’s an Allin and then there’s like a Phoenix Suns Allin like there’s there’s definitely uh yeah there’s definitely levels to this yeah yeah and and and like look and this this is a point that

I’ve made repeatedly like this magic team honestly like I I’ve said this to everyone like the magic need to get into a playoff series with Milwaukee with Boston with Philadelphia I mean maybe not Philadelphia anymore but uh they need to get into a playoff series and get their butts kicked against the real

Team y yeah against the real team in the playoffs like like they like they don’t know what Paulo and frons are yet because they don’t know what they need to work on because they haven’t been in a playoff series uh to see okay this is how these guys are gonna this is how

They’re going to defend us this is how they’re going to double us and like look the magic needs shooting when they get into that Playoff Series this year they’re probably going to lose in five if they get it to six that’s that’s almost a coup um unless unless they

Somehow get into the four five game which I don’t think they’re going to at this point but um but they’re they’re GNA play a real team that’s going to break them and that then that’s when they’re really going to find out what they need and what they’re missing and

Like look we know they’re missing a point guard we know they’re missing shooting we know they need some things it’s it’s not like we’re saying this team is perfect you know live with them but like to to that point Pao doesn’t know what he how know what he needs to

Work on yet and so I I I I think I think the concern on my end with the magic you know again I I really like the idea of a Deonte Murray on this team but my concern at this developmental stage with the team is that if you put a deante

Murray on this team all of a sudden you are putting those expectations on this group and you’re kind of boxing in Bane Caro into a specific role and a specific Play Because Murray has to play his way and you have to feed Murray the ball a c

Certain amount of times it’s not like eventually you’re going to have to learn how to play with other really good play players but it just feels like Paulo and fron are still in this experimental stage where they can make some mistakes and you know no one is flipping out

About that about you know no one flips out when fron has a five turnover game because it’s like okay he’s learning when where his shots are going to come from and and that’s you know like you said nothing is more fun than a team that’s figuring out how to win for the

First time because you know once they once they’ve proven they can win then everyone starts to be like okay why aren’t you doing it more right now it’s like okay like this is fun we’re winning that first that first season that first season that you’re actually pretty good

Is is a lot of fun and I do think Murray is like fairly flexible like I don’t think he would pin you down as much as someone might think to that’s also important to point out because like he doesn’t have to be a 30% usage guy

You’re not trading for a guy who has to be the every down quarterback you know what I mean like I think he’s I think he is a point guard he is a scorer but um also the there’s there’s the there’s the Paulo Deon thing from from back in the

Day that’s interesting they’re both allegedly squashed at be but I just want to say say those words out loud once no it’s there Pal’s the franchise player so obviously he would have to be okay with it for it to happen no I think I wouldn’t worry about that

It’s just kind of a funny thing that I just remembered as we were talking yeah um but no I I think that it is a move that would be a expectation changer and I think you got to be ready for that as an organization whether it’s from the

Front office to the coaching staff to the players like it’s like hey once this guy arrives he walks in the door like it’s not like you’re trading for an established top 10 player that’s that’s a different that’s a different discussion Murray’s in that like top 4050 range he’s a really good player um

But he’d be firmly in a big three with with Paulo and fron at that point and they haven’t had that experience yet it’s been Paulo and France and they’re they’re the two best guys by far and they’ve been they’ve been doing it in anonymity like no one’s no one’s really

Paying it like like Orlando like Orlando has been so lost in the desert like you know we’re very we’re very happy just to have them like it’s it’s gets different and he would help them a lot and I I do think that on the player look we don’t I’m guilty of this too

But I try to like think about the player side and if if I was Jon I’d be I’d be thrilled to be in Orlando I really would um you know take you know locations and relationships all that stuff basketball-wise like it gives him a chance to be the player that he would

Like to be in the way that he’s comfortable being as like the point guard ball in his hands but also has plenty of help and that’s a good situation for him to be in as well let’s let’s kind of close with with this then you know I I’m not I’m not big into

Making like fake trades I I like looking for kind of I’m like I’m very I’m very I like looking at Frameworks for deals like we could fill in the details later but is there a way to do this but but we have to start here you know you said the

Hawks are kind of putting a pretty firm line they’re looking for a lot what are the Hawks looking for in in a deal at at at this juncture so what’s been reported and what I have also heard in addition to the reporting is that the Hawks have

Been asking teams for the equivalent of two first round picks and something else essentially like whe whether that’s the the salary filler or a young player um some of the teams don’t have two first round picks like the Lakers are the team that’s been most tied to have they don’t

Have two so it’s been like one and whatever else you can Cobble together kind of thing so they’re not married to it has to be two for round picks but that’s the equivalent value and like same thing with Orlando I think if you uh if you insert Anthony black in place

A first- round pick like that counts does that mean does that make sense I don’t I don’t I don’t I don’t know if I don’t know doing that we’re not not magic doing that I’m just giving you the uh examp of like first round pick can mean different things first round pick

Can mean second second draft guy yeah it could be who’s not who’s not like I don’t know yeah because for instance the Lakers have been trying to offer them Jay Hino who was a first round pick this last year I don’t think he has the value

In a vacuum a first round pick right now um I don’t know if jet Howard would have the first round pick patina in a trade right now after not playing really at all this year but like he’d be interesting that’s a guy that’s like interesting um that’s what the Hawks

Want to do yeah and Orlando has picks they do actually have picks where some of these teams that don’t so that’s the asking price um of course you have to match salary um one of the advantages now is that he’s only making 18ish million this year so it’s a little bit

Easier to do that and as you will know Orlando has a bunch of those mid-tier salaries so it’d be one of the easier teams to actually find a deal that lines up I don’t know if I don’t know what the Hawks want on the Magic roster that’s

That’s the question but they do have different combinations in a way that like there’s a lot of different ways to get it done I would yeah yeah and and like this this this you know this is a problem that I’ve I’ve brought up with a

Lot with a lot of people like the magic do have a lot of these kind of mid-tier salaries but like I imagine Atlanta if they’re even if they’re trading to jonte Murray they still want to be competitive like they’re still in the playing Chase they don’t want to lose that playin spot

They still got they can’t waste a year of Trey young if they they would prefer they would prefer not to turn Murray into nothing for this year like there’s there are there are ways for them to do a deal that would do that I think there’s a deal with the Knicks that was

Discussed at one point for like Evan fornier and but even then they were getting Quinton Grimes in the deal Quint Grimes is not a spectacular player but he would help you now contribute yeah um it’s not he’s not a total zero I I think that to your point they don’t they don’t

Want to Bott him out right now they’d like to be competitive this year and they also know that trading Deon isn’t going to make them better in the short term it’s more of a retooling effort but they don’t want to just get nothing back in the short term if they can help yeah

And so so to that so to that point like this is the the biger problem that I think the magic have is the guys that they have to offer that would match dejon Murray’s salary are Jonathan Isaac who you know might be might be recouping some value but I don’t think the magic

Want to trade him with how good he has been when he’s when he’s been healthy they got markl Foltz who’s an expiring contract which might be valuable in a bad free aging class but also there’s a reason the magic are trying to get off Markel Foltz or trying to move on from

Markel folz um it’s wendo Carter who you know is only a13 million you know Atlanta product Atlanta product um you know he might be someone that is of interest to people but you know the magic you know the magic would want to Cent her back in return I don’t think

Clint capella does does it does it for them it’s you know Gary Harris who’s an expiring $13 million contract he’s been hurt most of the year the guys that the magic have that would help them get you know chumo KK another another Atlant area guy um but like he’s been out of

Rotation for essentially a year and a half two years um the magic don’t have necessarily the high salary guys to get them to to make Atlanta make the deal if if that makes sense unless unless Jan Isaac or wend Carter is on the table which you know I always as always to get

Something good you gotta give up something good I don’t think the are ready to to sacrifice those guys yeah and I I understand that too I do think uh I don’t know if we were talking about wend in particular I do think that the Hawks should have interested W Carter um

Because I think they’re trying to move capella for salary reasons and fit reasons and they’ve already paid aong Wu but I think a kongu and Wendell are actually really together um putting that I think it’s not likely for that to be a package for wend to be included I do

Think marel FZ would be kind of interesting mostly mostly is inspiring but he could help I mean he could play a real role for the Hawks right now um he wouldn’t be as good as jante in that role but because he can handle the ball

A little bit he can defend um that’s not a zero like there’s there’s been a deal um that’s been talked about I’m not saying it’s close by any means but like with Den witty coming back from Brooklyn kind of similar like different player than than folz but an expiring contract

A guy that Hawks probably don’t want to keep necessarily with desperation but someone who could who could help them now he could play for them now full play for them now um and yeah the other the I mean Gary Harris is kind of similar like could he play some minutes for the Hawks

Sure he could is that terribly appetizing probably not for the Hawks has to return for Deon same thing with Joe Engles you know all th you know all those guys it is it is what the magic what the magic probably have and I think

This is the case for a lot of the deals that that that they might be involved in what the magic have is their draft picks like I what was what was that stat that that came around was like the between the ma between the Spurs magic Pistons

Thunder and Rockets they own 75% of like future first for the next like five years something like that the Magic The Magic are like on the low end of that yeah the the combination of things the magic have that would be interesting in a hawk steel is less about the current

Players it it’d be more about they have expiring contracts whichever ones you want to pick they have them and then they have young guys if you want to you know obviously Anthony black is kind of in an interesting tier of has own there but you have Jed Howard and you have

Pick and you have those are the three things you have um and it’s not a bad combination of those things it’s just that whether the Hawks want to I mean whether magic want to take Anthony black off the table is interesting in this conversation um picks are interesting

Like obviously they would have no problem offering two first round picks a lot of these teams can’t get to two and Oro can offer them two real unfake two two first round picks and I think and I think the M you know like I think the magic are probably very actively

Shopping or willing to include the 20 25 Denver pick that they have um which you know it’s not a good pick but it’s a it’s a real pick it’s a real pick yeah and then honestly like you know I know this draft isn’t the craziest good draft

Like the magic aren’t playing a draft pick from this year like I don’t know you know you don’t just throw away a TW a first a first for anything and that first is probably going to be in the 16 17 18 range maybe but why would I I I

Would I would I would think the magic would at least be more open to trading that pick than they happen in the past because Jed Howard’s not playing and and presumably you’re trying to open some space for him to play next year after he

Gets kind of a gap here in the G League yeah and also this is not something I necessarily agree with but a lot of the sentiment out there about this draft being bad and I I do agree with that middle I do agree with that the dra it’s

Not a good draft but yeah why I’m saying I don’t want necessar agree with it is that the middle of it’s fine like I I think where the match you’re going to pick is a fairly normal draft position it’s the top that’s a disaster in this draft so like I think they Anthony

Bennett bad let’s be clear yeah it gets described as this terrible draft but it’s really the top the rest of it is kind of normal so the equivalent value of the 16th pick what you said 18th pick whatever it’s going to be for Orlando that’s still a real pick the Hawks are

Looking at that the Hawks are owed a pick by the kings in that exact same range so I’m tracking that range already and it’s like this’s a pretty normal first round spot and to your point I think Orlando that would be interesting I would imagine all things equal the

Hawks would probably not love that one because they already have potentially two first round picks in this draft they have their own and they have the king’s pick which is likely to convey again that’s nitpicking way down the road and at the end of the conversation but I

Think that they made they they might might be asking for 2025 or 2027 or something like that and the magic obviously have those picks they have that weird Phoenix Washington pick that they that will that again will convey but it’s like the more favorable of whatever is the second Washington

Washington or yeah it’s it’s a weird it’s a weird I looked briefly and I was confused by it but yeah it’s like it’s aird it’s a weird one like I I I I even forgot that that they had it um the last point I want to bring up um is one thing

That I think at least magic fans have talked about because like you said the teams that are the favorites to get Murray the Lakers the Knicks they’re going to need some help do you view the Magic as a potential third team that could get involved in helping facilitate

Marie elsewhere you know like some magic fans pitched you know the magic might be a team that would be willing to take on deangel Russell I don’t I don’t think they would be but that is I was going to say that exact he fits some needs too

It’s not crazy to think that like there’s logic there it’s hard it’s really hard from the outside so the point about not living fake trades it’s really hard on the outside to like concoct scenarios for third teams but because that one’s been widely reported and I’ve heard it as well like the Hawks

Are kind of at a stalemate with the Lakers on this deal and part of it is the Hawks don’t want Russell they just don’t want him he fits a lot better than Orlando for instance than he would in Atlanta even in the short term so that

That’s a very logical one I don’t know if the magic or like Kicking and Screaming to be excited about doing that but they could for and by the way it would cost them very little that’s the thing um the Hawks aren’t asking for like in this in this three-way scenario

It wouldn’t be like hey give me a ton of stuff for D’Angelo Russell it’s like can you give me an expiring contract for D’Angelo Russell one of those kind of things like fults for Russell kind of that kind of thing I’m not saying that would be exactly it but that kind of

Construction would make would make some sense or Gary Harris for Russell whatever you want to say it is um that I wouldn’t mind that as the Hawks I don’t think I don’t know about Orlando like you said but he would kind of he kind of fits there but kind of doesn’t I don’t

Know it’s interesting he fits that he doesn’t like he gives them something that they they need you know like help the offense yeah and you think do they have enough to cover their def cover defensively like you mentioned Spencer jwy he’s been a guy I’ve kind of kicked

Around as well same kind of level as Russell a lot of different yeah just give him give him another guy who’s at least a threat to shoot you know a veteran it you know like a big thing that I’ve been talking with a lot of people about is like the magic have a

Lot of like kind of B and C Level players but you know when fron vager went out the offense went in the tank because they didn’t have so who could be a b-level player that turns into an a-level player for a week when you need

When you need him to like you know you don’t want to rely on that for a month but you know they don’t have a guy that can score that outside of poo and France who’s gonna gonna get you a a 30 a 30p pointer on a random night or when you

Know France was out for a while when po was out and that’s you know that’s kind of something that that you need uh you you need to to play at a high level and you survive an adg Game season but I I actually think Russell might be

Underrated now in a vacuum and I’ve never been I’ve never been a big fan of his honestly but I think the reason why for the Hawks is that he just can’t play with Trey like that that doesn’t make any sense so I think um sus it’s

Different he play yeah he would be or even next to folz like he makes sense with multiple guys in Orlando in the way he would not next to Trey in Atlanta so yeah um didn’t want to dive too deep into that rabbit hole but it does it

Does feel like it does feel like there is a framework like there like there is a path to there many Frameworks yes yes and like like again like my my big thing when I get into these trade discussions is like okay for you know we’ll worry

About the details but but can you make the math work uh you know is there something that that makes both teams say huh like let me think about that a little bit mention earlier started you said quickly earlier I’ll get out of your way this is also a deal that could

Happen this summer yeah I know that’s not sexy in the next few days but if the magic don’t like what they see in the playoffs and the Hawks keep and the Hawks keep Mur which certainly Could Happen these two teams still match up fairly well in July or June if they want

To at at the at the draft or in July like that’s a a nonzero possibility I would say of both sides kind of coming like hey Orlando might be more of a more in bu mode this summer and then the Hawks might still be looking for takers

On dejonte so that’s six months away five months away but like that could be on the radar too so so save this so so you know save this podcast put the link in your put your link in your too many tabs save it come back to it come back

To it after the season tell a friend yeah tell a friend yeah the only other thing and and again like you mentioned you hinted you hinted a little bit with the Pao deante history the only other thing and I brought this up when I talked to Tony east of lock on Pacers

When we chatted about Buddy heeld um the magican Hawks are also still kind of competing for the same spot in the in the East uh I’m sure Atlanta I’m sure Atlanta you know Trey young is an All-Star level player I’m sure he’ll be one of The Replacements uh for for the

All-Star team uh if he wants if he wants it um but um but I’m sure Atlanta still views itself as hey we we should be the succeed next year like we’re still a top six team in the in the conference we had a bad year but we’re still top six team

In the conference they’re not likely you know like kind of like with I spoke about this Tony east of locked on Pacers is like why would the Pacers give the magic a really valuable player so that they can pass them in the standings and people don’t talk about that aspect

Enough because like they think like oh divisions don’t matter anymore like you know like like why would you not why would you care about this stuff but like you don’t want to help your direct competition yeah a lot of teams don’t care and some do is the way I would say

And I don’t exactly know what the Hawks feel it’s the new front office about because it hasn’t come up yet about like do you want to trade with a relative rival of yours um like Daryl Mur is like I don’t care you know what I mean like

He’ll trade with whoever it is and makes your team better makes your team better but you want to make your team better like that’s that’s what matter you got do it could come in at the end of a conversation be like okay as a tiebreaker do we want to send Orlando do

We want to deal with this with this guy and and Paulo and France for the next five six five six years maybe not so yeah it could be a tiebreaker on either side yeah uh Brad I want to thank you for jumping on telling us a little bit

About deante Murray about where he stands ahead of the trade deadline uh we’ll see if this is still relevant after February 8th it might be like we said um but uh good luck to you the good luck to you the rest of the season uh the rub the rubber Mill is almost done

Spinning almost almost thanks for having me I want to thank Brad for taking the top to chat with us about the je Murray second time this year on the show we did the Mexico City game back in back in November now that’s so long ago um but I

Want thank Brad for shedding some light on deante Murray uh hopefully we will be not be chatting with him in April because I don’t really want to see the Hawks in the playing tournament if it comes to that and we may be chatting with him in June because like we said

Some of this stuff might Linger on a little bit longer so I want to thank him again you can check him out on locked on Hawks as well as the other great podcasts on the locked on podcast podcast network but that’s going to do

It for me today I want to thank you all again for listening to today’s episode of lockon magic you course find me on Twitter Philip rrd subscribe to the podcast Apple podcast your tuned in himay Google Spotify Odyssey and all the podcast to your podcast enable listen advice for

Ladies the Orlando Magic be sure to check out orlandomagic daily.com you can find us there on Twitter at omic Daily and be sure to check out my patreon page as well the Orlando Magic Hub at patreon.com orlandomagic HUB thank you all for your support on tomorrow’s episode of lockon

Magic we will break down the Orlando Magic’s big game against the Miami Heat from the ca Center I’m driving down to Miami once again so we will see you down in South Beach or near South Beach I don’t think it’s actually South Beach but we will see you down in Miami

Tomorrow for another episode of lockon magic

The trade deadline is an opportunity for the Orlando Magic to get significantly better. And they are a team that makes sense for the biggest fish on the trade market — Atlanta Hawks guard Dejounte Murray. What would it take to get him and what would be his fit?

Plus, the Orlando Magic play their biggest game of the season in Miami with major playoff implications on the line.

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