Atlanta Hawks after ASB, Jalen Johnson, Eastern Conference landscape with Ben Ladner (Part 2)

Atlanta Hawks after ASB, Jalen Johnson, Eastern Conference landscape with Ben Ladner (Part 2)

On today’s show it is part two of two with myself and Ben Ladner good friend of the podcast talking all things Hawks in the Eastern Conference here at the allstar break and without any further delay part one’s available for you right now and this is part two and it’s coming to you right

Now you are locked on Hawks your daily Atlanta Hawks podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every Day Hello friends welcome to episode 1658 of the loton Hawks podcast I am your host Brad Roland coming to you on a Wednesday evening into Thursday and Today’s Show is brought to you by the folks at LinkedIn jobs they help you to find the qualified candidates you want to talk to

And they help you to do it faster post your job for free at linkedin.com locked on MBA and of course terms and conditions apply also I want to encourage you as I always do at the top of the podcast to make us your first listen each and every day here at lot on

Hawks please subscribe to the show anywhere you get your podcasts Apple Spotify YouTube Amazon all those places and also this is part two of two with myself and Ben Ladner so if you miss part one I recommend at the highest level starting with part one and do the

The entire conversation if you’d like to get the whole picture and uh without any more delay it’s myself and Ben talking all things Hawks and Eastern Conference and here we go one more thing on the Hawks before we move on we talked about a little bit earlier I think briefly

Maybe offline I can’t remember uh jayen Johnson yeah I talk about him a lot but I’m In The Weeds on this too and around the leag I’ve been pleased with at least the basketball nerds I’m thinking of Nas Duncan people like that who were like are like hey jayen Johnson like people

Are talking about Jay Johnson and it’s good because he’s he’s been excellent so I want to know what you think of of him and he’s a year three player that feels like a year two player because he just didn’t play at all as a rookie um what

Do you make of what you’ve seen from him in uh in doses this year I I love Jay Johnson I think he is is really good I mean obviously he’s got a lot to put together to get to like the the high-end outcome for him you know he’s still kind of scratching the

Surface but as a thirdy year guy and essentially a seconde guy like you said I don’t think he’s a super strong candidate for most improved this year but I think he I think he’ll be in the discussion I think he should be in the discussion like not it’s not just the

The statistical in I mean his rebounds and and scoring have like both either doubled or more um on and he’s maintaining like he’s he’s improved his efficiency and he’s the three-point shot isn’t like great but as a two-point finisher a guy who can get out in

Transition who can get to the rim either off off the cut or off the dribble um he just like he he gives them a physicality on the wing that they don’t have anywhere on the wing at the point of attack in the front Court they just they

Don’t have that kind of like fast strong explosive body on the team outside of him he’s like the it’s a little bit like not to the same degree but the role that Jonathan kaminga kind of plays for Golden State he just kind of even though he’s still young and he’s he’s not their

Best player he may not be their their second best player but he he’s important because he just gives them an ingredient that they don’t have anywhere else and so from that standpoint and obviously defensively he gives them a kind of Versatility again the physicality the range and the length and the size and

All that he just gives them an ingredient that they don’t have anywhere else and so um you know it’s he’s he’s not going to be a guy that I think you could like you said you can’t just put him on the floor and be like all right

Go anchor a top 10 defense he’s he’s not going to be like Draymond Green or Giannis or Evan Moy in that sense but he can be a very good kind of switchable three four combo forward Defender who does a lot of things for you and then I

Think offensively like he shows he shows all these flashes that it’s like again it reminds me of kaminga a little bit where it’s like if you can put this together consistently he he just has the tools to get downhill and to be efficient um and to kind of use use his

Size and his explosiveness to his Advantage yeah I like the defense but I I also you might be surprised we not surprised to hear this but a lots of hawks fans are acting like he’s already the defender that he might be in the future a very normal thing for young

Guys who’ve shown flashes yeah and I think his tools you just laid out his tools are great and his flashes are awesome defensively but he’s a to be it’s not me being chared but it’s just the reality he’s just not played a lot of NBA basketball defensively and it’s

Like you can see that if you watch closely you can see his rawness and that’s okay um and also he’s been tasked especially with Hunters missed he’s back now but he’s missed a bunch of time this year and that left Jaylen as kind of the

Only defender on a lot of these big on on these big wings and you know quit irisman to his credit sure to point that out like hey he’s he’s having to guard LeBron one night and you know starx the next night and all this he has the

Number one assignment a lot and that’s been Hunter’s job for a long time and jaylen’s not quite ready for it but but he had to take it on and that is admirable and I think that really his I think his probably his best long-term if

I had to guess right now is going to be that like number two Defender that’s like a Havoc Creator really good rebounder which is also something they really need especially if they’re going to build with Kung long term they need the rebounding and jaylen’s rebounding is excellent like he’s already a

Strongly above average rebounder at the four and really that’s probably under selling I think he might be one of the better four rebounders in the league that’s not again not a center but like he’s got a 24% defensive rebound rate that’s excellent for four like it’s he’s

Flying around and all that stuff so and in the offense like he’s the only guy on the team you talked about it but he’s really the only guy that physically can just get to the rim on this roster now they have guys that can break down you

Know Trey can get where he wants to but Trey 61 Deonte Murray is not is a great you know mid-range pull-up guy not a great finisher around the rim at all Hunter can kind of do it a little bit but Jaylen can get there and I think

They’re trying to work with him to be a little bit more strong like it’s funny you can see the rawness when he like he he tries these like craft layups it’s like Jaylen you’re 69ine buddy like you don’t have to you don’t have to do that

Just get to the line I mean they might foul you but you don’t need to do the soft like sweeping hook layup like don’t don’t do that just go finish but I think and you see sort of sides of that too so um I’ve made this point before but like

He’s he’s pretty obviously the brightest spot of the season so far yeah Tre Trey is the best player and tre’s having a fine year but as far as like if you’re looking at 24 31 like okay what is the number one brightest thing storyline it’s got to be jayen Johnson by a white

Margin so yeah and he just pops in a way that no one else does on a team that’s kind of can fall into these rote sort of bland offensive possessions and obviously isn’t super Dynamic defensively he just kind of brings a dynamism that jumps off the screen when

You’re watching this team BEC in a way that that nothing else really does at times some I mean some when Trey has those Knights obviously he do but you know other than Trey yeah he just he just sort of makes these plays where you’re you’re kind of like falling into

The the slow rhythm of a Hawks game and then it’s like whoa okay there’s Jaylen Johnson you know he can uh he can do that and yeah I mean there’s kind of you know there’s generally three ways the Hawks make highlights maybe four if you want to throw in like boogy goinging

Nuclear on one night shooting crazy threes but it’s most it’s Trey tre’s trus mostly his passing and all that and his long shoot and then Deon I will say Deonte Murray if he’s got it going in the mid-range and he’s making everything it is actually a lot of fun like

He these quarters ores where throwing in the that’s a lot ofun and then there’s Jaylen Johnson who can just like especially as grab and goes like I be I would be remiss to not mention his endtoend um grab and go freight train downhill that he can do and it gets like this is

It’s kind of sacrilegious to throw out the LeBron comparison but that’s the one area where I’m actually kind of okay with LeBron comparison is when he is when he does the the grab and goes nobody’s LeBron on but Jaylen if you especially in person I recommend people

Checking out him getting a rebound and taking it all the way by himself for 92 feet and and dunking with ferocity and just the way he covers ground all that stuff it’s not you know it’s not quite Giannis but it’s it’s one of those it’s

Kind of that you know one B level be he could be one of the best in the league at that he’s a monster at it already so yeah it’s only G to get improved today’s show is brought to you by LinkedIn jobs when you’re hiring for a small business you want to find

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Lot on NBA terms and conditions apply let us talk some Eastern confer before we get out of here maybe we’ll end with the Hawks when it comes to the playin but um I have a broad question for you in the East I love broad questions is it Boston and everybody else I’m

Starting to think so yeah because I mean the numbers tell you that it is I mean not to I won’t go through the all of them but like this is just the raw nba.com that rating but at at the break the the Boston has a plus 10.3 net

Rating and the next team in the East is 5.8 that’s a pretty big gap and by the way the team with 5.8 is the Cavs and they just won 18 out of 20 games they’re playing great but I’m not even sure that’s even real for Cleveland we can

Talk about that too but it feels like especially with Philly kind of being the bead muck right now the Bucks we’ll definitely talk about being kind of a mess um I would say yes to the boss and everybody else but it’s also I also get it because Boston has done this before

And it’s a little bit because you see you see Tatum and brown and those jerseys and you you reminded of all the of all the tantalizing Seasons but also you could say this is a different team they have porzingis they have dreal Derrick White’s playing great and uh just objectively speaking their resume

Is uh clearly the best not even close yeah I think certainly right now when just watching the NBA night toight who’s the best team in the NBA now Boston is clearly at least in the East Boston is the best team I don’t think there’s any argument qualitatively at the current

Moment it is Boston and everyone else like you said may maybe it’s just that the curse of of too much playoff experience like we’ve seen Boston in the playoffs so much therefore we’ve had more opportunities to see them fail because we’ve also seen some of these other teams fail in the in the

Postseason as well um in lower stages they haven’t even gotten where Boston has been so maybe it’s a little unfair to hold the playoff thing against Boston relative to these other teams um but I think right now it is Philly would be the only other team and I just

Don’t know how embiid is going to look when he comes back I don’t know how that I don’t really I don’t doubt that they’ll find the chemistry and and the cohesion that they had before he got injured but it all just comes down to when you have this one star team like

The the Sixers do you know they might have the best player in the world they certainly have the best player in the Eastern Conference I think at least when healthy um yeah but if we don’t know that he’s going to be that in every playoffs series then that changes the

Six a lot because they need him to be that against these best teams yeah they’re I almost don’t even want to talk about Philly I’m sure you get you get enough of Philly dealing with John on your podcast um and also it’s just it literally is unquantifiable it’s like I

Have to know what mbid is gonna look like yeah and or if he’s GNA play I mean there’s a chance he doesn’t play I mean that’s people have talked about that a little bit but it’s like it really is like people are just kind of assuming

He’s coming back I mean I guess he probably will back but even if he does we’ve seen him beat it less than full strength he’s not the same player I mean it’s happened in the playoffs multiple times like he’s still effective but if he’s dragging that knee around and I

Think he’s probably going to be dragging that knee around on some level like I they’re not they’re not good enough to your point they’re not good enough everywhere else Max is having a great season he’s a breakout guy that’s that’s a real thing and yeah they get they went

Get buddy heel buddy heal’s a good player but the rest of that roster we’ll leave max out we’ll say three through 12 is not that good I mean it’s solid but they need EMB to be embiid and I don’t think you can Bank on that look also they might be in the play

Him by the time this happens like if he’s out they’re probably going to be six at the absolute best because they’re not very good I mean without take him away like you’ve seen this I know you’ve following this they’ve been really not good since he went out like really bad

Like it’s they’ve gone into the tank and I think they’re probably better than they played so far without him but well they’ve got a lot of other injuries right now right not not just that that’s a good point Dey Melton’s been out for a long time three out of their five

Starters right now are on the injured list which is and and and they’re def behind and be you know it’s been a topic for a long time now you know Paul Reed is a I like Paul Reed but Paul Reed being your sun moon and stars at Center

Is not really gonna do it for you I don’t think um so anyway I almost want to throw them to the side so put put them to the side for now hopefully they hopefully I want to see him beat healthy so hopefully that gets that happens and it’d be fascinating if they were

Suddenly the seven seed and it beads healthy that’d be wild um Boston does not want Philly as the eight seed I can tell you that right now they don’t want that I would say just no I don’t think out of the available options I guess maybe actually I’d love to know if

They’d rather see Miami or Philly in the first round given all the history I think they would say Philly I think if you gave him true serum they’d say Philly oh man I I yeah I guess maybe I’m one day I’ll buy Miami this is not

That de I don’t I don’t buy I still don’t buy it I don’t buy and sell Philly I mean that’s the thing is like the Miami doing the thing that they that they both seem to always do the Sixers have a great regular season this is

Going to be the year and then somehow they find a way to to Fumble it in the playoffs and then they heat it’s like oh God this is the year finally just comes apart and they make the finals again and yeah and we’re on track for that again

Right and I I’ve kind of been on the corner of not buying man for a long time I was obviously very wrong last year in the playoffs I was very right in the regular season and very wrong in the playoffs I still don’t really buy it um

And part part of that is just while we’re here I don’t mean to challenge Jimmy Butler I don’t think he’s the same guy that he was two years ago um we saw it even last year in the playoffs and now they made the Run anyway but he had one

Series in him he played great against Milwaukee and then after that he was pretty human like he was not particularly good after that um and everybody else went nuclear Caleb Martin um the best stretch of uh of shooting B Gabe Vincent and his life yeah all stuff

So anyway maybe I’ll be wrong about Miami but we’ll see um so quickly on Boston I’ve always kind of not been a porzingis guy but he he looks great I think he’s he looks unbelievable I couldn’t believe he didn’t make the All-Star team he yeah I mean the only

Argument against him would have been he just hasn’t played that much that many games that would have been the only argument against him in make the All-Star team because I agree like he’s been awesome this year he’s been the guy that people might have thought he was

Before and he’s not been I think he is that guy now at least he has been this year for Boston he’s been awesome they still have Al who my age and still playing great I don’t know how he’s doing it but he’s still doing it um and

Drew is actually sneakily not been as good as he has been in Milwaukee but also he doesn’t have to be the beauty of Boston is that he can just be Drew and like he could just be like the fourth guy on offense and um the Dereck white

Thing kind of went off the rails for a while I love Dereck white but it was like Dereck White’s a tough 10 player in the league it’s like no he’s not please stop don’t do this um but anyway my instinct is the same one as everybody else’s to be like you know

What are we sure Boston and then my brain is like Boston’s legit like I I I do buy it as long as they’re fully healthy now the one thing about them they can’t really afford an injury like they don’t have the depth they have decent you know paint prit is fine if

You lose Derek white or JW holiday for a little while but in a playoff series do you want PT prit playing 30 minutes a game I don’t think so um they’re back you know I I like the tman move though yeah too for them um but anyway I don’t

Even know what I’m talking about it’s just I think Boston is the prohibitive favorite I would say that I they are the question the question is not who’s the favorite it’s the question is Boston versus the field yeah and I I don’t know which I think if you guaranteed me

Boston was healthy at the start of the playoffs and you said Boston in the field I think I would take Boston which scares the scar scares me to death but I think I would do that I’m with you every time I watch them I’m just like this

This is the best team in the East maybe the NBA they they just they look unbelievable they’re they’re Talent is is what it is obviously they fit like a glove they have so many different lineup combinations that they can go to and and like all their pieces seem to be

Interchangeable they their rotations just every they nail every fine point of the game on both ends of the floor um I think their ball movement looks really good their their offensive system principles Concepts all that just are are Rock Solid the one thing I worry about them worry about with them is

Tatum just because I I I almost said that because I it’s like do do they have the best player on the floor in a playoff series the answer is maybe not in a high I don’t even know if they have like could you argue that in the like is

There a chance that in the playoffs Jason Tatum is like the fourth or fifth best player in the East oh yeah I mean I because so so there’s a chance that every series they play in the playoffs he’s not the best player there is a chance of that I think

That um certainly against Milwaukee he’s not the best player yep uh if Philly if Philly is at full strength he’s not the best player I do think would be the other one just because dial it up before yeah I don’t know that one’s at least debatable because I think

Tatum is very clearly better in for 82 games and maybe Jimmy’s still better in the playoffs Jimmy has been better in the playoffs um I will say they you know he’s better than anyone New York has um you know brunson’s capable of exploding like that but I think Tatum’s

Better than Brunson um and you know after that like yeah there’s I’m trying to look at the bo I mean Cleveland is he the best player in the Cleveland series I I think he might not be the best offensive player player in that series I

I don’t think he is I I think Mitchell’s better on offense I agree and this is my thing with Tatum is just that I don’t like he’s he’s a great player but not for the reasons that I I think it it seems like people think we might have

Talked about this before where he’s just not a great individual shot Creator like that’s just not really his strength on the right night if he if he makes all of his step backs looks great and but that’s what it takes and and the percentages say that that’s not going to

Happen often enough for you win a playoff series on the back of that what he is great at is spot up shooting cutting attacking with an advantage screening moving the ball like he’s great at all of the Like the quote unquote role player things on offense

Which is not to say that he is a role player but he’s just like I think in the playoffs it’s not that you necessarily need like a Durant level shot maker but you just need someone who can be a shot Creator out of nothing so whether that

Shots for themselves or for a teammate you just needs someone that like you can give them the ball and seven eight times out of 10 they can get you an open shot you know like a like a a 40 to 50% shot and I don’t think Tatum’s that guy I

Don’t think he’s ever been that guy and he keeps getting better he gets better every year so maybe this playoffs is the one where he he finally puts that together watching him this season I don’t really see that I still see some uh some weaknesses of Rim finisher where

He does he’s not always the the craftiest or most versatile around the rim especially against bigger rim protectors um I don’t think he settles for as many difficult shots but I I also don’t think he’s significantly better at hitting those difficult shots the strength is still an issue to create

Separation so they’re just kind of these things that like when you stack him up against embiid Giannis even like Donovan Mitchell like those guys I feel more confident in to just be able to create a shot for themselves or for someone else that’s going to go in 40 to 55% of the

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Shot with FanDuel official sport partner of the NBA yeah and I think that the argument putting it sort of to the side is that like maybe they’re so good it doesn’t matter right you know what I mean they have so many other guys so well into that team concept too so I

Want to make sure we at least say that because like we we both just said they’re the best team in in the East and I I believe that and the argument is like especially now with porzingis is another outlet they have another guy who can get his own shot and then you have

Drew can do do that a little bit Derek White’s not really a shot make a shot Creator but he can make shots Brown can still create shots so it’s like they have enough it’s but it’s it does it’s that forever thing which I I’m kind of predisposed to battling against it but

It’s true that like you look at all the champions in history like they usually have a guy that does this stuff and he’s not that guy I mean last year in the playoffs so they obviously they beat the Hawks in the series Trey was the best offensive player in that Series yeah

Like it was not even particularly close it’s just that so much better than everything else which certainly that’s still would be the case now right but you figure maybe in a series against somebody that’s almost as good as them and everywhere else that that difference

Can be what swings it but maybe not I don’t want to say it’s impossible but as between it’s it’s that and just their General history and um I’m not sure I trust Missoula still I’m not I’m not saying I don’t but I’m not sure I do right I’m with you on

That uh so that that’s another thing and also just their their shot has been better this year um and I am you know this but F list probably know this too but I have no problem with them taking a lot of Threes like some people get mad

Never taking so many threes I don’t that’s not really a problem for me my problem is when their offense bogs down which we still see on occasion now everybody’s does but again that kind of goes back to the Tatum thing it’s like they don’t have the one guy you just

Throw the ball to they have to kind of get it another different ways and anyway uh we like Boston but well that’s the question for them though is is just like it is when the offense bogs down is your ball movement and and those like principle based things of your offense

Are those strong enough to hold up against a really good defense because that’s going to have to be the theory for them is and they’re number one in offense right now it’s funny because we’re we’re talking about their offense they’re number one in offense right now

Um going into the break as far and there’s no question that that that in the regular season and certainly the regular season two date that’s been the most effective I mean there’s no questioning that it’s just a translation thing when it comes to regular season versus playoffs and maybe they maybe

They are I mean when I watch them play I’m like this is the this is the best offense I’ve ever seen sometimes no I agree it’s smoothest thing that I’ve ever seen on a basketball court and so maybe it is good enough that like even a dialed in playoff defense is not going

To be able to do anything with that well this is this is sacrilege in these parts but um you could if one wanted to make a parallel between this Boston team and a certain 20145 Haw yes yes come on now Boston has more Talent than that Hawks

Team did I’ll be very clear about that Boston has more Talent they do Tatum is better than anybody that the Hawks had on that team very clear about that but that is maybe a parallel you could draw and that by the way that Hawks team was banged up in the playoffs they were

Not they were not their full self but they didn’t that doesn’t always work in the playoffs that that egalitarian everybody gets to do their own thing it’s not as easy in the playoffs um and and the League’s changed a lot since that’s why I’m not I’m not fully leaning

Into this take because the League’s very different now than it used to be but I’m just thinking of like obviously this is a haulk show but that’s a elite offense that we all knew as this beautiful game offense that didn’t have the guy on it and it didn’t necessarily work when they

Ran ran into a guy a team that had the guy on the other end so yeah I don’t know well it’s you mention the Le well no but you mentioned the league changing and and I think about this a lot too because you know the 2015 Hawks the 2014

Spurs and then eventually the 2016 Warriors kind of like elevated what those two teams were doing and took it to a new level but yeah going like those 14 Spurs and 15 Hawks teams especially at the time they were they were I think rightfully lawed as like oh my God look

At the way that they run offense no one else is doing this and now you watch the league and there are like eight or nine teams at least who look I mean if you just plotted the player movements in dots and watched it on a screen you’d be

Like oh this is the 2014 Spurs like the or when I watched the Orlando Magic the way they they don’t make shots obviously but the way that they move the ball the way they play offense I’m like wow this looks like they don’t make shots was

That was a funny I sorry laugh they don’t make shots though it doesn’t actually matter but the process the offensive process it’s not it’s not 20 I’m not going to go that far but I’m like this is pretty reminiscent of those what at the time we thought of as

Progressive offenses who were really like like pushing the envelope with these I guess I’ll call them like European Concepts you know kind the kind of free flowing like pace and space Concepts and now it’s like everyone’s doing that Boston has just perfected it at a level that’s higher than anyone

Else is doing right now well and that Spurs team and we’re off the rails here which is fine that Spurs team um had the names you know Duncan still there Parker job but you could argue that was the last team that didn’t have the guy that

Won the championship now Tim dunan is an all-time great I’m a huge Tim Duncan Stan oh yeah but that was that was age 37 Tim Duncan who was not the same player yeah um so you could argue that was the most galarian team that’s won the championship since then that was

That that was 10 years ago so like that’s a pathway and they ran you know similar stuff um but they also had that was a team where Boston has the experience in a lot of ways especially with with brown and Tatum and Horford um they’ve not won it and that Spurs team

Had winning experience already that was their last championship where they had already kind of done it they had Pop um who pop in 2024 isn’t necessarily I don’t think as dynamic as that guy was 10 years ago but like you know all that stuff we’ll see we’re that was a detour

That I that well maybe it’s like in every 10 years thing you know you had spurs in 14 the Pistons in exactly I guess the 94 Rockets had a Keem but they You could argue they sort of played that like yeah the 04 Pistons are the ones

That always gets that I I think it’s because Duncan was on the 14 team that they don’t get they usually don’t get brought it’s everybody always goes back to the last time last time that a team the championship without a superstar without without a true star was the was

The Pistons in ‘ 04 when really it was the 14 I think it was the spur yeah certainly but it’s just that they had three Hall of Famers but they were three Hall of Famers who the the the a the the onea Hall of Famer wasn’t the same guy

Anymore may it was already older too and Parker was always kind of their you know it was is a Hall of Famer but he wasn’t ever like a top 10 player in the world um so well at that point he was kind of there de facto

Off you know like if someone had to create out of out of isolation or pick and roll it was him but it it was much more about the ball movement and and they had young Kawai a very very young Kawai Danny Green making every shot for

Weeks um anyway um that was that was fun we like basketball yeah okay we’ve done nothing else on this podcast anyway well so if I can add real quick I I actually do think we might be due for another one of these teams winning because the state of the league

Right now is such that the the star Talent like the really high-end Talent is arguably more evenly dispersed than it’s been in a while like like decades maybe since there’s there’s there there’s no super team that’s for sure no super team each team kind of and this is partly because of the financial

Realities of the league now and how that’s changed partly I think because of the player movement like the the post 20109 Aftershock that we’re kind of still feeling the the league right now is is relatively flat in terms of Team quality and Star Distribution which I

Think go hand inand so maybe we are in a place where like there isn’t that team that has so much star Talent the Bucks I think would be the one team that that might dis prove this if they can ever get it together but there may not be a

Team with so much topend talent that a team like Boston who has just like not quite Elite but just like so many sub elite players right like Allstar to sub Allstar level guys they have six or seven of those guys five or six of those

Guys they have so much of that like like low-end high-end Talent if that makes sense and they play way that’s so so connected that that they actually can overcome that absence of a of a true highend offensive star yeah you could certainly um you could argue I think

Reasonably that Derrik white is a top 50 player I don’t think you can get to the top 25 which stuff that I was hearing before but like he’s a good and then obviously Drew is up there and then the other three um so yeah you could argue

They have five of the top 50 players in the league You could argue that and it would be reasonable and then you got Al Horford who is kind of its own thing but if you your six best player and he is that’s not a bad place to be even if

Even at age 84 whatever Al is at this point um all right rapid fire from here to get you out of here Ben Cleveland Milwaukee New York Cleveland’s 18 and 20 in the LA 18- two in the last 20 that’s insane um Milwaukee I uh I don’t I don’t know and

Then New York was super hot when they were healthy when OG came they dominated for like almost a month he got hurt and they have a bunch of injuries they’ve lost four in a row um and I I candly just don’t trust the Knicks I don’t know

What it is maybe it’s part of what we’re talking about with Boston and they don’t have the guy that I trust but their defense is really good and also tibs tibs playoff record’s not great no um so I say all that who do you like the most out of those three teams playoff

Wise and who you who you like the least out of those three teams playoff wise because they’re kind of in a mix like we all thought Milwaukee was going to be number two or number three yeah and they’re not playing at that level but they also have Giannis and Dame and uh

Doc’s a proven coach I don’t know if it’s proven in the way everybody loves but doc he certainly been around for a while I do think doc I we’ll say this I do think Doc is an upgrade on Adrian Griffin does does that mean anything

Maybe not but I think Doc is better than ad Adrian Griffin but who time will tell time time will indeed tell uh time you could argue Time Has Told in some senses with do already he h hey he he won the he won a championship he’s a

Championship coach that is true a long long time ago and I will say not I’m not a doc guy necessarily I think he might get it might be a little bit aggressive to be like I’ve seen people be like well he he’s never done anything um other

Than that 2018 that’s not really true like I think he’s I think he’s yeah he’s not a bad coach I agree with that I don’t think that Doc is a playoff Difference Maker as a head coach um but I don’t think he’s a he’s a bozo either

Does that make sense yeah oh I mean he’s he’s won tons of NBA games yeah it’s gotten to be this like caricature of Doc the especi and I get it the last couple weeks it’s been his interviews and the J reic thing happened this week and like I

It’s all very strange but I think it’s gotten to be like the character version of Doc where he’s like not now he’s a bum and it’s like I don’t think that’s that’s that’s not true I don’t think I I just don’t think that he’s great either yeah he’ll he’ll help stabilize the

Bucks in all likelihood well he hasn’t yet but yeah well yeah and and I you know the Bucks are yeah there’s a lot going on there I I think of those three teams ah boy I know same okay I’ll just I’ll give you a second I’m still gonna this is gonna I’m

Still going to say Milwaukee I’m leaning that way I cuz it’s less about them yeah agreed it’s less about them than it is about the other two and I think Cleveland’s been awesome in this stretch I just have to see them do it they were so bad in that Playoff Series last year

Like it was UN they were that was a collapse like you yeah people I think it’s almost gotten underplayed how bad they were for a top three four seed in the Eastern confence to like truly no show the way they did in that series against a pretty mediocre Nicks team

They got routed and they’re better than that but like I I don’t know about Cleveland I’m not saying they can’t do it I just don’t necessarily buy it and then you know New York is just can they score I I don’t know if they can score at the highest highest

Highest levels maybe they can and OG that was a great move and they I will say on the side of the Knicks that first week post OG maybe for 10 days they looked incredible they were terrifying and if they guard like that you know what it is man this is Hawks podcast I

Don’t trust Julius raidel yeah neither do I at all none zero well and and my hope is that their roster OG in particular but some of their roster editions around the deadline will sort of like adjust the the hierarchy and the ecosystem in a way where Julius Randall doesn’t have to try

To be the player that he’s had to be the last few years yes we’ll see you know that’s always that’s always more of a theoretical thing with some guys than others I don’t know how it’s going to look for him um but his playoff track record is not great uh I I think

Predictably like he he just the way he plays is not something that I on paper would say would translate to the playoffs very well and it hasn’t in his career so far but maybe now he’s in a more suitable role that’s that’s kind of the hope I don’t know if that is the

Case because I I still think they lack some offensive Firepower like you were saying I think their their path is through defense but they have a great defense and their personnel defensively they certainly could in the playoffs yeah I mean um and shoo and they have so

It’s it’s if they you know they have the guys who can kind of pay off the open looks if they can create them it’s just unclear whether Jaylen Brunson alone is enough to do that yeah I agree and he’s had a great year too Bronson’s been

Great he’s been better this year than I ever thought he would be gotta be honest about that um I just the Randall thing um they’re also like this is very simplistic but it feels like they are a team that goes to the old adage of like regular season team versus playoff team

Like I think the way that they’ve built this with truly with depth depth defense and a bunch of like super high role players it’s usually I want to say always usually a a kind of a Hallmark of a team that overachieves in the regular season and underachieves in the playoffs

Yeah that’s very simplistic but it has it’s just happened a lot of times before so and again without without the guy because I don’t Jay bruss has been great this year I don’t think he’s going to be able to carry them right maybe he will there have been Knights one he certainly

Has this year um and OG I I like to see more from them I just I don’t know if I buy it so long Preamble I man I think I’m gonna just default to Milwaukee because I’ve just seen them do it and I think that Dames had a quietly not good

Season and I think people kind of forgotten that for whatever reason and uh I think Hawks fans are on it because they are arguing I think correctly that Tre T better than Dame this year um but I I still kind of trust Dame to kind of figure it out and hopefully can like

Look at a spreadsheet and be like hey why don’t we use Dam and Yannis together you know what I mean and then defensively it’s it’s already been a little bit better since doc took over offensively it’s not been better but I I don’t I can’t imagine them being this

Bad on offense with Dam and Yannis it just doesn’t make sense to me at all I agree and I think the flip side of the Dame conversation being quietly not great is that Giannis I think has been quietly at least relatively quietly amazing yeah I think he’s like now that

Embiid is injured I think Giannis is in there for for JIS jannis should be yeah I I I do think that it’s been a lot I’m sure you’ve seen this too the last week or so two weeks or whatever since the straw pole came out the monms by the way

I’m a voter in that um nice it’s been a lot of yic and Shay and I think Jana should be up there with them I agree I agree and I think luuka and kawhai are nipping on his heels as well yeah no it’s it’s it’s pretty open like I I

Still think that you know it’s nothing wrong with voting for yic yic has been the best player in the world for the last couple years I’m not yeah I’m not I’m not against that I just think that if you’re if you’re going to go beyond that I think that Janis should be right

There he’s been very very good and the problem is that BCS have been underachieving so he won’t get the attention but it’s not really been his fault yeah I I think the Dame thing is is the the key for them it I mean it’s just they’re gonna go as he goes I think

Because he is the piece that like he’s the guy that takes them from one Superstar to two if if he can get to that level and there’s no one else that can say that and he has a man I mean I know he he had a great allstar game who

Cares but yeah I I think that the theory of adding Dame was that you know their Milwaukee and this is correct at some level that Milwaukee’s playoff offense even when they won the championship it bogged down a lot and they they they got through it but it was

Never what it could have been because Drew was overtasked as the primary initiator and they didn’t and damus rightly it’s supposed to be a huge upgrade on that and if you can kind of unlock that um and then get enough defense because Dam’s defense is pretty

Bad at this point but um they’re betting on that and uh I don’t know if I believe it but yeah it would also be nice if this is more of a deep cut it’d be cool if they got something from Pat conon what what happened to patcon yeah I’ve been

Wondering that myself he just he just doesn’t look like the I don’t know what’s going he doesn’t I mean they just the problem is they just need a wing that can kind of he’s the guy that they need right round out the Giannis Middleton Malik beily can’t defend

Anyone and he’s their offensive guy and he’s a great shooter if you want to go Scorch on offense throw Beasley out there and you’re going to score you should score it’s just that I don’t think you can guard you can’t play Damon Beasley defensively I don’t think yeah

For any I guess at least in real time so between Crowder who I don’t think has it or conon they need one more guy they just haven’t found that guy and man this is this is just for me to stay on brand I would love to know if Milwaukee called thean

Right yeah because they signed Gallow before Delan went to Miami and D would have been like a great guy for Milwaukee to get and I wonder if that was like a Delon was like Hey I’m going to Miami or if they did they didn’t even call him

Because that would have been they should have called him if they didn’t call him well they picked up Pat Bev too I wonder if they felt like that addressed the need I mean I I would disagree with that but danana is much better than Pat Bev what for what for what they actually

Need Pat Bev is a good uh instigator but Delana is bigger and uh can actually defend better than beev can now beev is a better shooter right but I don’t know if that matters next because you know yeah I don’t know yeah I’m also I’m also

Hopelessly in the tank for d w so there’s that right yeah as as you’ve always been and rightfully so frankly yeah the other thing with Cleveland to to hit on those other teams Cleveland is interesting to me because you mentioned that 18 and two stretch and a lot of

That came with Evan Moy and Darius Garland out they were injured and so yeah they to me they have a lot to figure out with with how their four best players fit together and I wonder like because part of their part of their success is you know such a big part of

That was not only Donovan Mitchell and Jared Allen playing arguably their best basketball of the Season or even of their careers um but it was like the stuff they were getting from their bench and from their role players like Sam Merrill stepping into the the shooting role Craig Porter Jr playing really well

For them as as kind of a sneaky like like cutting screening Ball moving role player who can also shoot a little bit they were getting a lot from those guys and if you’re playing your four best players together now there’s only room for one of those players that you are

Getting contributions from Off the Bench which isn’t a bad thing in itself but I just wonder if like are Mitchell and Garland and Allen and Mobley so redundant with each other that you you kind of run into some issues there where you want to get some different skills on

The floor but you don’t really have enough lineup space to make it work because you you kind of want what Isaac aoro brings you defensively you kind of want what Sam Merill brings you defensively but you can only play Five Guys on the floor obviously at the same

Time and it’s correct but you also it doesn’t it seems crazy to to like bench one of Garland or or Mitchell or one of Allen or Mo it’s just like where you go they’re kind of stuck in I mean it’s it’s not a terrible problem to have because they’re all good players but

They are kind of boxed into this this weird lineup they just they just don’t fit they’re obviously their top four players they just don’t fit perfectly together and that’s it’s okay it’s kind of how life works sometimes but um there they’re both overlap so much and what

They do I mean and I think Mitchell who I’ve always been a little lower than everybody else it seems like he was unlocked as the as the guy like the clear point guard when Garin was out he started playing his best basketball of the year and you know

Moy is kind of a center playing power forward and it’s and Allen’s been great so it’s like I don’t know what you I don’t offensively I don’t know if they can get where they got to get playing wi and Allen yeah but you can’t can’t not play bubbly it’s not really well and

Then defensively can you get where you need to go playing Garland and Garland and Mitchell yeah and also do you get enough from Garland if you let Mitchell cook the way he the way he has been cooking for the last couple months do you get enough from Garland

Because of his defensive limitations if he’s going to be just an mostly an off ball guy like he can shoot he’s still G to help you on offense but like is that enough and I don’t I’m not I’m not sure so yeah they’re in a tricky spot and

Then New York like the kind of the opposite we’re not as talent but just incred fit and depth fit defense I don’t I don’t trust tips but also I don’t trust Cleveland coaching situation either I don’t know there isn’t that’s kind of I was gonna say that’s kind of the sneaky thing about

This whole Eastern Conference playoff R other than other than SPO who is coaching what I think is like the eighth best team in the conference right now I don’t love any of the coaching at the top of the East yeah you could say Nick nurse if you he’s done a good job but

Like Philly is just such a unknown because what we talked about before like yeah I I think he’s probably the best coach other than SPO at the top of that list but I is he gonna have him beat I don’t know so we’ll see Rick carlile’s

Been a good playoff coach but I just don’t think is serious yeah I just don’t think that they’re you they got they got seak I’m to be better now and they are better with him but like I they’re not quite there as far as like an actual no

I’m with you threat to beat someone good maybe they maybe they could win a series if they got to like if they got to play you know it wouldn’t St me if if Indiana got like beat Cleveland or New York in the series that wouldn’t like Blow Me

Away but they’re not beaten Boston I don’t think I agree um anyway all right well Ben thank you for all this time we could go two hours we always could but uh we will sign off now um anything else to plug I know we should plug read and

React great podcast read and react podcast yeah my John saber and myself talking about the NBA sometimes insightfully I hope and uh that’s I I usually come on once a year before the draft I’m ready to do that again if you want me to uh that’ll be several month

From now but we’re getting there I had to turn into a mock draft the other day and I was like oh it’s February I’m talking I’m turning into a mock draft this is this is a tough scene and by the way this class is not great anyway Ben

That’s what I’ve heard yeah that’s I’m sure you’ve watched a lot of these prospects so far you’ve been grinding the tape on the I don’t believe you uh B lad everybody thank you for being here as always um please follow read and react please subscribe to this podcast

As well Lots on Hawks where anywhere you get your podcasts Apple Spotify YouTube Etc check out Ben’s work check out my work if you want to and we’ll see you all next time

Brad Rowland (@BTRowland, DIME on UPROXX) hosts episode No. 1658 of the Locked on Hawks podcast, and he is joined by Ben Ladner (@bladner_) for Part 2 of a 2-part discussion. The conversation includes the state of the Atlanta Hawks at the All-Star break, observations from afar, how good the Hawks actually should be, the Eastern Conference landscape, the Play-In race, and much more.

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