Why T.J. McConnell & Ben Sheppard have become important for Indiana Pacers | Buddy Hield talks trade

Why T.J. McConnell & Ben Sheppard have become important for Indiana Pacers | Buddy Hield talks trade

Let’s dive deeper on the energy givers TJ McConnell Ben Shepard their importance to the Pacers and why they’ve been playing so well of late and why they’re critical to the Pacers success plus buddy heel talks Pacers trade and the Timberwolves tonight we’ll talk about it all on today’s locked on Pacers

Podcast you are locked on Pacers your daily Indiana Pacers podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day what up y’all happy Thursday and welcome into another edition of the lockon Pacers podcast where are we of course talk about the Indiana Pacers as always

My name’s Tony East I cover the team for Forbes and Si and today lots to get to talking about two Pacers bench guys who have really been transformative of late Ben Shepard and TJ McConnell McConnell a standout from this road trip shining in every way hitting a very very unique

Shot diet to keep the Pacers a float and Ben Shepard the chosen one on the defensive end hitting his Corner threes now becoming an important player could he be an ideal fit for this Pacers team long term we’ll talk about all that with Jonathan wurn and much more today the

Dean of mortgages himself plus buddy heeld talked with Jake fiser about the the trade from the Pacers to the Sixers and his thoughts about it and the Pacers play the best defense in the NBA the Minnesota Timberwolves tonight we have so much to get to let’s just Dive Right

In with John wasburn much to talk about with some someone who has I don’t believe been on lock on Pacers before formerly with 8.9 seconds when it was with ESPN’s true hoop Network and with Jared Wade leading the way and the Fieldhouse the greatest temporary place for Pacers coverage of all time it’s

John wurn the dean of mortgages himself John the Pacers won finally after a very crummy two game stretch their benches rocking again buddy heels talking about his trade for the first time and they play the best defense in the league tonight man we have a lot to get to so

So much to talk about thanks so much for having me on I’m super pumped it’s it’s an interesting time I just learned Carl Anthony towns is not playing tomorrow which takes a little bit out of Timberwolves Pacers but he’s not a good defensive player so we’ll see what that

Actually ends up meaning for the game I wanted to talk about one bench player when I led you topics for today and you wanted to talk about a different one so we’re just gonna talk about both and we’re gonna start with TJ McConnell who had was like the only consistent

Performer this entire road trip he wasn’t that great in New Orleans but the 26 game in San Antonio the 13- seven last night and as I talked about in my postgame show the key stretch he had was when the Mavs started the fourth quarter with both Kyrie and Luca in and Rick

Caros said I’m going all five bench guys and McConnell kept up with them specifically and he’s playing very well recently and I have two takes I want to bounce off of you about that one is a lazy one which is the Pacers aren’t playing particularly well and it doesn’t

Look like it’s working very well and yet every game T.J McConnell is ball of energy get in the lane get guys moving get things moving around so when the team looks lethargic he just looks amazing because he’s the only thing that can keep them rolling and the second

Thing is and we’ll dive into the numbers this in a second is his fit with halbert’s gotten better and the numbers with those two both on the floor fantastic what say you about T.J McConnell’s recent level of play amid a not great Pacer stretch yeah what is there to say about

TJ mcconell he was playing so well against the Spurs that you know I sent out and obviously uh sarcastic poll who would you rather build your team around Victor wanyama or T.J McConnell and there were a lot of T.J McConnell votes that’s how great he was playing playing

Um especially in that Spurs game yeah um he does I I’m gonna try to avoid all of the classic cliche things that we say about Scrappy white guys right oh I know I just said one but I just love the way he plays and my favorite thing about T.J

McConnell is this year the Pacers told him pre-season I don’t know if we really have space for you essentially right we’ve got a lot of guards um you’re it’s looking like you’re the odd man out and he was like BET right okay we’ll see what happens and it it showed very early

On like five six games in the team needs TJ McConnell um and I don’t I don’t understand why he is basically unguardable why can’t anybody stay in front of this guy uh some of the stats I’ve seen you know throughout the year he’s getting into the lane more than you

Know the majority of NBA players how is he doing this and just like you said he plays with such a different pace that that it’s always looking like he he comes in and he elevates things so yeah the his effect on the offense his effect

On the defense his effect on the team uh is just incredible yeah it’s wild that he can be this effective right like because he doesn’t shoot that well he’s been making threes recently which is of course important after the big season you had last year but you know I talked

About this Nat Newell nailed it he called it thrks right threes and dunks and usually you know a guy of his size in the league has to shoot to be good everybody who plays a lot or consistently that doesn’t make threes like I just pulled up the list of all

NBA players sorted by threes everybody who has like one or fewer is all centers and then it’s like Ben Simmons and um the guy with the p last year Germaine Samuels with the Rockets the first hard I at the 119th player in the league it’s Markel folz right like it it’s so hard

To be short and very valuable without being super athletic or a great shooter and yet McConnell finds a way because he’s always probing the thing that I asked a lot of people about this last year for a story about like how he’s always getting in the lane they all

Think it’s because of his low center of gravity like you can’t get low and get in a stance and stand in front of him because he can just get lower immediately by crouching down and he’s one of the best at that Nash move under the basket where you get close and then

You pull out really quick and get out to the and all of a sudden a defense is like rotating and scared and the shot’s not good but the fact that he’s willing to take it now is at least a weapon so he has all these like little tools and

The fact that he is in a group of like Mark Kel folz ish Smith uh that might be it of guys who can somehow be useful in the NBA without being a great shooter or being like athletic and being able to pop at The Rim is just incredible and it

It speaks volumes that little fallway shot he takes in the mid-range I see him work on it like literally every practice and the fact that he’s always doing what you said you know they didn’t have him in the rotation and then the only time they played 10 guys when they needed

Energy right well turns out you need that every game as a young team so they’ve got to turn to him I think he’s proven his value with a unique skill set at really every turn yeah and I think he he is a great shooter from his spot

Right um this year he’s shooting 59% from between three and 10 feet and I think what’s interesting is for a lot of guards that’s like floater range he doesn’t shoot floaters right he shoots fullon jump shots often Fade Away jump shots with that very very high release

Which by the way you know as a former coach I think that’s why he struggles with three-pointers because he has to bring the ball up so high because he was probably shooting over bigger more athletic players his whole life so he brings the ball up so high to avoid

Getting blocked and when you bring the ball up that quickly um that high that quickly it’s hard to get you know enough power to shoot from distance but when you when he’s at 8 feet 9et 10 feet from the basket he’s money and you know I think it’s I think it’s very cool

Because so many guys like I said in that range are going to floaters are going to creative finishes you know they’re doing all of the the Kyrie Irving beautiful stuff and his is very efficient right his his is just like very practical what

Is what is the way for me to do this I’m gonna stop turn Fade Away High you know Hier arching um little jump shot and it’s it’s just beautiful it’s I think it’s really interesting like him and J Brunson kind of do finish similarly from that range you know and neither of those

Guys is a guy that can go into traffic and like you know finish round and over people as much but they can stop under control good footwork make those little jumpers and if it’s like Dirk right Dirk from 15 18 foot on the fadeaway it’s like he you can’t defend it he either

Makes it or miss it and TJ’s making it a lot this year the entire guard crew might be him full ish Smith and Blake Wesley with the Spurs who I didn’t realize he only made four threes this season he’s shooting 12.9% so that’s a yikes but either way the fact that it’s

Such a small crew is is very telling of his game and you’re right about the way he shoots that shot the mechanics of it and I I think he had to work on it in a specific way to get it up like you can see throughout his career just from the

Basketball reference splits on how often he shoots and where he shoots from that he was like okay I got to get this like three to 10 foot area as a part of my bag like it kept going up and up and up and this year it’s almost 40 % of his

Shots that’s a career high for sure and he just happens to be lights out from there almost 60% like even if it’s a 48% shot it’s not that valuable right and that 48 is still a solid percentage so it has to be good good like really good and he especially recently has

Absolutely been lining it up and that’s a big reason why something I talked about yesterday they’re able to stagger so well is he can play with other guys because he can self-create but he can also lead a fiveman bench Group which is important so let let me read you some

Numbers let’s get dorky for a second this is huge for the Pacers this year right when tyres halbert’s on and T.J McConnell’s not we know their offensive rating is great it’s 23.7 when McConnell’s the guard and halbert’s not on the floor at all their offensive rating is 11 18.4 that’s still really

Good right it’s not as awesome as the Pacers are all the time but the fact that they can be at a really high offensive level without their star on the floor says a lot about how McConnell is able to run their team and when they’re both out there in 102 minutes

Their offensive rating is 131.5 which is a fake number and says that they’ve only played 100 minutes together but it’s still insane so his his ability to hit that shot and be this kind of player I don’t think there’s any way he can be a dncd ever again because there’s so many games

Where he’s their only offense and he fits with their star now which at least has this season which is really important yeah no and there’s something yeah there there’s just something about certain players on every team that when they play well it adds energy in a

Different way to the rest of the team and TJ’s definitely if not the guy he’s one those guys on you know on the Pacers when they love when when he comes in and and swipes you know an inbounds pass after a make right and you know they

Love when he gets going sometimes and he he goes at a guy two three four times in a row scores six eight eight bucket or eight points in a row um and it’s just yeah the the the energy involved when he gets going it it jump starts the rest of

The Pacers in a way that it doesn’t necessarily do it with some of the other guys well you just said energy givers John which means I contractually required to easily transition to the other guy you want to talk about for those who don’t understand who want some inside baseball and podcasting which

Sounds like the dorkiest thing of all time I told John some stuff I want to talk about and he said I have some Ben Shepard big picture of the future of the two position thoughts and every time someone has thoughts they want to share I’m putting it early in the

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Four threes he fights over screens he’s awesome what say you of Ben Shepard and the future of the two position with the Pacers because I have a hunch that I’m gonna have a similar take to you but we’ll see where you go with this yeah so

I keep watching I keep watching what he brings offensively and defensively offensively the ball doesn’t stick with him I think he’s eventually going to be a better shooter than his percentages show this year he’s already shot much better as of late than he did earlier in

The season so you see that starting to come around um but just you know the usage rate that he needs on offense and the defensive versatility intensity that he brings on defense is there is this guy the future starting to for the Indiana Pacers I was really big

On wanting to see the nard experim experiment and I think I’m done seeing the nard experiment I like Andrew neard I think he’s a great player I don’t think he quite brings enough juice to the offense um to be that guy in the starting lineup long term whereas what Shepard has done

On both ends of the floor I think if you have if you believe that Tyrese halberton is the engine of you know a contender which I do believe he is on offense you’re gonna want him to have the ball as much as possible and you’re GNA want to surround him with good

Shooters and good Defenders and if you’ve got Tyrese as the primary playmaker you’ve got Pascal as the secondary playmaker miles is going to do his thing I think it might make sense long term to fill those other two Wing positions with Shepard and and and N

Smith um I I don’t think Shepard’s ready yet but I’m thinking long term Shepard might be the guy that puts mathin obviously into a a six-man type of role a guy that can finish games you know come in carry carry bench units and such I don’t necessarily know if if I’m not

Going to say that Ben Shepard’s more talented than Matan I’m just thinking big picture of how the team is put together is Shepard potentially an option you know as a long-term starting to I’m a huge Andrew nard guy as many as many know and I think he might be the

Best Premier defender on the team right now he should start to me here’s what here’s what’s changed for me and what has gotten me thinking about what you just said is they have sakam now right so with the starter specifically the secondary ball handling of nard is less

Important and he’s been more efficient because they have two other stars he could play off of but he doesn’t have to get his own shot as much he doesn’t need to be creating as often and we just talked about Halbert and plus McConnell lineups right there’s less stuff where

When Mard running the show at all so he could have a bigger role if McConnell’s ever not on the team but as it stands right now his role is different than it was even a month and a half ago when they didn’t have sakam and so because of

That I have thought about and I talked about this with wil for on the show right after the the uh the All-Star break is like what is the uh of all the NBA players right now not non-star Edition like rule out you know the best shooting guard in the league who’s the

Best two guard fit next to Tyreek talber and it’s the guy who just won the title to me it’s just a coincidence but that kind of fit next to Jamal Murray for example Casey P right someone like that Wings sized good shooter doesn’t need the ball really consistent and I feel like Ben

Shepard can let me let me be very clear not saying he will that’s a really high bar kcp is really good K good but the defense is impressive I’ve said I think the P’s best fiveman defensive lineup has Ben Shephard in it so far the shooting has been fantastic from the

Corners right I pulled this up before we started because I figured we’d get to this from the corners he’s 20 for 44 from above the break he’s 12 for 45 right he’s got to get all those eventually and it’s a longer three from above the break than he’s accustomed to

From college but you know if he can become that type of player all the time I I think that that is in theory the ideal guy in the framework of the Pacers two stars at the two similar to what neith skill set is in a way maybe

They’ll need more ball handling as this team evolves and then n hard will still be the answer but that I think there’s a pretty good chance or at least you know the framework of a chance that at least at least the idea of what Ben Shepard could be that that you’re absolutely

Right yeah like I like how the ringer puts it in their draft coverage will let say shades of right this guy has shades of so and so I see shades of kcp or that you know that that type of player find some other names but don’t always say

Kcp so continue while I look at name gotcha yeah no I see I see see shades of kcp and I agree with you about nard his skill set once we got SE yakum is a little bit redundant there’s a little bit too much overlap between them and I

Almost wonder like a uh you know a long-term future second unit of nard and Maan um with you know a starting lineup of you know uh Shephard with Tyrese in the back court I I watch this and when it looks good it makes sense to me you

Know the the the puzzle pieces fit together in my mind um in a in a in a really cool way yeah like I I actually couldn’t come up with anybody fast enough um but I agree with you there and and fit is a big part of it when you get

The Stars right is and this is what the Nuggets kind of did you know they’re the recent Champions so I feel like it’s lame to just be like and lazy to just be like let’s talk about the nuggets and how they build their team but similarly they had a brilliant passer star and

They figured out what fit around that kind of player so even if they hadn’t won the title they’d be an interesting at least test case of what the Pacers could think about emulating and they had the you know the idio chin Murray and then they added Aaron Gordon and then

They added kcp like that’s the they figured out the fits and went that way so maybe Shepard can be one of those guys that just makes a lot of sense in the same way that Smith has turned out to be in the S way that Miles Turner has

Been a wonderful fit we’ll see but I think I agree with you I’m I’m big on what Ben Shepard has been doing and clearly they are too because they’re playing him but I I’m trying to not be just like Ben Shepard’s been a good fit because of these things like I want to

See if he continues to seem like a good option if the threes stop falling because then it’s like well maybe you go to Doug McDermot because he’s a rookie and then don’t worry about that next year you just go Shephard the whole time I don’t know but as the threes are

Falling you certainly continue to play him the rest of the way yeah know Caitlyn Cooper wrote a you know fantastic thing just looking at his Closeouts right and so the last several games that he’s played I know he missed a couple games um I’ve been watching his

Close out so any of you out there that you know you’re not familiar with fo baby yeah you’re not familiar with the Ben sheeper experiment next time he comes in watches Closeouts right you know they’re just very clean um he he doesn’t get blown by he he’s he’s long

Enough to to Really um you know challenge shots and um you know he does the little things the way he navigates screens and fights through those screens defensively the way he’s played against some bigger stronger guys already as a rookie this young it’s just really

Exciting um and you know that yeah I see the outline the shades of the type of player that I think could be the perfect you know fifth piece in that lineup if you’re thinking you know Tyrese and N Smith and seak and Turner are pretty solid you know pretty sure bets to fill

Those other four for the you know for the foreseeable future Shepard is the type of guy I think that could maybe fit okay here’s another shades of this guy played this exact role on a very good Houston Rockets team Eric Gordon when he was at his best right like he was very

Much that kind of guy next to harden next to Chris Paul whatever he was playing more three for a very small team but something like that makes a lot of senses like this is what is going to fit next to tyres Halburn one more break here guys we got to talk

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Guaranteed uh John the reason that the discussion on the Pacers starting two guard is a discussion at all is because they traded away one buddy healed this season uh made a lot makes some sense doesn’t make some other sense some other ways perhaps given his uh desire to be

Traded it makes some sense as Greg Doyle reported perhaps given uh that the Pacers got worse in the season they want to make the playoffs it doesn’t but there is a lot of factors to play for all Stu well buddy heeld talked to Jake fiser about the trade I think it was

Very interesting some of the quotes that came out of this uh and so I want to talk about it for a little bit uh the first one John if you’ll let me read from Buddy heel to Jake fiser in Yahoo sports if you’d like to read this says

Quote if a team doesn’t want to re resign you we asked them early and you know how it is it’s the game heel told yaho Sports they say they want to sign you and then after it does happen the conversations don’t really keep going on the phone it’s like talking to a wall

And nobody’s responding back but after that you’re under contract and you have to honor your contract so it’s one of those deals you just got to come in every day and be professional but I know the vibe was so different well okay this is so interesting because what we heard

Before the season what was reported was that they were at an impass on an extension which they wouldn’t know that unless the Pacers offered an extension to Buddy healed so I think saying they didn’t offer a contract right that that they may is telling to me that

Maybe they didn’t maybe as the season progressed the Pacers decided no here’s what I think I don’t know any of this I haven’t actually asked anyone since this article came out I think before the season the Pacers were interested in extending body heeld and I think they

Had a number in their head that they thought made sense and clo buddy Hill did not agree with that number and I think they had to offer it for them to know they were far apart get to this point but I think what happened is when

They got Pascal cakam all of a sudden when the luxury tax became this this potential barrier there not not only is their number important that the Pacers originally had in their head it might become a hard Line in the Sand and if heeld is just gonna say no way well

Then yeah they’re not they’re not gonna up up tox or or offer it again so what I think that sounds like is as soon as extension talks were dead heeled May that what it reads like in what I think is reality they both are married and

Make sense it just kind of reads like that’s not the case so I think he’s right to feel that way but I also think the Pacers are right to have changing Dynamics if the situation given that they made a huge trade in January that’s just my thoughts on that there’s one

More quote I want to get to what what what say you to that yeah so um again I don’t I don’t know exactly what went down behind closed doors right I’m sure the Pacers will say one thing I’m sure buddy I mean buddy is saying another

Thing the thing that um kind of struck me as weird about that quote um was I don’t know if I’m sure you remember the the article that came out about the Pacers as an organization as a whole I think it was maybe two years ago I think

It was on the ringer maybe may have been somewhere else but the whole idea was like the Pacers are always honest with their players and it’s like Jonathan we report 20201 I think yeah there we go talking about and it talked about how how transparent they are with their

Players like something like yeah you’re probably not in our picture long term this is what we would like to do what would you like to do what where would you like to go let’s just be honest with you we’re a small Market team we don’t have the ability to pull Dar Daryl Mory

Stuff with with with players and just do you know whatever they want to do um and I never heard any players or any you know former Pacers or current Pacers come out and be like no that’s false like it seemed like this was like pretty standard operating procedure for the

Pacers so what buddy said went down I just like kind of immediately thought like that doesn’t necessarily seem to be par for the course for this organization I didn’t know but that it didn’t strike me as that way and it seemed more like um yeah I think what you said Pro may

Have happened right they offered a number and to buddy that that wasn’t a real offer right it was a real offer from the Pacers perspective but to buddy he’s thinking I’m one of the greatest you know 10 greatest three-point Shooters of all time I’m best friends with Tyrese Halbert and of course you’d

Want me oh that’s not a real offer maybe he got his feelings hurt I’ll give Buddy this though he played hard he helped the pages a lot early this year he was part of one of the greatest offenses you know statistically that we’ve ever seen and

There’s a lot of Pacers fans all over everywhere that always get you know are infuriated by Buddy’s lack of defense or you know if he’s not hitting his shots what is he doing right and well he’s spacing the floor and he’s he’s a he he’s moving the ball and he did a lot

For the Pacers but yeah that that specific quote from the Yahoo article today yeah my my uh BS detector kind of went up a little like I wonder if that’s actually true usually on stuff like that you know we know what happened we have actions that can tell us some of the

Story I always try to marry up what they’re saying with what else has been reported and try to see okay can this all make sense can everybody what they’re saying what they believe actually like follow some path of reality and that’s why I think the seum

Trade has to be aor right all of a sudden their situation changed in a meaningful way which made it harder for even if they already were at an impa it makes it harder for their goals to be the same immediately right because their financial situation is so much different

And their team Situation’s different right they need a different kind kind of starting lineup that’s the other thing he said that was really interesting he said I think that was the most challenging part was the indecision just like with games we had a lot of guards and we didn’t ever know what decision

Rick was gonna make who’s starting who’s not and how they feel about you I know there was a feeling when they weren’t feeling too hot about me I know there were a lot of decisions like who’s going to be on the court who’s not I just know

It was at the point in the season where it was like all right I need to get out of here so I get I get from his from his perspective thinking hey if they are going to play me off the bench and not feel hot about me I’m about to be a free

Agent like I want to play I want to make shots I want to get picked that’s good business by him I think um but I I also think the Pacers largely made mostly smart lineup decisions All Season like their early season change was reactionary to their starters not

Working and then he did start and he played pretty well and then guess what that lineup stopped working because of the way hbert was being defended they changed they had their best stretch of the season right like in general I think there I don’t know the conversations that specifically went into those lineup

Changes perhaps that was the part that he’s referring to but I think the decisions they made have at least proven to be justified and and successful I understand from his perspective and The Business of basketball perspective perhaps that being more confusing but it’s just it’s interesting to hear his

Side of all this because you know through the season is it never felt like he was getting I mean besides coming off the bench when he thinks he’s just you know he has stated that he would like to start like he did in Sacramento okay he

Never said that here but you know I there was nothing that ever seemed like the this would kind of be something he would say it’s just the business of basketball kind of makes this the feelings that make sense for Buddy he and I think that’s how we got here yeah

I thought that second quote that you just read I that one made more sense to me like I I understood it um like I I simultaneously agree that Rick Carlile and the Pacers staff change things in positive ways for the Pacers throughout the season to adjust to problems that they were seeing

In the lineup I believe that but also they did change things around quite a bit probably more often than the average you know team that’s seven games above 500 and I do think that a player in Buddy’s position or in Ben Shepard’s position or in TJ McConnell’s position or all of

These really good bench wings and guards that the Pacers have if you’re coming in and tonight you’re playing 12 minutes and tomorrow you’re playing 28 that is tough to get a rhythm so I empathize that a little bit I don’t know that it’s as much indecision as we are just we are

A in to what we’re seeing right I don’t think it was like Carly was out there like I don’t know what’s working let’s try this today I think that there were actual reasons for the changes but from a players perspective you know I his role changed pretty severely at least

Two different times and you get why that could be you know frustrating especially for a guy trying to get a good contract uh going in the off off season as a free agent they started the season with him coming off the bench they went seven and

Five uh and then they realized after the Orlando game where they just got embarrassed okay maybe we need to make some lineup changes so they start but he healed and he was amazing at Atlanta and then he starts for the next 16 games they start off awesome but in those 16

Games they went seven to nine right they had a below 500 record their their end of that was really brutal then they go to Houston they change the starting lineup immediate six game win streak right like every change they made was justified and made sense in a way that’s

It’s like I get why he would think that right but I also think the P like it maybe this is reactionary based on results of me to say but it sure seems like in the rearview miror they made you know smart decisions then he started started starting again started starting

He began starting again when injuries popped up when they went on that that road trip and then the SE yakum trade happened and they tried him I thought n hard made more sense when that happened and they went back to him eventually but I so I think a lot of his quotes

Certainly hit a certain way just because they’re very pointed but I think they are kind of married to reality I think they’re all things that make sense for Buddy Heil to say it makes the trade make a little more sense at least why he would maybe feel the way he did and why

The Pacers did what they did but uh can’t change the past I think the Pacers are going to be just fine although certainly I think they would like to have buddy healed if they could he was playing well for them at times I was highering him than every fan ever but I

Get I was I was higher on him than you know a lot of the fans in my life as well um you it frustr you know that the the game against Phoenix where Brad Beal just um crushed him crushed him down the stretch yeah but also

We had we had gotten back into the game mostly because of Buddy and his spacing and his shooting so it’s like you like you can’t ignore one side only to focus on the other yeah um so yeah you know I I I love buddy heeld um he’s a fun

Player to watch uh one of the best shooters ever um he would still fill fill a role on this on on the Pacers but you know long longterm big picture I think the Pacers have a really good opportunity to to move forward well without him unrelated to his play or the business of

Basketball or the trade I very much miss my conversations with buy yield so selfishly hope he’s doing well in Philadelphia very cool that halber got to use his house and his space to work through some of his struggles in Dallas uh read Dustin no per story about that

And the Indy star for more let’s close out with the Pacers opponent tonight John no Carl Anthony towns but uh car the towns John not a particularly good Defender which is no because the Tim rolls have the best defense in the NBA and saying that sells them short because

Their defensive rning is 108 the Celtics have the second best defense at 110.2 the difference between the Celtics and the eight eighth ranked defense is about the same difference as the Timberwolves and the Celtics they are ridiculously good on the defensive end of the floor

Like it it’s just wild and they are over 10 points per 100 possessions better on defense than the Pacers could not be a more clashing style tonight um to me it’s all about length right and we just saw this against the Spurs for the Pacers they did well when w Bama and the

Length was off the floor they could get in the pain a little bit McConnell went crazy when he was out there they were very jumper Alliant and they couldn’t make them I don’t think the Pacers want to get into that trap again but it’s hard when throughout a whole game go

Bear’s on the floor and jayen McDaniels is on the floor and N Alexander Walker’s playing a lot and Kyle Anderson’s on the floor and nazar’s on the floor even Anthony Edward is pretty rangy like they just can send guys at you it’s they’re a really tough team I think this is gonna

Be a tough one for the Pacers yeah I mean do do you have any idea do you know if they’re gonna start Nas Reed or Kyle Anderson what do you what do you what does your gut tell you they’re gonna do I would gosh I would guess K I don’t

Know they maybe it’ be Alexander Walker right and they would that that might be too small I’m not sure and then just play McDaniels at the four I don’t know yeah I think that’s gon alander Walker in their last game but that’s because Anthony Edwards was did you see this he

Didn’t start when they played the Blazers because he lost track of time like okay I something else obviously happened but that was the funny story that they gave so maybe they would do that I don’t know sure yeah no I think it’s going to be uh it’s gonna be

Interesting obviously you got the uh Tyrese and ant relationship from Team USA this past year they’ve uh apparently got pretty close they love playing with each other um you know they’re both young guys very different types of players um but I’m you know I’m excited to see that uh Tyrese had been

Struggling against some really good defensive players recently and Minnesota has some really good defensive players you know they’re going to be able to throw you know Alexander Walker Edwards uh um McDaniels all three of those guys are probably going to guard him there’s other guys that you know might might

Take a turn on him and uh what is going to be the Pacers counter you know if if I’m wondering since since cat is out is this a a bigger game for Pascal SE yakum is Miles Turner going to be able to to drag goar out of the lane enough to give

SE yakum and the Pacers perimeter players more opportunities to get to the basket I mean what do what do you think is is is it an advantage for the Pacers on that end that cat is out or do you kind of wish cat was out so that we

Could maybe exploit some of those th those matchups even more I’m torn because it will make the thing that they’re the best at even better which specifically is tough for the Pacers but he I mean he had 40 when they played in December right like 40 points is 40

Points um I it’s weird because I I looked back at that game to try to start talking about this Buddy heeld started that game obviously that’s not relevant anymore Bruce Brown started that game not relevant anymore Jordan war was in the rotation that game throw that out jeris Walker played 25 minutes that

Night like it’s like tyres didn’t even play it’s like what can I even learn from this like I know that it happened and it’s relevant but also maybe not um yeah I mean I think the the advantage you’ll get if you’re the Pacers from no cat is that they’ll be smaller at to

Four for sure which will help seaka like you said and it makes it that harder for them to crossmatch they can’t put cat on Turner they kind of have to put bear on him and we’ve seen it in Utah before that game that they had the the mini

Boxing match that Turner can do well he doesn’t always do well against rco but he can spread him out in ways that it’s pretty tough to do for other bigs so perhaps that helps them it does make seaka more of an ex factor to me certainly yeah I think it’s gonna it

Changes Minnesota’s offense a lot because they already are a little bit cramped on that end and Cat’s their best shooter so if you’re taking him out um you know ant is one of the best young players in the league he’s one of my favorite young players in the league but

Um you know if you’re able to to play a little bit tighter defensively if you’re able to force him into jump shots he might you know he might have a great game shooting but I do think this is going to give the Pacers defense that has struggled a lot of different times

This year um a good opportunity to you know to defend them better and if the offense works the way that we’ve seen it work you know you saw the ball moving much more uh the other day it was quicker you know more more blur Springs back back back in Action um if the

Pacers play with that pace offensively I think the Pacers have a good have a good opportunity to come out of here with a w h they need it every win they can get if they lose to the Spurs and beat the Timberwolves in the same week uh like I

Keep talking about their strength of schedule and like their opponents is it’s like does this even matter they just they play who they play maybe they win maybe they don’t making predictions is um the magic are currently playing the Heat play the Mavs tomorrow like there’s

Chances for them to make up ground the Sixers play the Grizzlies so that’s probably not gonna be a chance although the Sixers lost to the uh Brooklyn Nets last night we’ll see we’ll cover it all here on lock down Pacers John this was wonderful we covered more ground than I

Even imagined we would thank you very much for the time and saying less yet saying less saying yes to my late request because I am poor at planning thank you very much where can people find you things you have to say about the Indiana Pacers yeah follow me on

Twitter at dean of mortgages um 90% of my tweets are about the Pacers and then 10% are about mortgages which is what I do in my day job but yeah here 34 and a half minutes John I will let you talk about steadfast mortgage if you’d

Like no worries we don’t have to do that today him and Dave ah man that’s right flavor Dave David surl the The Legend dynamic duo baby that’s right fantastic stuff we’ll be talking Pacers wolves tomorrow I’ll come up with a third segment unless the game merits 30 minutes of conversation about just the

Game give John a follow be back tomorrow talking more Pacers till then everybody have a wonderful day

T.J. McConnell and Ben Sheppard have been very important reserves for the Indiana Pacers of late. What are they doing so well? Host Tony East is joined by Jon Washburn, former of ESPN TrueHoop’s 8 Points, 9 Seconds and The Fieldhouse, to break down those two bench players. They also discuss Buddy Hield’s comments about being traded and look ahead at the Minnesota Timberwolves.

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