Atlanta Hawks: Emerging from the All-Star break with Ben Ladner (Part 1)

Atlanta Hawks: Emerging from the All-Star break with Ben Ladner (Part 1)

On today’s show I am joined by Ben Ladner good friend of the podcast to talk a little bit about the Hawks and the Eastern Conference this is actually part one of two and it’s coming to you right now you are locked on Hawks your daily Atlanta Hawks podcast part of the locked

On podcast Network your team every Day [Applause] Hello friends welcome to episode 1657 of the lon Hawks podcast I am your host Brad Roland coming to you on a Wednesday evening here in late February and Today’s Show is brought to you by the folks at FanDuel Sportsbook right now if you’re a new customer get 150 in bonus

Bets with any winning $5 bets visit fel.com lockon to get started today also I want to tell you the top of the podcast as I always do to make us your first listen each and every day check us out and subscribe to Lon hos podcast anywhere you get your podcasts places

Like apple and Spotify Amazon music overcast also YouTube on the video side and Today’s Show is mostly myself and Ben Ladner of the read react podcast talking all things Hawks in the Easter Conference in two-part fashion this is part one that you’re about to listen to

Before we get to that though some news that has popped up on this Wednesday and the big thing is AJ Griffin is heading to College Park so I discussed this a lot in recent days I’ll do the short version now before I bring in Ben for

The rest of the podcast and also into part two but I theorized earlier this month and even into last month that Griffin was likely to go to college park at some point after the All-Star break after Trad line as well ler Fields confirmed that essentially at his media

Availability a couple of weeks ago post deadline and then AJ was officially assigned to College Park as of this morning on Wednesday the Hawks don’t actually practice as a bigly club until Thursday in advance to the game on Friday but College Park practice today and they actually play a game on

Thursday afternoon so you listen to this podcast on Wednesday night or Thursday morning College Point Wass at 12:30 in Indiana against the M against the matad ANS on Thursday as of now we don’t know for sure that he’s going to play in that game but assuming Griffin does play it

Would be the first time that he’s ever played in the g-league although he you know he is 20 years old it’s interesting to kind of talk about AJ because he had this really exciting and positive rookie season where he was certainly much better than the average 19-year-old

Would be and then this year’s basically been a Lost season to this point in time it’s been very odd obviously he had the rough start at the beginning of the Season he had the extended personal absence for a few weeks and when he came back it was very clear to everyone that

He was essentially nowhere near the rotation they’ve been essentially operating as if AJ was the last guy on their bench for the last several weeks and you know you can sort of talk about that on the outside I will always raise my hand and admit we don’t we don’t have

The full story from the uh from the outside but NE say he needs to play basketball that’s something I’ve been consisent about for quite some time now is that he just hasn’t played the Hawks don’t really practice a lot during the season because they’re traveling all that stuff and you can do some

Scrimmaging off to the side with guys who don’t play a lot but there is no substitute for playing in actual basketball games that count and he’s not played in a game Beyond garbage time for a long time so it’ be good for me at least in my opinion to get him to

College Park have him play some extended minutes have the ball in his hands get the rust knocked off honestly I would guess he’s going to be rusty that’s my guess but we’ll see and look as a reminder AJ is still has a very talented player he has a great shooting he has

Great shooting ability he’s 20 years old that’s younger than a lot of draft picks will be in the coming draft so like no reason to write him off at this point it’s been a weird season certainly given the personal absence and all the stuff around it it seems to be much bigger

Than basketball but we’ll see how AJ looks in College Park if he plays there in a game and again it could happen as soon as Thursday and we’ll come back to that more later on also one PSA about this weekend on the podcast a little bit of network business here without boring

You too much the LA Time Podcast Network which of course is the purveyor of the show they are changing hosting services for the audio only platforms so that handles Spotify and apple podcast and Amazon and overcast Etc and that’s going to happen over this coming weekend that’s out of my hands obviously well

Above my head I will still have my usual podcast the only reason why I’m me telling you this because normally if you were going to do a show over the weekend it wouldn’t matter but I like to do shows after every game when possible and Hawks play on Friday night and on Sunday

Night so I’m telling you this now because the podcast that I record this weekend will only be available on YouTube right away um I going to put them on the audio platforms as of Monday but if you want to listen in real time either between games or after the game

On Sunday Etc the best place and really the only place to do that in real time will be on YouTube so go ahead and subscribe and like the podcast on that platform and then again if if you want to wait for the audio product I don’t blame you necessarily but a good place

To kind of catch up in real time if you want to listen to that is on YouTube over the weekend and uh a good place to kind of cross promote anyway because people I’m sure not every listens to YouTube not everybody wants to listen on their audio podcasts platforms hopefully

The best honestly the best thing you can do to support the show in general is to subscribe and Auto download and like and rate and review and spread the word for us and over the weekend the next two shows after today’s two part episode with Ben is Friday G Friday’s game and

Also Sunday’s game and they’ll be only on YouTube until Monday so should just be a onetime thing this weekend but if you’re wondering where the show is on your audio platform that is why and if you have questions about that hit me up on all of the social media channels of

Course Twitter SLX is the main place to find me and the show you can find me there at BTR Rolland find the show there as well at lockon Hawks Please Subscribe rate review and all that out of the way we’ll dive in right now to myself at Ben

Lader Again part one of two so stay tuned for part two and see you in a second but here we go with myself and Ben I’m joined Now by good friend of the podcast Ben Ladner Ben welcome back it’s been a while I try not to bug you too

Much but welcome back thank you no I’m glad you did bug me it’s it’s great to be here I’m happy to uh be chatting about some basketball with you Ben we’ll do this now Ben is one of the hosts of the read and react podcast Ben used to

Cover the Hawks on a regular basis Now does not cover the Hawks on a regular basis but is a a basketball Observer knows things about the MBA watches lots of basketball and uh a good time for sort of a a catchup of sorts we’re going

To do we’ll do a little hawks and then we’ll talk about the east as well I guess we should start with the Hawks it’s a hawks podcast after all Ben um it’s been a weird season for the Hawks obviously uh part of the appeal of having someone who’s not cover the team

Every day is like the external view you know now now now you’re now you’re an outsider Ben congratulations thank you um on that despite living in the city of Atlanta um what do you make of this I mean they’re 24 and 31 um I actually just as we’re talking um I just shared

It’s kind of funny nobody cares about this but the the TV ratings are way up for the Hawks this year which makes no sense to me at all CU like they’re objectively worse than they’ve been and yeah The Vibes are bad the same Personnel too yeah The Vibes are kind of

Not good I mean I guess Jaylen Johnson’s the one different thing which I’m sure we’ll talk about but like how are you feeling about the Hawks generally speaking as someone who’s not in the grind every day yeah it’s h i mean I feel like I always kind of have the same

Thing to say when I come on which which I think again speaks to just the nature of the Hawks I mean this is it’s been this way since I was a Hawks fan in my youth like 15 years ago during the Joe Johnson era you know they’re kind

They’re they’re not as good as those Joe Johnson teams were no but you know they’re kind of once again in that squarely in that like Chicago Brooklyn kind of Toronto this year tier of just disappointing Eastern Conference teams like right below the playoff Fray still in the play in mix but at least

Record-wise kind of separated from Orlando at the eight seed um maybe a team we can talk about later I’ve liked them um but yeah they just it it I I was talking we we were talking on read and react with John uh a couple episodes ago I think and he asked among Brooklyn

Chicago Atlanta Toronto he threw Orlando in there which I think is fair qualitatively you know which of those teams would you would you pick in a playoff series or pick to make the playoffs or whatever and I said I think the Hawks are the most talented of those

Teams I think on paper you could you could make a better case maybe for them being the best team in that group than anyone else but just in practice it’s just never it’s never come together in the way it seems like it should based on the personnel and there’s always

Injuries are to blame for that chemistry is to blame for that there are these ineffable things there are these objective observable things um it’s not it’s not to point the finger it’s not not to do anything like that necessarily but it’s just like something always seems to throw this team off from what

It seems like it can be coming into the season and they always seem to show signs of what they can be at various points I think they’ve done that at different moments this season um kind of shown you what kind of team they can be but it just never comes

Together in the way that it needs to for them and so you know lo and behold they’re 24 and 31 with the 22nd best net rating and it’s like they’re definitely not bad they’re definitely better than the worst teams in the league no one would put them in the same classes like

Charlotte and Detroit and San Antonio um but you know I I don’t think anyone would also put them would put them in the like definite play playin team or playoff team tier either so they’re they’re just kind of in this very narrow band in the NBA hierarchy Today’s Show is brought to you

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You and 2 half million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring and you can post your job for free by going to linkedin.com lockon NBA one more time that is linkedin.com loock onba terms conditions apply yeah I I can already hear some people yelling at their uh phones or

Computers that the Hawks just lost to the Hornets in decisive Fashion on Valentine’s Day and they’re going to I made the mistake or I shouldn’t even say I believe this to be true but you’ll find this money I I did I kind of went more more negative than usual when the

Hawks laid the egg against the Hornets yeah and it was getaway day before the All-Star break all that stuff Quinn kind of just was baffled by it and uh Hornets fans found the podcast and they thought that I was insulting the Hornets and I was like well guys the Hornets are the

Worst team in the league by net rating this year it’s not like an insult to say the Hawks should have probably beaten the Hornets or at least been more competitive than that anyway um no I think you’re right I think it’s you know I’m in the weeds a lot on this podcast

It’s it’s on purpose like this is a it’s a show designed for Hawks fans and like I’m doing every game and all that stuff sometimes it’s good to like take a step back and I think what you’re saying makes a lot of sense I mean one of

Things I was going to ask you actually is like you know I’ve had this belief that you kind of just mentioned like you know I think I I wonder how this sounds to you I feel like the Hawks best or even their like a minus is better than those teams you mentioned

Like I think we’ve had proof of concept like it might be for one game it might be for a week it might be for two weeks you know last year this is I don’t want to make too much of one game but they they beat the heat pretty soundly in a

Playin game and like that’s a that’s a high sakes matchup it’s it’s a play I get that but they they went on the road to Miami and beat them soundly and then Miami went on the Run they made and then you see the Hawks in these one game

Scenarios this year where like they’ve beaten good teams like they’ve played well against good teams they took the Clippers to the brink two weeks ago like they played Boston tight a few times like their their Highs are pretty high it’s just the consistency level and that’s been the most frustrating thing because

I think like you said like talent wise roster for roster wish that they’re healthy their top eight is as good and I would probably argue better than what Orlando has than what um Indiana might even have like Miami is a different category kind of because of what they’ve

Done in the past but like talent wise the Hawks are probably better than the heat it’s just that the heat are the Heat and they have SPO and this Wizardry that they have but they’re better than the Bulls or better than Nets like and and that makes it more maddening I mean

I hear from HW HW all the time like I covering this team and being objective and kind of at a remove like you know that but I’m frustrated by them so I can only imagine what like fans who are like super emotionally invested are because like it just doesn’t make sense if you

Watch every game it’s almost more maddening does that make sense it does yeah and even going back to last year’s playoffs they obviously had a a tough start against the Celtics but eventually took that series pretty deep yeah and it looked like the Celtics didn’t really

Have an answer for what they were doing offensively I think that speaks in large part to just the greatness of Trey young offensively as a guy who like if you have anything close to like a a reasonably talented Supporting Cast he can kind of pull you

To the offensive level that you want to be at um and he’s he’s more or less done that this season the Hawks if to the extent that they are Treading Water right now it’s because of their offense which is because of him so I mean it all

Kind of comes back to him for me um but even he has his shortcomings and obviously the rest of the roster can be unreliable at times too and that’s kind of the issue to me is just like you know what separates good players from great players great players from good teams in

The NBA is just consistency it’s the ability to hit that eight nine 10 on the on the scale pretty much every single night and the Hawks you know they can get up to an eight or a nine sometimes a 10 but they just have a lot of Threes a

Lot of fours just a lot of eggs like you said against the Hornets I remember going back to when we were covering together in 2020 and that was you know they were a worse team then but it was just like they would play these they’ play the Bucks tight one night they

They’d play the Rockets really well and then the next night they’d play the Grizzlies who were bad at the time they’d play the Hornets who were still bad at the time and it was they just always played to the level of their competition and it’s it’s kind of that

Same issue to a a different extent they’re they’re better against those bad teams but not but not consistent enough to like uh repeatedly put those teams away on a night toight basis you know and rack up those easy wins that you need to be a playoff team yeah for sure and I

Won’t take you down the the talking points that I always talk about about you know the roster construction leaves something to be desired this year their depth is not what it should be the luxury tax spending I will save that for another podcast when you’re not here Ben

I won’t make you do that with me congratulations on that that you get to avoid that topic um you you did mention Trey I don’t want to make you talk about Trey Young trade stuff because that has been the topic around here the last week

Or so um you mentioned him on the court I wonder what you think about this too because I you know I’ve been on this kick this year that I think you know we’ve gone to this weird spot where Trey is underrated and I’m shocked by that

But I think he really pretty clearly is underrated now and it’s like a weird thing um but him and Deon has been a talking point um I think that I’m not sure it’s been Trey’s best year but he’s played some of his best basketball collectively when you throw in the

Defense and I think you know nationally especially gets memed his defense people think that he’s still the guy he that he used to be he’s he’s just not he’s he’s not great he’s not Gary pton or anything but he’s better than he used to be and he’s really good on offense and it’s

Just it’s hard for people to square that he could be playing some of his best basketball and the Hawks still be bad I think that’s I talk about actually this week earlier this uh on the podcast with my friend Tower Jones like there are two people that get the heat when teams

Underperform that have expectations and it’s usually the star player and the head coach MH and the head coach they just hired a year AG like pretty much a year ago now and he’s respected and he’s got a little bit of heat locally but not a ton it’s still kind of the honeymoon

Is Phase with Quinn so it feels like Trey’s approval rating even locally is like lower than it’s ever been and I’m not exactly sure why that is I guess it’s just literally wins and losses I suppose but again from the outside like what do you think of Trey young because

Like he he he got in the allstar game but he had to be an injury replacement it’s it’s just weird like he’s kind of on the edge of stardom in the way he’s talked about even though the play suggests that he’s still a star it’s just that he’s not talked about that way

Anymore yeah he’s an interesting player in that respect because he’s he’s gone back and forth on the overrated underrated thing like agreed it’s so weird like almost every season of his career yeah no not to cut you off but it’s like I I made the point I don’t

Want to make it about me but like he’s the exact kind of guy that I would be drawn to thinking is overrated like you know what I mean at least the the idea of Trey young as a small all offense no defense that again that’s a very broad

That’s not what what he is anymore but like that player does not appeal to me like I’m a defensive guy I’m a I’m on the I’m I’m on the margins guy like but I think it’s almost gone too far it’s like you you can’t fake averaging 27 and 10

On good efficiency like that you can’t fake that it’s being the central Hub of what your team does offensively for a team that’s good I mean not an elite offense but a good offense but a good one exactly it’s like you know there are guys who can put up empty there’s the

Whole empty stat conversation and that is it’s possible to put up empty stats I’m not saying that and maybe there I’m sure there have been knights in Trey’s career when I would say that those were empty stats tonight he he wasn’t very good yeah but like it he does Drive

Successful offense and he has for several years and I don’t think he’s also responsible quote unquote for the defense being bad you know what I mean I think he’s part of that sure but like you know it’s always so he’s only so bad you can be defensively as a guard to

Like ruin a team’s defense and I think that he’s also pretty clearly gotten better to the point where like people talk about that not just Hawks people like people around the league like kind of noticed like hey Trey is more competitive than he used to be

Defensively and it’s a low bar to clear but I don’t know it’s just a it’s very odd and I feel like I try to ask people that don’t watch the Hawks every day what they think because I feel like I I I don’t want to be in my bubble too much

If that makes sense yeah I well I just think he’s you know he’s a player with extreme strengths and extreme weaknesses and I think anytime you have someone like that it’s the conversation is always a little off from it always the way that not to get into like a meta analysis of modern

Media or anything but just why not why not the way like discourse you know in in current Society I guess works is just like you know there’s only so much room for a certain amount of of nuance or perspective and then the rest of it just for whatever reason just kind of gets

Pushed to the side and so when you have a player like Trey young who is so far on either side of the spectrum of strengths and weaknesses it’s like it’s it’s hard to find any kind of like Middle Ground there and so all the evidence is either really supportive or

Really damning and it’s like you you can make case either side depending on what you point to and so yeah um he maybe that has to do with his reputation kind of swinging back and forth each year a lot of it also has to do with just the

Team success which as you said is not always correlated with individual Play I Won’t Go on that whole about Allstar selection whatnot but um that does it doesn’t matter in the big picture but yeah I mean you and I both I I’ve listened to your show I’ve talked to you

Many times offline like Nuance is something that we both appreciate about game and talking about the game and try to bring some of that and it is hard like because you know on the on the archetype of him being like not only good versus bad and there is nothing in

The middle in the way that it’s discussed um you know how much there are degrees like the way that I put it is would I choose in a vacuum to build my franchise around a 61 guard just that just that alone I would

The answer is that to is no if if you if you have a choice between a 61 guard of any kind or or a wing or a forward Slovenian 68 uh well that’s a whole other thing you sure Today’s Show is brought to you by eBay motors and passion drive and

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Ebaymotors.com one more time the place to go is ebaymotors.com eBay guaranteed fit is only available to us customers eligible items only exclusion Supply I it’s you’ll appreciate this because I haven’t talked about this in a while I get accused of being like a Trey Homer now which is so funny because like

I was never I mean I was if anything I was seen as being too low on Trey for most of his Youth and like my opinion on Trey has not changed that much I think it’s pretty much the same like I think his defense has gotten better and that’s

That’s certainly noteworthy and I think he’s playing he’s playing winning basketball more now than he was as a like as a rookie seconde player I think he’s matured a lot as as like a human like he’s married with a kid and like you know he’s he’s an adult now in a way

He wasn’t before like it’s just interesting to me like I don’t think he’s a top five player in the league I don’t think I think it’d be hard for him to get there because it’s just he’s Limited in what he can do and there is this whole discussion that we could

Probably do for an hour that we won’t do about like how hard it is to build around a 61 guard with even if he has improved defensively he limitations are never going to go away and that is hard but also you can say that he’s also

Really good at being that guy you know it’s it’s this really interesting to your to use your word and mind often nuance discussion that it’s hard to have yeah and it’s it’s also true that the good things still have value even when the the drawbacks uh draw you back um you

Know it’s like that the fact that he’s not a good Defender doesn’t cancel out the fact that he’s a great offensive player it just means that both of them exist and you know you have to parse out like which is more valuable and when is one thing more valuable and when is it

The other outweighing that like playoffs versus regular season I think as as those two things become more and more different like a player like Trey maybe is more subject to this polarization because in the regular season he can get you to a certain level offensively and

Then maybe that doesn’t work as well in the playoffs or vice versa maybe he’s a player who like his team underperforms in the regular season but then you get to the playoffs and he can really carry your offler you know like and it’s actually ironic because Trey was so good in their

Their one long playoff run he was great and I think that performance quieted a lot of the talk about what limitations were because he was so good and like they were people kind of forget like they they pushed the they pushed the Bucks in that series they they they

Weren’t like about to win it but it was they were competitive in that Conference finals against the eventual Champions but then the next year he had a disastrous playoff series against Miami he was awful like awful and I think he if anything he probably got he probably

Should have got more heat about how bad he was so it’s like that go it kind of goes in it and I mean him versus and they play the Heat now in a playing game and a playoff series Jimmy Butler is the exact opposite player where like Jimmy Butler I’ve always felt especially

Recently is like very very very overrated in the regular season like extremely overrated in the regular season still really good but like he doesn’t drive you for 82 games but in the playoffs we’ve seen Jimmy Butler is fantastic like he he can he’s carried them in a way and it’s like he’s the

Archetype of a guy who’s a little bit older of course but he’s a six seven wing and he’s bulky and gets to a spots and he can defend and all this stuff and obviously it’s not just one One V one but it’s just an interesting kind of parallel because they we’ve seen the

Heat and the Hawks play a bunch recently and like that kind of popped up my mind when you said that because like he’s the he’s kind of they’re not opposite players but he’s the archetype of the guy who is way better in the playoffs the regular

Season yeah yeah I’m with you it’s it’s ultimately there are just very few players who can do what he can offensively what what Trey can do offensively and so in that sense he’s he is a top five player top six or seven player just in that narrow band of

Offensive engines who can drive yeah on that end of the floor and then you you throw and all the other stuff and it becomes a more nuanced discussion but like that that fact is what it is and that’s a really valuable thing and and you can talk about well does it get

Outweighed by this and that and it’s like would you rather have Trey versus whomever and it’s it’s like okay you can get into that but sure if you don’t have Trey young like you your offense will be worse in all like not be the same need to find that skill set elsewhere right

So it’s like would you rather have Trey’s skill set and have to find the skills that he doesn’t have elsewhere or would you rather get those other skills that you’re never going to have from him but have to make up that offensive Firepower somewhere else and that’s like

That’s a question that NBA GMS have been asking for decades you know it’s not a it’s not a new idea but he’s just such a again just the prominent strengths The prominent weaknesses um it just makes for it makes it very easy to kind of uh take take a Hardline stance against the

Other side you know oh for sure we can move on from this but I uh just because this Popp in my head when we’re talking um nothing is more annoying to me than the uh than the reply guys who will tell you that he gives back all the all the games

On offense on defense that that’s that’s not a thing that exists well so I was I was curious about this because you know the Hawks defense obviously is not good this year it is not it’s it’s quite it’s in fact Ben it’s quite bad many would

Say it’s quite bad bad yes um I think I’m wondering and I don’t know this for sure but I’m wondering if if maybe it’s time to re just as a as a broader like NBA media body or thinking body to to reevaluate the idea that you alluded to it earlier about how much

Guards can really hurt your defense on the perimeter because I think for a long and I subscribed to this too and I I still kind of do to an extent but there was this idea that like well you know yes Trey young is a terrible Defender and like there are these these low

Lights that you can point to and he’s obviously doing nothing defensively but based on the value of that position on defense he him being like the worst defender in the NBA at that position doesn’t actually hurt you that much because that’s a pretty a relatively unimportant defensive position and you

Can kind of get that defensive value back in other positions and I wonder if that’s Thea still the case whether that was ever the case to the extent that we said like I’m trying to figure out I guess if the game has changed in a way that has made that less true whether

That was just not as true as we thought back then or whether it is still true and the and I just don’t have enough evidence yet to really make up my mind one way or the other but I do think it’s interesting with the Hawks you know now

Surrounding him with a little bit more defensive Personnel you look at some of the other worst defenses in the NBA they also have some of these these even like a team like the Pacers is an interesting example because they do have Miles Turner and yet you know their po their

Kind of porous perimeter defense shaky on ball defense has kind of gotten them down near the Hawks defensively so I’m wondering is it time to reevaluate this idea do we not have enough evidence you know what’s the verdict on this I don’t know if it’s out yet yeah I don’t think

It’s out and also I think it’s also important to like note what else you have it’s almost like do you have someone on your roster that can do what you need you know what I mean it’s not like one guy who can’t do it because you know halberton and Trey are very similar

Because halberton has no matter what any like halberton has been really actively bad defensively yeah and you know he’s still a great player but like that has hurt them um and he’s not alone they had you know they had buddy hee who’s been he’s not there anymore but he he’s quite

Bad on defense Ben Maan is quite bad on defense like they have several guys in Indiana who are not very good and the Hawks too like you know not we’re not going to do the Murray thing but the Murray’s not been great defensively at times Sid Bay not great bogy at this

Current Point lovey bogy quite bad um so it’s like do you have do you have point of attack it’s not like one guy but like do you have players who can guard who can defend small guards do you have you have players who can defend bigger wings

Like it’s almost for me it’s that I I agree with your your premise like being interesting because I’m not sure where we are on that especially because there’s this whole talking point around the league and it’s true to some extent like that you’re quote unquote not to defend anymore like the draymond’s tour

He’s been on about this and it’s it’s kind of true it’s kind of true like you can’t you can’t put put your hands on guys it is harder than it’s ever been to defend and but everybody has that problem you know what I mean it’s not

Like you’re not the only team that has that problem everybody has the same problem so um I think it’s Personnel I think their scheme and also you you mentioned Miles Turner you know for the Hawks like they haven’t been good anywhere defensively I mean I mean there

Their centers are pretty good but click capella is not the guy he was three years ago um all that stuff so like they don’t have any area where you could say that’s a really great defensive spot on this roster um that hurts that that hurts too because you you can’t you

Can’t like your identity is nothing you don’t have an identity defensively it’s just like you’re trying to figure it out all the time it’s always a it’s always a fire drill and like there’s no real strength to kind of lean on heavily yeah and I should be clear I’m not putting

The entire and I know you’re not saying for people people’s Clarity not putting the entirety of the Hawks 27th ranked defense on Trey young a lot of that and it’s no it it’s definitely not on him and Al like I know I’m just want to say

It one more time so nobody yells at me Trey has gotten better like it’s very clear he’s been better this year but to your point and about all this the team is not improved defensively and that’s not on him but it’s you know it’s it’s everything man it’s it’s really hard to

Watch and I could do an hour with you on on Hawks defense We’re not gonna do that but it’s uh it’s been tough well and capella isn’t the same guy like you said he just doesn’t move the same way he’s older that you you got a second-year

Coach still clearly kind of trying to put in a system um you have like Jaylen Johnson shows defensive flashes a lot I DeAndre Hunter I still think has certain strengths defensively even if he’s not a perfect Defender yeah um so they have these guys like who can do some things

Defensively But ultimately like capella not being the same guy probably has as much to do with this as anything else maybe the SCH might be the other thing well and they they only not the this is mik me playing the hits but the one time that they’ve ever been even decent on

Defense for any length of time was in 2021 and I thought was playing at like a top five defender in the league level yeah and that’s and the second half that season and that’s to to your point that’s the only time they’ve ever been good enough and that’s not a coincidence

It’s because Clint was covering up everybody else like they’ve never had great Personnel defensively yeah there are lineups when they have if you’re trying to play Hunter if you play Hunter Johnson in a center okay we’re get we’re getting there um but they don’t have that’s one they have one lineup like

That they don’t have and then even then you don’t have guards like even when they had d a guy like d w who I of course love but they don’t have that Ace I mean Kobe buffin might be that guy but he’s a rookie I mean he’s not even

Playing and they don’t have even the benchu this year to even throw out there like they’ve had guys like that in the past they don’t even have that guy so it’s like they’re no I mean they have Trent Forest who’s on a two-way contracted Camp right so it’s uh yeah

It’s a it’s been it’s been a roller coaster right I also wonder you know with capella how much of it is the gobear thing Utah versus Minnesota where when he his last couple years in Utah he looked worse because all of the Personnel around him was worse yeah and

So and now that he has actual physical Strong Quick on ball Defenders on the perimeter guess what he looks a lot better I it’s hard to parse that with cap and it’s not as pronounced the same degree um but I wondered how much of it

Is just age and decline from him and how much I think I think it’s that I think it’s mostly just his he’s uh to make that comparison like he was Never As Good As Rudy but Rudy also has better tools than Clinton oh totally rud’s just

So much bigger and longer and like he’s lost probably even even now he’s playing a great level Rudy go are talking about he’s still not the same quite the same guy he used to be I don’t think defensively where he was the clearly the best player in the league defensively

Clint his superpower other than rebounding which he’s still great at was always his speed he was so fast compared to other centers and now he’s he’s just not anymore now he’s like average when it comes to that and he’s not he’s not that big he’s he’s 610 he’s not a seven

He’s not 71 he’s not 72 and like you know um and you have a k who’s who’s good too but he’s he’s limited too he’s he’s 68 68 69 and he’s not you know he has his issues I think he’s I think he’s already a good Defender he’ll get better

But they don’t have that superhuman guy I think if you had put Clint from 21 on this team they wouldn’t be 27th I’m not saying they would be good defensively but they they would be better than this um and but that’s only one guy and really that could only be a center you

You can really only build your defense that way if it’s if it’s a center that’s that’s an absolute monster like that’s not really something you can build around I mean unless you have Prime Rudy or Clint doing a Rudy impression for three months it like a one perimeter

Defender doesn’t do that yeah it can’t so right anyway we’re off the rails all right that is all for part one of two of myself and Ben Ladner please subscribe to the podcast check us out anywhere you get your podcasts places like apple and Spotify and YouTube Etc

Keep in mind what I said at the beginning of the podcast about the uh little bit of a downturn over the weekend when it comes to the audio only platforms but we’ll be back up and running as of Monday and also please subscribe to the show on YouTube because

The podcast will be available there right away over the weekend Friday and Sunday tell about the podcast follow us on Twitter /x loton Hawks follow me there as well at BTR Rolland as well as all my written content about the Hawks at patreon.com BTR Roland with all that

Said we’ll see you all next time and stay tuned for part two

Brad Rowland (@BTRowland, DIME on UPROXX) hosts episode No. 1657 of the Locked on Hawks podcast, and he is joined by Ben Ladner (@bladner_) for Part 1 of a 2-part discussion. The conversation includes the state of the Atlanta Hawks at the All-Star break, observations from afar, how good the Hawks actually should be, the Eastern Conference landscape, the Play-In race, and much more.

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