NBA Draft Atlanta Hawks check-in before 2024 NCAA Tournament with Ben Pfeifer (Part 2)

NBA Draft Atlanta Hawks check-in before 2024 NCAA Tournament with Ben Pfeifer (Part 2)

On today’s show it is part two of two with myself and Ben feifer talking all things NBA draft here in mid-march and it’s coming to you right now you are locked on Hawks your daily Atlanta Hawks podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every Day Hello friends welcome to episode 1673 of the lon Hawks podcast I am your host Brad Roland coming to you on a Tuesday here in March and Today’s Show is brought to you by Folks at priz Pi the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports and the place to go

Is prize.com loock on NBA and use Pro promo code locked on NBA when you get there for a first- time deposit match up to $100 also at the top of the podcast I should tell you to make us your first listen each and every day here at loton

Hawks subscribe to the podcast anywhere you get your podcasts places like apple Spotify we’re also on YouTube on the video side and I’m joined once again by my friend Ben Fifer for actually part two of two so if you missed it part one should be available in this same podcast

Feed I recommend starting with with the beginning of the conversation um it’s sort of free flowing but all focused on the NBA draft in advance of the conference tournaments and also with the NCA tournament mostly FOC focused on college guys on this show but still big picture stuff on the draft as we’re

Getting a little bit closer each and every day to the draft so stay tuned and here we go myself and Ben in part two let’s talk about the Yukon guys real quick because yukon’s going to get a lot of attention to I think it’s probably just for first round purposes safan Castle Donovan

Kingan who are the guys um I like Newton but he’s not GNA yeah I like Newton too but um so we can talk about if you want to um so different players Clingan other sleepers I have other sleepers I like more later kingan’s the returner um from

Last year and I I found that Hawks fans really like him I think they probably envisioned him as like a nice compliment to a Kong wo long term is probably why they like him a little bit um but what do do you think because again Yukon one

Of the consisted top three teams in the country collegewise number one seed locked in already um what do you make of uh of both of those guys Stefan castle and Don clean um I like both of them I think like castle some people are really

High on I like him but I’m not like crazy high on him or anything like I have him like late lottery mid teens I’ve seen some people the same aformentioned Source I don’t want to credit had him top five today um but Castle is interesting like my my main

Hangup with him are that he’s like a 66 Wing that is not a safe shooting bet at all like volumes super low percentages are bad and he really struggles to create advantages in the half court he has a pretty solid handle but his burst isn’t great he’s not super explosive um

He’s much better in transition but he is really strong and I think there is like a path for him to be a really nice strength gra Creator I kind of see him as like a dho big at times and you like really great like pass Cutters from the elbow like

Really really nice feel as like a connective passer I like the way he plays just as a as a to to the point defense has been phenomenal this year like he was not that great of a defender in high school at least in my viewing of

Him he never Pops to me as a defender in this way but like his screen navigation is great his footwork is tight around the screen um he’s great rotating from the weak side and sliding down to provide help his like lateral quickness and burst is really good I feel really

Good about him as a Defender and overall like again I don’t know if I buy the side to take him in like the top 10 or top seven but he’s good I like it yeah I like this feel a lot which I’m glad you talked about that because that’s kind of

What I have popped with him on the shooting is the question also it’s like what is his role supposed to be like I’ve seen people that think he’s like a point guard and I I don’t know if that’s gonna be a thing that I buy into um so

Yeah that’s it’s and also that system Yukon is really well coached they have have obviously really good players too but I wonder what it’ll look like when you know it’s not I say that’s a good situation for him in a way that not everybody has a good situation

Absolutely uh which is help just like it was for Hawkins and Andre Jackson last year and and granted Hawkins looks good in the NBA Jackson his weaknesses are still the same weaknesses that he always had but I think Hawkins if anything has has looked better than I thought he was

Going to look in the NBA like he’s just doing the stuff that he was already good at basically the movement shooting all that stuff yeah he’s fine yeah he’s the same guy he kind of was supposed to be which is all and as long as you draft responsibly it’s

Like if the guy’s supposed to be what what the guy is that’s kind of what you like I think he was a little overdrafted especially in like a really strong draft class like he’s player yeah I can see it yeah King’s clingan’s for everybody knows kingan’s a true Center uh legit 71 72

Like Center uh what do you what do you think of him he’s good another guy who I have like mid mid Lottery like I don’t have a I don’t think I have a super strong take on him I definitely think his Mobility has improved since last

Year um which is notable for sure he’s much better guarding higher in the pick and roll um his his footwork is just way cleaner way more efficient generally um really really solid rim protector like not the not the most vertically athletic or strongest dude in the world but like

In terms of timing and and like reflexes and and hand placement it’s not like chat level or anything but it’s very good it’s really really good and I think he has a pretty nice floor as like a real impact Defender um like Bas basically right away um there is like

Fouling stuff and like positioning stuff he needs to improve on but like I think he’s gonna be a like I feel quite good he’s going to be at least like a good defensive Center offense is where the questions are because outside of just like dunking um he’s like an okay post

Scorer okay passer like to to Cuts like he has no standout offense skills um aside for being like a pretty solid finisher um just just by way of being enormous like yeah it helps to be enormous no I mean I don’t think the ceiling is crazy but he’s good like he’s

Just good Prospect I think we agree and I think again just for the local angle uh I think this is something I’ve I’ve said too long term uh they’re gonna the Hawks are going to want a legitimate seven footer um to pair with a Kong wo not necessarily play them together but

To have on the team with a Kong wo yeah um just have that wrinkle and also they could play together I think they like four so that’s kind of one he’s not the only guy like this in the draft but he’s kind of the guy that’s projected in the

Hawks range a lot that kind of checks that box I’m not I’m not saying you need to prioritize that but something you’re looking for um it would make it makes and also because the defense the Hawks defense is not very good as we all know so having a a defense first big that’s

That’s one way to put it yeah that is one way to put it for sure uh all right let’s reset U what what do you who’s who’s your favorite guy we haven’t talked about so far like who who’s the who’s the best guy that you like or

Somebody you want to talk about I’m trying to think there’s anyone else in March Madness just to keep on yeah I mean because you know Cody Williams is a guy that I I know you have you’ve been you’ve been controversially talking about him at times he’s on the bubble at

Colorado he they may not be in the tournament they might be in the tourn um Baylor guys are probably jaob Walter yeah they were on my list jacobe Walter Eve Missy uh probably two first round picks yeah so Mei is definitely the main guy there for me um that I’m really

Interested in he’s like just outside of my top tiers um and he honestly like there is some similarity I I don’t know if he’s a hawks pick because there are some quote unquote shades of Ona being a smaller center with crazy vertical bouns

How big how big is he how big is how big is I’ve seen him listed at at seven foot but that’s just a flat that’s kind of what I thought yeah so I saw that and I was like super long he’s super explosive vertically and he plays bigger than a

Kongu did as a prospect which I think miates a lot of the issues but he’s not a seven footer yeah I was I was wondering about that because that was not that they would cross him off but um it would be interesting if they if they want that route because they already

Have a Kong they’re they’re not similar he is I like too very has improved has had like kind of a lively esque Improvement Arc over the season but he wasn’t as bad as Lively was at the beginning um he is like the craziest mover um so good covering ground has

Crazy potential like guarding High in drop coverage with his back pedal um insanely quick leaper you probably saw like the crazy poster dunk he had it like in the first play against Kansas like yep he gets up versus contact on offense on defense like he’s not his

Like timing and stuff and like reaction speed isn’t always the best but the physical tools are phenomenal and I think the feel like like the overall defensive feel is probably the major question mark on that end but it’s good enough to the point where like Jaylen Johnson’s defensive field in college was

Trash and and we’ve seen what he’s turned into so like I tend to believe in guys with outstanding physical tools especially with Mei offensively like at least recently has been doing some like legit ball handling stuff they’ll have him like initiate actions from the perimeter like do little spin moves into

His post-ups obviously not like a shooter or anything but some pretty good flashes of like legitimately beating College Bigs off of the dribble um solid like kickout passing flashes nothing really special or anything um but I think he has legitimate like lowlevel all defense upside with maybe not as bankable an offensive role

As someone like clinging because of the size but real potential with high-end physical tools mobility and skill flashes and he’s one of my favorite upside bets he is a little bit older I think he’s going to be like 20 around the time of the draft which is

Definitely on the older side for a freshman but the kind of physical tools he has just moved me strongly combined with the skill he’s shown and I think he’s definitely the best prospect on on that team for sure I was going to say uh a lot of people have Walter ahead so not

That you not I’m telling that you don’t like Walter what what are you skeptical of there because I think he’s at least one I’ve seen mainstream wise a little seem one of that’s like a pretty big I feel like even like draft Twitter is very divisive this cycle but most draft

Twitter SE are pretty agreed on like that Walter is probably a little overrated um he5 66 shooter he has a really really sick shooting Prospect like insanely high volume sprinting off movement from range backing into shots tough pull-ups off the dribble like he almost has like a similar shooting case

To Keon last year um in terms of just like the way they get their shots off but Walter as like a perceived three and D is like not that great of a Defender yeah and his physical tools are not that great like he’s not super long he’s not super explosive laterally he’s like

Fairly strong which I which which I I like his strength and I like his physicality a lot that’s something he’s always had but like for for someone whose thing is like being a three in Z Wing because like offensively otherwise he’s very limited like there have been some flashes of basic handling and

Passing creation but he can’t like create he he could never create advantages by himself going back to high school this was always always an issue with him um I think I a little disappointed by his finishing I thought he would be a better play finisher but his free throw

Rate is great and like he could get really strong maybe but I definitely think of him as more of like a mid late 20s kind of or no sorry mid late teens kind of prospect like I wouldn’t take him in the top five or anything or like

The top 10 I think there’s way too many holes and not enough upside but he is like a very legit movement shooter and you have to value that at some point with his tools that he does have and him being a Freshman and stuff Today’s Show is brought to you by eBay

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Apply another guy that is definitely going to be in very very simple eval for me Walter very Bas which is you know sometimes that’s that’s helpful sometimes um another guy that’s uh definitely gonna be there that’s widely projected as a first- round pick is Kyle filipowski from duke what do you what do

You make of him he’s he’s uh I was not not not a one and done he he was around last year he was arguably the top guy that came back from last year I I love flip I think he’s a stud and that’s why I’m bringing it I know you did and also

Hawks fans seem to like him too which is one other reason why I’m bring my top he’s my top returner for sure I would have taken him in the in the mid teams last year if he declare it I think he’s only helped himself this year um he he

Is just really really good and I think there’s some sneaky like some very sneaky offensive star upside with a legit 611 seven-footer with his kind of not only like shooting flashes handling and Incredibly good passing but he is like so physical such a great rebounder

Um which I think a lot of these like really skilled Spacey bigs are like really skinny and can’t play on the inside um whereas flip was like primarily a physical post guy and as improved as I I think his perimeter defense this year has especially improved um he’s still not the most

Mobile guy his hips are pretty high and he can’t really change directions and that’s probably always going to be a limitation like I don’t think he’s ever going to be um like a great defender or anything but like he’s physical he’s big um he can he

Can move pretty well and he is just so physically dominant as a post scorer um he can kind of move laterally he’s a great Handler he’s a pretty good like timing Rim protection guy even though he’s not like super long or explosive vertically and like I would like to

Emphasize how great I think his passing is like it is really good skip skips out of the post instant processing short roll stuff passing off of a dribble passing in transition um reads the floor instantly all the time um I think the fact that you have a legitimate like

Possible dribble dribble pass maybe shoot Center at his size is really valuable I I have him in my top 10 at the moment pretty solidified um I think he’s really good really really good yeah we we agree I think the I with you 100% the offense Duke also another great

Watch this year yeah they are uh um it’s interesting because I feel like some of the filipowski skepticism is like almost entirely based on like what he was supposed to be defensively versus what he actually is like he’s actually been pretty like you said he’s pretty he’s been pretty good defensively good I

Don’t know I don’t IBA real concern like he at the college level he can defend the fact he knows how to play is helpful like I don’t think that he is defin I think the way that some people talk about is like he’s this giant like deficient defender in the NBA I don’t

Know if that’s going to be the case um be fine fine and that’s kind of all you need if you’re as skilled as he as an offense that’s kind of all you need to be and is he how mean six what 611 I think he legit legit 611 probably that’s

That’s he’s got real CER size the production and the pedigree like he was this is not some guy who came out of nowhere he was a five star like he he was a good Prospect like he was a good high school Prospect he was good as a

Freshman he was good again as a sophomore like he has such a he has such a track record of being a good player with like obvious translatable skills and upside like I think it’s like overthinking him to not be that high on him yeah I agree do you like jar Jared

McCain the other I have come around on him in a huge way so I’ll say yes he’s the other Duke uh for first project the guy most most is Jared McCain I don’t really think Proctor like Caleb foxer Proctor is G uh he had a lot of

Hype this summer and it’s it’s not gone I was pretty low on him even last year and I think this year he just like is kind of the same guy unfortunately like I I know some people like Caleb Foster I don’t think he’s a guy really but McCain

Is absolutely a prospect um I I kind of jokingly alluded to the fact that I think he could be better like he could be sneakily better than Reed Shepard in a similar role I don’t think it’s gonna happen because he is older and he’s not

And like is not a level of passer but McCain I think is a better shooter than Reed um once again has the the track record back to high school and is just like maybe the best pullup pure pull-up shooter in the draft quick like step backs his release is lightning quick

Like strong base great movement shooter amazing free throw shooter crazy good mid-range shooter like he he does it all and he is like legitimately like a point guard kind of in in like the playmaking sense his he I think his strength is great and he uses it well to like

Decelerate and create advantages and he’s really crafty but there are obvious burst athletic explosion limitation he’s not very long as well um but he has like pretty good Pace in the pick and roll he’s good at like snaking and putting guys in jail um like like hop stepping to his spots

Um his touch with both hands is great I think defensively like on a play to-play basis he is better than re effer at the moment it’s probably hot take but I think hey we’re here for hot takes on this podcast like I don’t necessarily think he’s a better defensive prospect

But like his awareness as an offb Defender is nice he’s pretty solid getting through screens um with his really like strong base he’s a lot better than I thought it was he was going to be I did not view him as an NBA as a real NBA Prospect or a real

One done coming into this year and I think he absolutely is like a top 20 guy now like again just another one of these like off ball combo guards shoot the [ __ ] out of the ball he’s like again different he’s obviously older and more physically developed but different from

Reed is like and Rob like he is legitimately very strong and functionally physical um I’m a fan i a he he’s already 20 you mentioned he’s he’s already 20 as a one and done potentially so that’s notable that he’s a little bit older but um yeah I B the

Shooting for shery bu and I I like him he I’m a little bit you know sizewise is he 63 is yeah I mean I think I’ve seen him listed at 65 and I don’t think he’s I don’t believe that yeah I think that he’s I think he proba he seem he seems

Small to me for the role but that’s okay like there’s always limitations um he doesn’t play small which no no I I I’m really mostly just being on site he seems not that big he he’s not 65 there is so much lying done about height all the way combine that is what always

Happens until it can’t happen anymore um looking at my list right now who have we not talked about that is a potential first round pick that’s going to be in the tournament Johnny Fury are you a Johnny Fury guy oh boy um that’s come

That’s come a long way I mean that was a guy that was like not even playing for Kansas this season like he was like out of the rotation in like October November and it was like top 20 pick Johnny Fury I’m like this probably one of my like biggest disagreements with even like

Draft Twitter like I really do not think Fury is like a great Prospect and I like barely have him in my top 50 um and again just like he is a great spot-up shooter and he is a very nice transition athlete outside of that and off ball

Movement he’s a great cutter outside of that nothing um and I mean yeah you you don’t have to kill the guy I mean it is what it is like you like him that’s fine he is a great athlete like he’s a great vertical run jump athlete his defense is

Currently bad but like he’s a college freshman whatever um but again for someone who doesn’t dribble doesn’t pass doesn’t really shoot off movement doesn’t take pull-ups doesn’t score in the inter said he’s 69ine that’s it I mean he’s 69ine he can shoot I think this is just an archetype I’m very low

On generally like these like the onedimensional three like three in quote unquote D wings like I’ve always said like you really need to do more to survive in like a star a role in the leag like you have to be able to dribble or pass or make decisions or shoot

Pull-ups or something and he’s very young and the production at the college level is undeniably impressive but I just can’t Envision any Pathways to him really being like a legit offensive player and defense requires like a lot of hoping and projection which of course is possible with his size but we see

Plenty of 69ine players with traditional R cannot defend for [ __ ] that is true is he uh do you like him more than obviously totally different player okay so very different and like age wise m is like 104 years old and you know those like like the thing with how flat this

Draft is like I have mcculler in like the mid 20s and fury and like the low 50s but like if you took mcculler like if if a team wanted to take FY in like the late 20s I’m like whatever I get it yeah so people know that don’t watch

College Kevin mcculler is a I think he’s been a five is he a five-year college player he’s been he’s an awesome college player uh at Kansas samey he’s a former Prep Pro Legend yes uh also he’s hurt right now they just actually announced today that him and

Hunter are not playing in the bigball tournament so he he is the big loss there I H obviously a great college player but like right I’m talking about Prospect you’re right 100% Prospect agree and I just mean um it seems like they might just be resting him for the actual tournament because

He’s been banged up for a couple weeks but um if he plays that’s a guy that’s going to get a lot of attention he’s he’s polarizing too I think people have he’s just been around a long time he’s older um but what do you think of Kevin MCC as a prospect CU he’s

Certainly been really good this year in college he just a really good player and has been a good player for a long time like similar to I guess like like we talk about flip obviously for longer um but like this was a guy who was like a crazy explosive

Raw athlete couldn’t shoot or dribble at all was like a crazy Team Defender at um honestly like a similar devel velopment Arc in terms of like skill to Jaylen Wilson and aaji and it’s clear that like Kansas is good at developing these athletic wings like they’re doing something right and we’re seeing these

Guys have success in the league um where mcculler I think has become a serviceable enough shooter but the main thing with me is like he is legitimately a really nice ball handler um Can can get can get to the rim really smooth driver in the pick and roll can handle

Through pressure loves his like spin moves and stuff he’s like a good passer but not amazing he’s not like a high high level like live dribble passer or anything yeah um and obviously defensively he’s phenomenal Today’s Show is brought to you by prize picks and demons and goblins are the newest most exciting

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LLC member sbic is a registered broker dealer always has been a special like off ball long rotation type Defender great on ball great length like doesn’t make a ton of mistakes there isn’t really a ton to to not like about Muller’s defense um agreed it’s it’s really really like just it’s really the

Offensive I don’t see a ton of upside like right but like I think it would be fine for a team to take him at like 17 if you like if the Bucks were picking 17 and they took molo I would love it right I think the thing with him is the

Shooting’s never really comeing around it’s gotten better but it’s never like it’s not a weapon right now necessarily and it’s good enough to draw Closeouts which I think is what matters and in the NBA like you know this is the first time he’s really ever been like the number

One option and he has been good in that role Kansas but he’s not going to do that in the NBA like he’s not going to be a unball guy I don’t think very much yeah I think it’s notable like like like he took a big free throw percentage jump

And and a three-point percentage jump while taking more threes and more difficult threes like that’s a like obviously it is one year and there is like careful that’s that’s a good it’s undeniably a good sign yeah he’s been really good this year uh I hope he plays

In the big dance he’s not going to play this week in the Big 12 so just circle that um but no matter what he’ll be on the radar for the draft um is there anybody that you have a first round grade on that we have not discussed that’s a college player in the

Tournament like there are some guys on the bubble like just okay let me look like like we we we have not talked about Cody Williams yet or Devin Carter or Ryan I’m gonna run through all yeah so I’m just GNA go down my my board to talk

About college player so the the highest I’m talk about is yeah I guess dun who probably they’re like that team is awful right Ben you’ll be shocked to know I absolutely love Ryan Dunn yeah he’s just like Charles Matthews too of course you

Do um I mean is he I think he’s the best fer in I think he’s the best fer in the country he’s like he’s he’s he’s incredible he I don’t know if he can play offense like like the very very simple Ryan Dunn pitch is like insanely special defensive tools and just the

Worst offensive player ever but I think in a class like this I’m like willing to bet on those special traits and be like it’s the philosophy of like okay like what can he do for me you know and like what he can do for you you is like

Even if he’s not going to be a playoff rotation player like or playoff starter like that guy is an unbelievable Defender like he could be like a guy who’s like like like current this year Jonathan Isaac a player who like would be making all defense first teams if he

Played enough minutes if he could play enough minutes yeah different style because he’s not as big as Isaac but yeah six I leg legitimately 68 and different I could see I could see Ryan dun in again I’m predisposed to liking him but in even in two or three years I

Could be like Ryan Dunn is the best defender in the NBA like I’m not saying it’s gonna happen but like that’s not that’s not insane to say out loud despite how catastrophic the offense is it’s worth it yeah so I I buy it clearly

I’m in the tank for a guy like that but U and to to your point earlier Virginia is not a fun watch and they might not even make the tournament they’re on the bubble right now which why we held off um horri but the other other guy that’s

Like definitely going to be a top 20 pick is Cody Williams they’re are the bubble to for Colorado I know you’re a little lower is that right on Cody Williams lower on him um but he is he’s a guy that you people will see in the

Top 10 of mock draft so what do you five and such yeah I I’ve definely come around with him a lot since preseason but I still think like I have him in like the the late teens or something um he is his touch is amazing around the

Rim he’s an incredible tough shot maker from like eight feet in Oh by we have we have to say it out loud we have to say he’s the brother of Jay contractual blocked on Twitter by his brother once for saying it so I can’t

Say it again well he is I mean it’s just true it’s just a fact they are brothers I know he was like oh you know I don’t you know like he’s he’s his own person I’m like I know but I would have had 40 Thunder fans in my in my replies being

Like Oh is it job’s brother I’m like yes yes yes it is but like he’s a good he’s a very good college player for sure the the toucher on the rim is great he has some solid like connective off ball feel um and his defense is really I I think

His defensive upside is really nice like he is super super agile really like the he’s just like a classic like lengthy long like scrawny like Mobility guy um not the most amazing rim protector or anything like not the strongest guy like has obvious Avenues to become a ridiculous Defender but my my Hang-Ups

Are like he is maybe like the worst Advantage Creator in this draft like the handle is very very far away like he’s not super he’s like good athlete to me not Elite or great or anything um and that in terms of creation and and finishing at The Rim as

Well um like the vertical explosion in traffic is not great the burst isn’t great the flexibility is inconsistent I would say um and I again like he shoots like one three like two threes a game and they’re and they’re always wide open like that that is the that’s my thing

With him is that I don’t know about the shooting at all I just don’t I don’t obviously like it’s different case from Reed like Reed is obviously a minimum like a legit shooter but Cody like I don’t care that he’s shooting 40 like he’s made 16 threes this year like that

Doesn’t M yeah that’s nothing that doesn’t matter at all uh the volume is not big enough no I like him more I like him more than I have him higher than you do but I do understand the concerns like like like I have him in a tier from like

20 to like seven so like I would be fine with the team thinking him in the late Lottery like there is obvious like physical talent and and feel like and touch there and maybe there’s a world when becomes like a crazy tough shot me

But also you and I you and I both know as much as it might have gotten you in trouble on Twitter it’s not going to hurt his stock that his brother’s awesome it’s not no it’s g no it’s gonna help it yeah it already is helping it I think um it has

Been helping it for a long time already yeah so I like him I hope they’re in the tournament because I like to see him play more I like to see him play against simp KJ Simpson and Tristan the Sila are both yeah they have some real guys as

Well list too um all right so go on your list any more first rounders so I’m just going through the teams right now um in the tournament so so um I I no no one on I’m looking I okay I’ll name some teams for you you got you got the Marquette

Guys oo yeso yes um he is he is really good I mean he’s like a guy who’s been liked by draft Twitter for quite a while now yes he is a phenomenal defensive player um amazing pick and roll defense like despite not being like the tallest or most athletic guy vertically like

He’s such a controlled and smart Rim Defender he can move a little bit on the perimeter um fantastic passer espe like your perfect like modern dribble handoff offense big like crazy good passer to Cutters can run some invert pick and roll stuff incredible mid-range like hook touch shooter like he shooting he’s

Currently shooting on I’m looking at Bart tovic now like he’s like a total non- three-point shooter um which is which is why I have him in like the mid-20s as opposed to like the lottery um but he he’s shooting 55% on Long twos this year um ridiculously good touch and

Just’s like a guy who I feel very good about being like a rotation big overall and KCK is not really a pro he’s like he’s like I believe in him less than I believed in Cashers Winston if that means anything well it’s uh I will give

You the other side kic is uh the very very awesome college player guard 23 years old I think already um yeah it’s interesting because like all of the old low upside point guards get thrown in together in these evaluations like you’ll hear you’ll probably hear Monty Morris brought up at some point right

And mty Morris was like in picked in the 50s and is still playing in the NBA that was a hell that was a heck of a pick by Denver and all that stuff like it’s just like you’re trying to figure out which guy is kind of like I am confident Ben

You will hear Tyler kic compared to Jaylen Brunson at some point in theth but like thing with like Brunson is like these these young guards these like older College guards without outstanding physical tools like Brunson always had the outlier strength stuff yeah I mean van too like it’s you know pick

Whichever but uh I do think like for every Brunson or Monte Morris you have a million more like Dimitri Jackson I was gonna say I’m guilty of this too like I tend to like these guys more than I probably should and I think that I’m learning my lesson Evans like yeah I

Like I like jwan Evans that that did not work at all me too but I think he’s like like or like Ellie aabo um oh you call right like like so guys that have theoretically really useful traits just like the bar is too high physically the

The only thing I I will say about kak is that he’s shooting better this year that’s I like it more than I did a year ago because yeah I was convinced he wasn’t a great shooter and I think might be a good shooter now and if that’s the

Case I could see him being an NBA player I still would take him the first round I like he’s someone that I like wouldn’t like I might not have him my top 60 but I don’t care if he draft him in the second round like fine yeah that makes

Sense if you really need a backup point guard draft him the second round he’s just I’m more prominent college player so if you really need if you really need a backup point guard you should just give the Wizards cash for Jared Butler but if not then you should oh by the way

While while we’re here different player but similar uh are you are you a Zack Eed draftable or not no I I didn’t think so but listen I’ve seen people have the first round I’m just saying I think it’s one of the most crazy maybe I’ll just be so like

Like when has the giant lumbering big who only scores in the post ever worked is it just gonna why is it gonna work yeah yeah and if he’s like if you think Ed is gonna be bowon how high are you drafting him okay I will say I think be

Better than bowon I do I would I would not take him in the first round I think it would be fine in the 30s or 40s like I think that there’s a way for Ed because Edie is I was compared to a lot of these guys I think Edie is better

Than a lot of these a lot of the archetypes that he gets compared to I think he’s so good at different things and he’s so big that’s the thing he’s huge yeah like the he’s legitimate 7374 phenomenal and he can move better than the guys that at that size he’s a great

Screener like I kind of don’t really buy the movement being that good I think good compared to S4 guys I’m not not not good compar you know what I mean like yeah fair enough he’s better than Taco Fall but like I’ve seen a lot of like

Like like gavone people be like oh it’s improved movement and I think like while that’s true it’s just the bar was so low for him like he is better than he was as a freshman which is like unplayably bad but now he’s just like you know he’s still getting C he’s still getting

Cooked by Tyler wall but like yeah I think the on offense he will be he will be very useful I I’m convinced of that on on defense I I just I just don’t know if he can I mean I think he’s most similar it’s like if you’re drafting Ed

I look it as like if you you’re drafting like a microwave score point guard in a very different way they’re different yeah it’s not czy Ed is giving you like bench engine stuff he needs the ball to really be I I guess rebounding but like aside from that he needs the ball to

Like be valuable he needs to have post touches um and then you need to be able to hide him on defense and like that’s that way with a lot of like bench guards even similar to like kic like I think even though I probably won’t have him in

My top 60 if you took him in the in the second round I I think that’s fine like I I think having a plan with him makes sense and uh he’s just a he’s designed in a lab to be super divisive I get it um I think the lottery stuff is nonsense

Agree on that uh also and I also just don’t believe it but no but you know you you know the famous thing it’s also true it only takes one if somebody believes it um and I also think that it fundamentally bothers me that he gets the like just tall treatment in college

Like no he he actually he actually rocks he’s an incredible college basketball player he really is like yeah and he’s gonna get bounc in like this at the first weekend again but it w be it won’t be it won’t be his fault I can tell you

That right now was wasn’t his fault last time either he was really good in that game last year uh his guards were not anyway yeah no okay are you a donon Holmes guy oh my God I love him I have him in the lottery okay how do how do

How how do we wait this long to get Don Holmes their their attorney lock let’s talk about Don Holmes they’re going to be in the tournament Dayton I love I love the Don Holmes and it’s honestly like kind of conf because he seems another guy who like I feel like draft

Twitter is pretty unanimous on liking like I haven’t seen many people at all on draft Twitter who don’t have him as like a first rounder but mainstream Outlets have him as like a late second or not at all I I think I think I think Vini vini’s got him as a first rounder

So that counts as ESPN ESPN’s really low on unnamed one has him low I see him low on Bleacher Report Sam Sam likes him a lot Sam likes um but Holmes is really like he’s he has improved so much as a perimeter player to the point where he’s like a dangerous

Ball handler like with his chest to the like he can dribble with his chest to the basket and beat centers off the dribble he’s an improved shot maker always a dominant post scorer and a really solid Defender his number his numbers are crazy I know I know it’s the

810 but his numbers are crazy but like the a10’s a good League like it really is and aside from um like I don’t know if like the the their star upside because there is like feel processing issues um he’s not like the most athletic guy in the entire world but

Kind of similar to flip but more extreme someone who started as like a pure traditional big but developed perimeter skills like is usually the reverse usually you don’t develop those kind of skills that holes it’s usually like a Kai Jones kind of situation where it’s like okay this guy can really move in

Dribble but like he’s got to figure out how to play center and and those guys often don’t work out but Holmes is okay we know this guy can set screens and rebounds and seal and defend in the pick and roll and now we know he can dribble

So I think he’s going to be like a I I feel pretty confident that if he gets opportunity he’s going to be a legit rotation player yeah no I like him a lot to um you know I think this is only one number but you know Ken Pal’s Player of

The Year standings I think he’s second or third like he’s right he’s right behind 8 like that’s how good he’s been in college just for college stuff um he’s been crazy in college he’s like so dominant I buy it I think he is a first round pick if not first round certainly

Top 35 40 um I think he’ll go there too somebody’s gonna like him I think the production there I think he’s he’ll translate in the uh the stat models like I think I bet Pelton has him pretty high by the end oh like that just just

Looking okay so you can say anyone that you want but just looking I think I have two more in the like first round go ahead fire away and then we can get to anyone else who you had um so South Carol Colin Murray Bo he okay so I looked at

Your I looked at your at your Twitter to look and see guys I circled him because I I had not seen him as high on anyone’s board except for yours so tell me oh no I’m not I’m not even that high on him like there are people who have him like

Top 10 which I think is a little crazy that sounds that sounds to me but but he is legitimately like a really interesting weird player who’s like came on really late as a freshman um like a a really thick 69 like pure four Defender but can really move super

Strong great great instincts like rotating like creating turnovers um has just like had very dominant defensive games over and over and over again this year and he’s a really nice short roll passer really nice like post post passer as well um really solid finisher as well

Just like a really nice strong post guy very much like your typical 69ine College post scorer in that way like he is a very very great score down low and he has really nice touch in the intermediate but I do think like the fact that he is one is definitely not a

Shooter at this point um which I think is an issue like like he just does not take threes at all for being a 69ine center or like I don’t he’s 69ine he might be like 67 honestly I saw him almost at 67 I pulled it and also like

He was a a real hustle PR but but he was like a late top 100 guy like in the 90s in RCI and I think like there’s like interesting weird traits that people like understandably gravitate towards um and I think like he’s worth a first- round pick for sure like just because he

Is probably going to be a really nice Defender um like has certain like positional versatility will be able to guard down and up in some lineups for sure and then in in like a I think a smart offensive coach could get a decent amount out of him um and it it does seem

Like some mainstream draft Outlets are catching up and some kind of are still sleeping but he’s definitely I think like a pretty legit at at the minimum first-rounder and I could see myself being talked into having him hire honestly and if you’ve never seen him because honestly he was

On my radar until pretty recently too he’s in South Carolina is going to be in the tournament so that’s a team to keep yeah they were like and of course there were like some people who liked him like of course like of course Mike griov was

In on him like in high school course obviously there’s no like like no surprise there but like he he is as like as much of a late Riser as they come this this point and he is legit like I don’t think it’s I don’t think it’s fakey all right there’s one guy all

Right who’s the other one the last first round I lost him while I was talking about okay I’m gonna find him in a second I lost him while I was talking about I’m looking at uh I’m gonna name some gu I’ll just name some guys uh Trey Alexander Bor shyman um Coleman Hawkins

Kad Johnson no but we love Coleman Hawkins always PJ Hall uh ohter okay well okay actually actually Devin Carter yes but they’re they’re on they’re on they’re on the bubble the other one so who is not gonna get who’s like has got zero buzz but is undeserving is Milan momchilovich at

Baylor um oh not Baylor Iowa State yeah Iowa State freshman um just because like he is a legit 69 610 guy who can dribble and is a comically good shot maker like he is a ridiculous ridiculous shot maker um like eight like at six six you know 6 eight

69 610 I don’t know exactly how tell he looks big like 45% from long mids on a ton of attempts like 8.3 threes per 100 at 36% from three great free throw shooter insanely good at The Rim um he like isn’t a great defender isn’t a

Great like dribbler passer but he has a special trait and that is the size and his shot making off movement pullup jumpers from mid-range from three um I guess if we’re talking about like quote unquote pre-draft guys he would be like the main one for me in this class I

Would I would take him in the first round he’s not going to go in the first round maybe if he has a crazy tournament but he’s also just like not super high usage on this like very good Iowa State team um so I think that’s kind of hidden

Some of his his prowess but I would absolutely draft him in the first round if I had the power to do so there you go um yeah I mean we could do this all day but um give me before I take any more of your

Time I I know you have sleepers I know you do so give me give me your favorite couple of guys who may not be first-rounders right now but uh that you like because I know you have a list first because because I do have a little bit of

Time who are your guys I I did you write that or are there any sleepers that that you’re interested because I’m always we’ve talked about most the guys like I it’s so early for me like do you like do you like AJ Mitchell do you like Dylan

Jones yes like I like the the small those are my probably those two small school guys and probably not gonna be in the tournament though that’s the thing like we talk about but they’re prob guys Dylan Jones is the main one who I would take in the top 20 probably that’s he’s

By the way he’s from weer state looks yeah one he is just like a weirdo he’s kind of he’s kind of Mason Jones is for people who remember Mason Jones but like not he’s like if Mason Jones was a worst shooter but not the worst athlete them

All time um whereas Dylan is a capable especially a great mid-range shot maker not the best three-point shooter insanely strong bursty physical driver impressive pick and roll passer basically like plays center on defense for for for Weber State like and I think his defense is all right like he’s not

The most mobile guy laterally in changing directions moving space but he’s got really great instincts gets a lot of steals can can guard screens but he’s like one of my favorite wacko wacko creator upside bets in this draft because he really can like he has incredible scoring draft he can get

Generate easy advantages with his strength and his burst handle is really good his passing is really good um and AJ Mitchell is like similarish and that he’s like a 646 fiveish lead guard but he’s not nearly as good um he has the same kind of like mid-range shot shot

Making and like pacy pick and roll game as well but also like not a great shooter um and not the most explosive guy in the world but like really really good passer smart player like big big point guard basically yeah no I like I like AJ

Mitchell um it’s early but um you know deeper guy I’m trying to look at guys who are on this list you oh this is random but because I got question about him I’ll switch to my deeper ones after this too yeah this is not a really

Sleeper but a guy who I mentioned to ask you about earlier but is not a tournament guy uh are you a kware guy uh uh I’d say yes relatively at least another sort of like clinging before people I would really like him for the Hawks I can’t lie there is I was gonna

Say there’s a segment of hawks fans they’re just like I don’t know if they’re just out on a Kongo as a center or whatever but like I get a lot of Center questions right now and he’s one of the guys that I get questions about

So are you in you like him I would like that I absolutely like that um he’s he’s polarizing for sure um yes because of the motor issues are absolutely real and concerning especially on Def defense like so many instances where there are plays he should be making and just

Doesn’t because he is a crazy vertical athlete he’s huge I do have some issues about like his hit mobility and his like higher up pick and roll coverage like besides deep drop and stuff but crazy defensive upside and then has been an undeniably dominant offensive player

Especially in SEC not sec in Big 10 play Insane touch around the rim really on a team that had no spacing at all and this yeah on like a horrible disaster IU team speaking of context like he had a tough context to operate in and still did

Pretty well so he had a tough context last year and Tra and came to another tough context and has improved undeniably improved um he like his three-point volume is really low but I do buy the shooting to a decent extent because he was a good shooter in high

School he shot the ball at Oregon and I think Mike Woodson is just like should be tried for something um and honestly former Hawks coach and the guy I enjoy but he like he’s a great mid-range shot maker which which matters for for translation he’s a great post scorer um

Not the highest field guy but there are like some passing flashes um but yeah I think there’s a chance that he’s like a very like again like Edie honestly like he could be a like legitimate impactful interior scorer while also being a great defender but there is a lot of downside

And that’s why I have khil in like the mid like late like like late Lottery mid team as opposed to like top 10ish because there is a lot of downside but there is also a high ceiling makes sense all right unleash Ben give me give me the sleepers before we get all right

I’ll start with the the deepest my absolute deepest ones I don’t even know I don’t like I feel like there’s no such like there’s really no such thing anymore just because with how parched through everything is well I I know that but also there’s like degrees of sioness

And you know I’m I’m I’m I’m a sicko and you’re like four times more sio than I am that makesense my two deepest Sleepers for sure I think are St Thomas another Northern Colorado Colorado yeah and Isaiah Crawford out of Louisiana Tech who is a little more know I think

Is a little more touted than St Thomas St Thomas like a six7 ball handling Wing really really nice off ball shooter efficient from everywhere in college really nice off ball Defender solid passer just like another like one of these like six 66 six7 pass dble shoot nominal point guard types that that

Always seem to like fall in the draft but end up being useful this is always how this goes and Crawford Crawford at Louisiana Tech I actually have as like a borderline is like almost first-rounder I think he is that good um ridiculous defensive prospect crazy like lateral

Mobility as a 65 Guy Crazy Rim protection will totally obviously plays like not the best competition because it’s Louisiana Tech but he is a really really nuts defensive player who is like an awesome mid-range score shot maker really great at getting to the rim getting to the line impressive handle to

Create shots in the mid-range which you know could beget some pull-up shooting upside in the future another guy who getting like an older guy who’s getting zero buzz but should be is like going to be an MBA player if he gets a chance like he is destined to like be a great

January Memphis Grizzly it’s just gonna happen you know that’s that’s an incredibly specific poll but I I actually I I can I can picture it now say that January Memphis Grizzly he like he’s just gonna be Vince Williams again like in a different way that’s working

Out well so yeah he is just gonna be Vince Williams um Tucker um not tuck I mean I guess actually I was trying to read the read the name of the guy below him on my board but we should talk about Tucker D because they’re going to be in

The tournament um oh yeah Drake uh he is speaking of shot making man did you see the game the the or any clips from the Indiana State game that was he was nuts I watched most of it and uh he he is he is always nuts like I don’t know I don’t

I don’t know what it means at the NBA level so freaking good but Tucker de is an absolute bucket he while I like him the most out of all I think out of all of like the like the midc shooting winges like I prefer him to shyan for

Sure I prefer him to Miles Kelly I prefer him to Pon Sanford I prefer him to Jackson Robinson I’ll just say I like pton Sanford I’m not saying I like him better I like I also haven’t watched him a ton um but he seems all right um I’m

Scarred by Joe Camp I was yeah that’s a pretty obvious comp and I get why I get why that’s but no de uh the number I mean I know it’s I know it’s Drake but that’s not a bad league and like he’s averaging 22 game and being a legitimate

NBA level pull-up shot maker like talk about a guy who actually has a Des been Bane type shot profile um over multiple years is a can really pass the ball like has athletic and defensive concerns but like legitimate possible like NBA level pullup shot maker plus the great off

Ball stuff and um yeah he should like I don’t understand the radio silence on him like we should we should at least say this um uh the reason he is at Drake is not because uh he is not capable of playing his dad is the coach uh so he he

He probably should not be a drake just to say that’s not anything there’s nothing wrong with that I’m just saying like right I’m sure some people were like writing High major talent and he’s a high major Talent that’s what that’s what I’m saying um he you in a different

Universe he would not be a drake I think that the fact that like Drake was a tournament team last year almost beat Miami lost everyone Dev decided to come back with a totally new roster and was even better and took them to this like yeah I don’t know how much it matters

But it means something you know I I like I like him too uh I can see him I can already see him at Summer League I can see him at Summer League uh hitting four threes in the first quarter and people are like looking around like who’s this

Who’s this guy uh yeah remember Hunter Tyson at Summer League I yeah Hunter Tyson I I still like it’s gonna like that yeah I’m in um the last guy I wanted to mention who is probably not a guy for this year but maybe if he gets good feedback after he test Waters oh

Sorry two more um go ahead it’s fine the the first one is xaven Lee um he’s like a Harvard combo um another crazy ball that is not on my radar that that that is an actually that’s a guy that I don’t know anything about so are you not

With I’m not I’m not I’m out I got nothing you finally stuned me at the 80 minute Mark I got nothing he’s a Princeton guy he goes to Princeton um he is like a 63 is combo incredible shot maker one of the best ball handlers in

The class I mean like he really is just like Great Value Rob like that’s that’s kind of it um he’s really physically underwhelming especially creating advantage on the dribble not a great defender but like one of the most crafty creative Handler and I automatically like Princeton players because of like

Their system teaches them how to play off ball um like I love toan last year for a similar reason um Lee is certainly not going to come out this year but he definitely has gotten some Buzz um in in draft circles but like 10 threes per 100 82% from the line great

Mid-range shooter um 2.6 sta assisted turnover ratio like insanely good decision maker great shooter can really dribble um not like totally sold on him but definitely like a guy for the future to to keep in mind and then the last guy who I like is Jonathan mogbo at San

Francisco are you aware of him I am yes in fact they’re they’re literally playing as we as we’re recording this podcast they’re about to play I’m going to turn that game on after after we’re done probably um I saw him play Live um last month against Pepperdine he is

Short he is short that is that is listed at 68 do you buy that I guess not he so he he definitely looks either the same height or shorter than Mike Sheriff joms who I think is listed at 68 or 69 um like he he’s very short but like he he

He has some I’ll say Brandon Clark Equity oh yeah now now we’re talking like I mean he’s smaller and a way worse offensive player but like Godly leaper I think he’s like aside from me or maybe in total he was like the dunks leader this year

Um he also has an absurd rebound rate that I’m looking at right now like he averaged about 10 and a half rebounds a game in 28 minutes uh yeah he’s insanely High yeah so Edy this year is the NCAA leader in dunks with 92 mogbo is second with

81 yeah he’s also six in the six in the country in defensive rebound rate which is Godly rebounder really like really great he’s almost more of like like a giant Wing I’d like to see him developed as because like he can defend the pick and roll and he can defend the rim but

He is just short um offensively he has flashed a little bit of like off trable playmaking and short roll passing um so like I don’t know exact what his NBA role is or like what where he’s going to go like where I take him but like for

Like a second round flyer he has very unique traits that I think a smart team could capitalize on um also another guy with a very strange rout I’m looking at this now like believe also I believe he also grew a ton like within the last

Couple years yeah he was he was at a community college he was at Oklahoma A&M or something and then Missouri State last year and then now San Francisco so he’s been I got to watch like like I I watch him live at pepper time which is just

Like the best place ever because like it’s like a tiny gym and you can just basically sit Courtside um like it’s also like like you Al like a fun place to be in um he he looks small but he is an imposing athlete he is freaky and

Like there really is some truth like you know you see a guy who’s like who’s an elite athlete in person and you’re like okay like that that guy can move and I think is someone who whoever team whoever drafts him is going to be like like they’re going to become like a cult

Favorite like he has like I said like maybe some like Kenneth freed Equity even as well like he’s kind of jenzy Kenneth freed honestly all right well I’m gonna tell my friends that I have found personally the K the genen Z wait that’s such a good like that that’s such good like

Like clickbait Tik Tok like I just found the jenzy yeah please please use that that uh when you blow up on Tik Tok for for that take Phil will this podcast um no thanks Ben I appreciate it we’re going to do this again if I can uh if we

Can find time we still like a lot of prospects who don’t I know there’s lots of we could go three hours We’re not gonna do that um but I mean we we have to get to SAR and R and topic and Holland and buellis and all the guys who

Are actually top 10 guys in this class uh but four of my four of my top like my legit top tier of six are not not and that’s how most people are I mean that’s not and that’s not and that’s just for everybody knows that’s not out of the

Main that’s that’s kind of the mainstream this year is like most of the top guys are not college players but because it’s March we started there uh I’ll convince Ben to come back later on uh anything to plug uh I know you’re always doing stuff so get get it out

There man share as always just like whatever I’m doing will be on my Twitter B jpf I am actually making Tik toks Brad um I am not on there so please share whatever you want I don’t know anything about Tik Tok but go ahead just because that’s that’s like like it’s it’s a

Terrible platform but it’s like where it’s just like objectively where like at this point people are there um which is you know like it I don’t think it’s as fun to me as doing YouTube which I do still occasionally do YouTube videos but like and because YouTube demonetized me

And I I’m mad at them for that I understand hi yoube um but yeah just like follow me on Twitter I guess pretty much anything I do will be broadcast on there I would recommend that check out Ben’s work and uh we’ll talk soon my friend I I do appreciate

All of this uh I have to I’m covering I’m actually traveling to cover college basketball this week so it’s going to be lots of college basketball yeah that’s that’s my life in the coming days but uh thanks for doing this man as for everybody else please subscribe to this

Podcast follow Ben on Twitter and if you are a Tik Tok person Ben’s still there apparently just talking talking basketball uh thanks person everybody we’ll see you all next time

Brad Rowland (@BTRowland, DIME on UPROXX) hosts episode No. 1673 of the Locked on Hawks podcast, and he is joined by Ben Pfeifer for Part 2 of a 2-part episode. The conversation focuses on the 2024 NBA Draft as March Madness ramps up, with focus on the college players in this year’s class through the lens of the Atlanta Hawks.

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