The Western Conference Playoff Battle Royale With Tim Legler. Plus, Jaime Jaquez Jr.

The Western Conference Playoff Battle Royale With Tim Legler. Plus, Jaime Jaquez Jr.

Welcome to the old man of the three with JJ reic and Tommy alter brought to you by 342 Productions this is episode 220 we got a special episode today Tim legler and haime hakz Jr uh Tim and I chop it up for a bit on some teams in the Western Conference always love

Having legs on uh and then Hae comes on you and I spoke with him yesterday fantastic dude fantastic player also we’ve got a draft presented by New Era very exciting stuff uh what do you think overall of just highe and his rookie year well I will say I’m not going to

Spoil anything but you guys have something in common that that I was stunned by and you immediately went from hating him when he hopped on the call to being your best friend by the time he got off but he’s had a but he’s had a uh

He’s had an amazing it’s been an amazing run I mean like we talk about this with him he’s he’s the the perfect Heat player and if they make a you know a playoff run which I think a lot of people think that they might I think

It’s he’s going to be a big reason why yeah he he does give me a little bit of [ __ ] which I always appreciate when young guys give me [ __ ] and also we we now our soulmates because uh we found some commonality and Tommy uh big news

Over here at 342 we are co-producing a new podcast with uninterrupted uh with uh Lebron James pretty very exciting pretty big co-host I would say very exciting uh this podcast is called mind the game this will be different from the old man in three I want to be very clear on that

This is a different podcast it is a basketball conversation between LeBron and I we may occasionally have a third uh person on the show but it will be basketball Centric no narratives this is an X Ando show this is a show for the fan it’s a show for casual fans it is a

Show for the Hoops nerds it’s a show that LeBron and I wanted to make together because we wanted to watch it like literally uh we want this for the game of basketball it’s the show is operating at an extremely high level like we’ve talked about this already a

Bunch the Hulk you know Jason Kylie Richie everyone here has this is something I I think if if everybody does it right if both companies do it right that will create a collaboration that has never existed in this space hopefully and I think the first episode you know showed that and

Yeah I mean the great thing about it too Tommy and I’ve said this to a couple people the first episode is a barely a surface scratch um we’ve already recorded episode two uh I’m recording episode three and four in a few days uh these are these are fun nuanced deep

Dives with some highlevel big picture stuff as well uh just really fun to chop it up with Brun you know what’s cool is like from the beginning of this show we’ve had every like fourth or fifth guest we’ve had on has talked about that encyclopedia in his brain yeah I

Remember I think tomorrow was the first one but it’s like every once in a while somebody does it and then when you see it in real time and you see him start basically diagramming this stuff in real time you’re like oh yeah like what they were talking about is actually how he is

Super fun uh again mind theame podcast you can find it on YouTube uh at mind theame pod and across any social Channel we’re putting up our breakout Clips like we do with the old man in the three and it’s all across the board every social Channel mind the game pod uh before we

Get to legs and haime I just want to do our draftking sports book segment right now uh Friday night in the NBA tonight in the NBA some big games Indiana plays Golden State the New Orleans Pelicans play the Miami Heat and look Tommy I’m well aware that March Madness is

Happening right now big uh tournament women’s college basketball men’s college basketball I feel like the NBA sometimes gets lost in the sauce a little bit over these two weeks but some major playoff implications uh across the board for the next couple weeks um Pelicans Miami I

Was at the uh game last night in Philly uh and watched the Heat lose man it felt like this team had turned the corner and they’re now sitting in eighth place they still as of this recording have a four game lead in the L column over uh the

Ninth Place team Chicago Bulls uh Indiana right now up on Miami in seventh place but they are also looking at a playin uh then in the Western Conference Pelicans sit at 5ifth man they are creeping up 15 and five over the last 20 and Golden State in

10th um overall thoughts just in general any questions you have about all these teams well I want your thoughts uh you know we haven’t really talked about it today I want your thoughts about the game last night because it was a big win for Philly obviously it’s a game they

Needed badly but on both of those teams in particular Maxi uh has been averaging 27 5.4 assists and 57% true shooting in the 17 games with no Joel he’s been awesome um are you surprised that a Philly has been able to sort of hang on

In this in this way and then also just diagnosing with Miami in particular they’re four and six in their last 10 I know everyone hasn’t been playing but like why this has been happening yeah I I don’t I would say I’m not surprised that Philly has been able to weather the

Storm I guess I’m more surprised that Indiana really hasn’t taken off and separated themselves and gotten into that five six spot which of course Orlando has Orlando’s playing as well as anyone in the league over the last 10 to 12 Days um I’m I’m also surprised that

Miami has not played well the thing with Miami look I’ve called a number of their games I’ve talked this a little bit on the broadcast um their their shot profile is not great regardless of who plays they they just they don’t take and make a ton of Threes they don’t take and

Make a ton of shots at The Rim uh they they shoot a lot of you know paint area shots that are non-restricted and they shoot a lot of midies that’s that’s their shot profile it’s so important for them that Jimmy Butler gets to the free throw line I mean that’s like the

Harbinger for for their success because of their shot profile to create efficient offense and he’s a great free throw shooter he needs to get to the line and yeah I I don’t know what the stats are today I know the last game I called they were 18- six when he shot

Nine or more free throws and they were seven and 16 when he shot eight or less like Jimmy Butler’s aggressive I know he didn’t play last night Jimmy Butler’s aggressiveness is so important for this team and and look I’ll say again and I I’ll repeat this until they get

Eliminated from the playoffs like at full strength with all they’ve been through this year SPO feels like this is built them for the playoffs the the lack of continuity has actually allowed a bunch of guys to have a bunch of different roles they all understand the roles when everybody’s healthy they’re

Still going to be tough to beat in the playoffs for Indiana it’s very simple you know halberton hasn’t been as good like he hasn’t shot well he hasn’t scored as well uh we knew they weren’t going to be great defensively they’re they’re they’re relying on him to to be

An efficient offensive player and you know since he came back the second time post All-Star break he hasn’t been very good yeah he hasn’t shot well I mean he he he’s still averaging a shitload of assists but in terms in terms of the shooting I have a question with these

With these uh three teams right now trying to avoid Boston the sense of urgency as we we we get into this a little bit with haime with the seating stuff but when you start to pay attention to this but it feels like in particular this year in this conference

Knowing like you don’t want to be the eight seat right playing or not you don’t want to be the eight seat because you don’t want them in the first round and so when do you think that that starts to really perk up not that Milwaukee’s easy and not anyone’s easy

But like you really don’t want to face Boston and so that just sort of gamesmanship in terms of like oh we actually like aren’t going to sick guys for you know 10 days the first two weeks of April we actually you know need to sort of go more balls to the wall

Well I I think if you look at the six seed right there’s two benefits to that particularly this year number one you avoid Boston uh you likely avoid Milwaukee Cleveland has been injured off and on Donovan Mitchell another injury now yeah the New York Knicks like OG all of a sudden his elbow

Has flared up Julius is not back on the court so whoever ends up getting that three seed you potentially are are facing a team Beau if they are healthy that that is out of rhythm so the six seed gives you a more favorable playoff matchet and of course the second reason

Hey guess what we’re guaranteed a playoff spot I just you know I I I didn’t play in a playin game right I I that was past me and so I can’t imagine any team wants to go into a win or go home scenario you know uh and

Obviously the seven seed you get uh you you you do get homec court advantage and then you get to play again if you lose but that situation you you want to be able to get to the playoffs have that four or five day break prepare for the

Team that you know you’re going to prepare for versus the stress of that playing week so it’s it’s massive for for all these teams for Philly for Miami for Indiana um over in the Western Conference you know every time it feels like either the Lakers or the Golden

State Warriors kind of turned the corner a little bit the West is just so loaded that they can’t they’re just not making up enough room uh Mavs of course and and the Kings uh they’re just like lurking in the Phoenix now all the way in eighth Mavs Kings Phoenix they’re L lurking in

That 678 spot that those playin games in the Western Conference are going to be so fascinating particularly if we get Kevin Durant LeBron James Steph Curry three of those guys and then you know we could also obviously have Luca we could have dearen Fox we could have sabonis I

Mean come on man they’re gonna be star studded star studded to say the least are you ratings are going to be lit for the Western Conference it’s crazy you guys on on things on Monday you guys got into the Phoenix in Dallas of it a little bit are you surprised at all uh

Minnesota’s been able to you know keep things rolling as they have without cat and they’ve been they they have a lot of talent you know yeah I’m not surprised it’s it’s it’s they’re they’re a good team they have depth they have guys who who know their roles uh Anthony Edwards

Has been phenomenal um so not surprised there um am a little surprised to be honest with you the Clippers have been eight and 10 over their last 18 felt like they were on their way to a top two or three seed they still may end up as a

Top four seed and have homec court but again Pelicans coming uh on draftking sports book uh Pelicans to make the playoffs are at minus 1200 to not make the playoffs at plus 650 over with golden state to make the playoffs uh plus 150 which is interesting to not make the playoffs atus

190 uh to participate in the play in golden states at minus 5,000 so uh betting books obviously think Golden State well on their way to participating over in the East it’s a little uh more interesting Miami at plus 100 to uh participate in the play in and Indiana

At minus 160 so a general feeling I guess that Indiana could move up into that six seed uh we’ll be monitoring this uh the rest of the week all weekend uh throughout the next few weeks as we uh head into what promises to be a fantastic finish to the regular season

This has been our draftking sports book segment the NBA season is in full swing and when I Can’t Get Enough of the action on the court I spice things up betting on draftking Sportsbook an official sports betting partner of the NBA download the draftking Sportsbook app and use code JJ new customers can

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Let’s get to our combo with Tim ller what’s good brother what’s up man I’m good you are this is a this there are so many opportunities have been created for teams I think oh that I think’s I think there are opportunities now that exist because of cat’s

Injury the way the Clippers are playing right now what’s going on with the Suns right now I I think that and then the same thing you can make the case in the Eastern Conference as well obviously Boston’s on a different plane but I think there are just opportunities for

Somebody to play the right way get hot at the right time and and like make a run and when I say run do I really think there’s more than a couple of teams that can win a championship this year probably not in my opinion but I think

In this context making a run means you know win a round long second round maybe get to the Conference Finals I just think there’s there’s space now that’s available to be grabbed that I don’t know I felt was there earlier we’re going to focus on the western conference

For the sake of this conversation but I I I want to touch briefly on two things you just said outside of Boston and Denver outside of them like at this stage I’m not going to hold you to this listeners and viewers you’re not going

To hold Tim to this but who do you no but I’m serious like who do you believe in in terms of actually being a championship team I’ll would be honest they’re the only two teams that I can really truly Envision like hoisting the trophy having a parade if you want to

Expand it Beyond them I think the next logical team that you would probably pick would be Milwaukee right I think I think it’s funny because how that’s turned out because we all thought going into the year that was that those were the two teams and then Milwaukee was a mess for

Quite a while but then you look at what happened to some of the other teams the injuries with the Knicks embiid going down right I don’t know if anybody truly believes that Cavs are ready to make that kind of leap so here we are after

All said and done in that you know that whatever two-month period where we were all doubting the Bucks you look up and it’s probably going to be Milwaukee and Boston again right so they’re the only team legitimately I could see in the Eastern Conference even even really being in that conversation although I

Don’t see them beating Boston in the Western Conference I thought it was the clippers for a while but if you watch the Clippers right now and we’re going to get into it like if you watch them right now you’re not convinced that’s what you’re watching I’m very high on

Dallas everybody knows that I’ve been talking a lot about them we talked about them on Monday and I think you know and I know they hit a little bit of a of a rough patch um they played great when they first made the Acquisitions and then they struggled a little bit playing

Really well again and I thought had a had a pretty big statement win you know with that Kyrie game winner against Denver because Denver was all in on winning that game Dallas was able to Win It Dallas could like I think the key is is avoid Denver and in the East avoid

Boston get out of their bracket and and you got a chance to be playing in that last round in your conference and I think Dallas for me right now in the Western Conference I might I like Dallas as much as anybody else um that’s not named Denver that’s a bold statement

Yeah I like that I like that I like OKC I was going to start there but I just because you said the opportunity thing I do want to give some love to the Orlando Magic and Jamal MOS and he’s done yeah you have to and and look the Heat have

Been a mess with availability and injury and continuity um I believe it’s 32 different starting lineups or something like that the Cleveland Cavaliers have been beset with injuries All Season Donovan Mitchell just another injury now and the Knicks the Knicks to me are still the wild card if completely healthy but then

Again Julius Randall not back Mitchell Robinson not back now OG and an noi’s elbow flared up W is reporting that he may be out for a little bit of time so the reason I bring all this up is because of what you just said about seating because I think seating does

Matter I think if you’re in the East specifically you don’t want that four five seed you don’t want to play Boston in the second round right got to avoid that and if you’re in the west wherever Denver ends up being seated let’s say it’s two as of right now as of this

Recording you you don’t want to be in that three seat you don’t want to be in that seven seat right so I I I totally agree with you but I do want to give some love to the Lando magic and part of it for me is the development of their

Players I think that has been the case for the last two years Paulo banero as a as a point forward really he he is like an initi of offense I wouldn’t call him a hub I wouldn’t call him a wing it’s like a true point forward yeah where he’s facilitating he’s scoring I’m

Amazed at his age and his his like experience level one year at Duke rookie last year second year this year I’m amazed at the patience he plays the game with the patience there’s never anything forced he’s he’s learned to make the right reads he’s become efficient you know

That was like a little bit of the knock on him when we were talking rookie of the year last year was like oh he’s got this you know role and he’s been an inefficient score every [ __ ] rookie is an inefficient scorer yeah you know the growth from him has been outstanding

Fron obviously you know is just he’s gotten better every single year he’s been in the league and then and then Jaylen Suggs has just been a monster and and turns out he can he can make threes too yeah and that’s so you just mentioned the the the key core guys and

You know it’s interesting thing about Orlando and and look this is I’m going to get a little technical here with numbers but they’re the only team in the league whose two best players are 610 and up that’s the only team in the league and the versatility that those

Two guys have in the 610 matters now people might say oh what about LeBron and AD well LeBron technically is listed at 69 right 68 okay I’m just telling you I’m I’m getting technical here with that because I just think it’s it’s interesting because that’s not really

The case with most of the teams that win a lot of games in this league you usually have a guard or a wing and then maybe another Wing or maybe there’s a big involved but it’s typically a combination of the two like two different positions these two guys play

Forward and they do everything for that team so their size and and vogner’s ability to create his own shot and break his guy down off the dribble I thought beginning of the year when I’d watch them and I’d say wow you know if this is kind of how you’re going to end games

That might not necessarily be a great formula for for long-term success when they were winning early I wasn’t giving them enough credit I’ll be the first to admit it I got attacked by Orlando Magic fans and and justifiably so because they haven’t gone anywhere and I’ve been

Really impressed by it sugs the same thing and I I defy you to find just about anybody in the league JJ that expends more energy with his on theball Defense and fighting over screen defense as a guard than Jaylen sucks that that dude if you want to just put a camera on

Him and just watch him on any given night I think people would be blown away by the extra effort that he is putting in to making guys kns miserable you just don’t see that you know multiple figh from a from a heavy minutes guy I agree

From a heavy minutes guy AG that’s one thing to have specialist type guy that can play 20 25 minutes when you’re playing heavy minutes um and you also have offensive responsibility it’s not like you have one thing to do he’s also they’re counting on him to also score

For them um yeah I agree with you the development of those three guys they haven’t gone anywhere they’ve been right there thoroughly mix the entire season and probably still are not given nearly enough credit they’re just one of the most unheralded good teams this late in

The season you’re ever going to see yeah um all right let’s let’s talk western conference right now so it’s interesting uh I’m doing this correctly which I certainly believe I am there are uh four teams that have both a top 10 offense and a top 10 defense a point of

Discussion on a previous podcast that we had was how good do you need to be defensively if all these offenses are so Elite Y and I think we both agreed by the end of the conversation certainly if you look at the history of uh both finals teams and and uh Champions you

Need some sort of balance right so you let’s say Minnesota right Minnesota has uh the best defense in the league I believe they are 18th if I’m not mistaken yes 18th offensively four teams Boston obviously the other three teams are in the West Oklahoma City Thunder Denver Nuggets and the New Orleans

Pelicans so we’ have talked recently about the Mavs the Suns stepen n kayai gave some love to Denver the other day I would like to focus on the Oklahoma City Thunder the New Orleans Pelicans the LA Clippers and the Kings for today all right the NBA

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Long with Helix better sleep starts now let’s start with the Thunder my my beginning question to you because I think this team is [ __ ] awesome my beginning question to you do you think youth or experience matters in the playoffs I think it will matter um to a

Certain degree I mean and they have very little experience you just got a handful of games I think in the playoffs for Shay you got I think a handful for Dort for D and I think Isaiah Joe’s got a few games under his belt and that’s pretty

Much it so here’s why I think here’s why I think it can matter if you haven’t been in those situations in the playoffs where what’s different is the weight of a certain moment or the weight of a game and what that means in the overall picture with getting out of that series

Like in the regular season you’re not going to feel that weight you know you you certainly can feel if you’re not playing well at the time you’ll feel pressure at the end of a particular game right at certain moments okay win or lose you get on the charter you get on

To the next city you go to the next game and that’s all that carried was one game that’s all that carried whatever happened in that pressure moment it’s not the case in the playoffs right these things are cumulative as the series goes and there are pivotal points within

Series that can turn them their their serious defining moments I do think it helps to have some experience navigating those kinds of situations collectively I do one thing that they have going for them they have a a style of play offensively and a lead player that I

Don’t think is going to be phased too much by anything that he’s going to see in Shay gild Alexander right and their style of play the continuity they have together um that that’s that’s that’s that’s something that they can certainly hang their hat on but look to say that

It just doesn’t matter at all to never be in that 22 situation fourth quarter of a game five you know one possession game three minutes to go to navigate that and then the weight that you’re going to feel of what that could mean in the impact of winning or losing that

Series I I do think it matters I don’t think it’s something that I would dismiss a team and say you got no shot to make that run you know just because of that but I also don’t think you can say well no it doesn’t matter whatsoever with a team this young that collectively

Has this little playoff experience you know the the thing with uh the thing with Shay is he does have a little bit of playoff experience he doesn’t have uh the playoff experience of being the guy and I said this a few weeks ago I am so fascinated and intrigued

By how he is going to play in the playoffs because I think one of the key developments to his offensive game game has been the development of the counter this [ __ ] has a counter for everything now and we talk all the time about players with no holes in their

Game I I don’t think Shay has a hole in his game right he’s hitting threes now at roughly 38% uh his off the dribble game mid-range his drives he creates free throws limited but he’s been an elite post up player when he has gotten those opportunities against really anyone not

Just mismatches so watching him in real time as the guy and him figuring out the counters and the reads that’s going to be one of the most fascinating things to me about the playoffs Clippers recently Paul George said right now we don’t have an identity which I don’t really have a

Problem with because I think within a season that happens all the time with teams you find an identity you lose an identity refine your identity and your identity can shift four or five times in a season this is who we are this is what we’re playing this is what’s working uh

The the the thing about the regular season is you’re playing all these different teams I think that’s part of the reason your identity can shift so much you’re playing the same team over and over in the playoffs when I look at the Oklahoma City Thunder they have an

Identity to what they do offensively and it starts with driving the basketball right they are number one by far in terms of drives per game not only that that they’re excellent at driving the ball it’s not just the volume of the drives they’re excellent at driving the

Ball number three in terms of field goal percentage on drives number one in terms of free throw attempts on drives number eight in points in the paint it starts with that on top of that they’re the number one team at three-point percentage dude I was looking this up

Today outside of giddy this is their rotation right Jaylen Williams 45% Dort 41% Chad 39% Shay a little over 37% Isaiah Joe 41% Cas Wallace 42% uh Aaron Wiggins 48% kenri kenri Williams is in the 30 high 30s uh Jaylen Williams the center from Arkansas is almost 37% like outside of giddy they

Have shooting and they have drives and they have spacing their driveing kick game is so [ __ ] good it’s so good so Shay against a loaded defense we’ve got answers to that that’s what it feels like to me when I see Shay gilis Alexander to me what differentiates him

From every other star scorer in the league is he operates in an area of the floor that no one else operates in all the time he controls from Edge of the lane to edge of the lane if you were to draw a line straight up the edge of the lane all the

Way to half court it’s unbelievable the extent to which he’s able to manipulate the basketball within that parameter but no matter what no matter what the defense does to him no matter where he’s shielded no matter where he’s sent no matter where the traffic comes from to

Your point about the counters because of his ability to manipulate the basketball and get back centered and then stop at any time with probably the quickest mid-range pullup in that area of the floor in the league and and this just kind of hit me over watching him

Probably over the last 10 15 games I started watching this guy and I’m like it’s really crazy if you think about the other like top 15 20 scores in the league like they’re all over the place they’ll be on the wing they’ll be in the post some back and guys down right

Sometimes they’ll get in the corner and ball screen out of the corner sh just Alexander stays in the middle of the floor like the entire time and the pressure that that puts on defenses to try to figure out a way to like scheme for him where he doesn’t have a great

Ability to to get the ball out and there’s great spacing now where guys can make a simple play and get a good shot that to me is what separates him from every other Elite offensive player in the league he controls an area of the floor that makes it really difficult

To scheme to take the ball out of his hands to Blitz him to whatever it may be because it’s you when you run someone to that area of the floor you’re so exposed for a quick easy three-point shot and that is to me the the greatness of Shay

Gil just Alexander I’ve just never seen an offensive player be that comfortable in a crowded area of the floor in the paint and you you never really get to force him into an area that he’s not comfortable that is why I think they’re so special offensively and I also think JJ they’re selective

About their threes they’re the highest three-point shooting team in the league they don’t take a ton they’re not a high yeah they’re they’re in the low to mid-30s most nights you’re talking about some of these top teams that we think have a chance to win it I mean it’s not

It’s not rare for Boston to be up in that 4550 range a lot of teams over 40 on a given night they’re going to take the ones that make sense to them because you’re not talking about a bunch of pure Shooters like the guy you named the guys

You named so why are their percentages so high because they take good shots and a lot of it has to do with the way the foundation of their offense is built this great player in the middle of the floor and then the simple reads that

Come out of it right so so two things to that number one did you ever did you ever probably didn’t because I don’t know maybe they didn’t have this drill in the 80s and 90s did you ever do the the one-on-one drill up top you get the

Ball at the top of the key and you weren’t allowed to move okay you did do we so we did that as well although I didn’t play a ton on one-onone but that was a thing that was like a drill you got the ball at the top of the key and

You could go one-on-one you could use as many dribbles as you want you just couldn’t go outside side of essentially the paint right um the point about uh the threes and Shay and this was true last year even where they I think they really started to build this identity

Around driving the basketball is that as you get into shifts which is essentially you’re committed to help it it’s not necessarily to on the ball but you’re committed to help right they move the ball and drive and then when you shift again they move the ball and drive and you shift

Again they move the ball and drive and so part of the reason I think that this is again from watching them and also just common sense part of the reason that I think they have such a high percentage from three is because of chat so now you’ve got a fivan who can shoot

Who can attack Closeouts his versatility just in that regard attack backing Closeouts and shooting the three at a respectable clip the defense has to react to that it creates an extra layer of space so the difference between a contested defender on a three from three

Feet now all of a sudden it’s five feet it’s a different game because of Chad h no I completely agree with that and the thing I love about Chad he falls in line with takes great shots and that’s the thing about Oklahoma City when I watch

Them play and this is maybe you know there’s other teams I could say it about for stretches but I think consistently with OKC nothing ever feels forced ever even the stuff that Shay gets you’re talking about a dude that’s averaging over 30 points a game that’s going to be

A high volume High usage guy that’s obviously has to come down and generate that kind of offense every night you ever watch Shay go just Alexander and kind of go man Shay’s really getting them up tonight like wow that was a tough one they don’t really do that they

Don’t take those early quick threes that a lot of teams take where it feels like a guy just made up his mind to get one up they don’t really do that and chats a big part of that man like he’s so efficient in what what he does and his

Ability to extend now out to 24 25 ft it’s a huge it’s a huge um development for their team in the spacing that they need to have look there here’s the thing with Oklahoma City and I probably have not given him enough legitimate weight all year because I’m always thinking

About can you actually picture them seeing them win it like Win It get by Denver that’s what I’m talking about both teams healthy can you see them actually getting by Denver and that’s where I always kind of run into a like no I really can’t see that and maybe I

Go to a couple other teams that it would be more likely for me if they were clicking and playing right and playing well and found a rhythm and an identity and a consistency going into that series you look at a team like the Clippers and say if they’re playing well when they

Would get to a team like Denver like I feel like they would have a better chance so maybe maybe I’m dead wrong about that um and maybe some of it is just because of the collective inexperience of winning as a group when the stakes are raised Gordon Hayward by

The way uh there’s another one uh 55.6 from three uh I want to make two points but I’m going to make them separately because I want you to to sort of respond to the first one so going back to Identity uh Mark dagnal gets asked all the time about their

Rebounding W and he had a great response the other day and I’m I’m sort of paraphrasing here here he’s like we know it’s a weakness but we’re going to manage that weakness Joe Missoula always talks about managing the game managing shots right so Joe is really into the just the math

Of playing basketball right yeah so his decision making about do I double team this guy what am I willing to live with defensively it’s based on time and score and it’s based on how the game flows was going so if his team and they do a great

Job of managing turnovers his team is man managing turnovers they’re getting up the right type of Threes they’re getting to the free throw line and they’re winning by seven well why would I why would I double because we’re managing the shots we’re managing the game and if you look at OKC right

They’re 28th in defensive rebounding 28th in offensive rebounding 28th in rebound percentage overall so they are not a good rebounding team relative to the rest of the NBA well how do they manage the game all right they don’t turn the ball over right number three in turnover percentage they lead the league in

Points off of turnovers so they’re turning teams over they are number three in opponent fast break points so they’re getting back on defense we’re willing to give up extra possessions on the offensive glass and we want to set our defense we’re not going to allow fast break points so you

Combine the the the the free throws on the drives you combine the percentage of makes on drives you combine the three-point shooting the good shots along with we’re going to turn people over we’re going to score in transition off of turnovers and we’re not going to allow that on the

Other end that mitigates just mathematically it mitigates some of the rebounding woes no completely well listen you’re going to have to counter and every team’s in that same category you’re going to have to counter whatever your weakness is you have to counter it with something you have you have to find

A way to make up for that and offet that in one way it certainly helps you is being able to score at such an efficient rate that you’re constantly back balanced defensively to not allow the early stuff yeah you might give up some second shots and they’re going to

Because of the way that they play the way that their personnel is set up like the lack of depth of bigs on that team that’s the way that they’re going to be they’re going to be subject to that and vulnerable to that but the other things

That they do prepare them to be able to withstand that where on a given night that’s not going to be their undoing it won’t be because they do so many other things well and I think that’s a very smart approach by their coaching staff something they’re going to probably have

To address going forward you got to Shore that up but they do so many other things well that that’s not going to be like their Achilles heel that that’s ultimately what they can’t survive yes correct now in a potential matchup with a given team right that creates a lot of

Second Chance points that also doesn’t turn the ball all over like again you have to play this game where you’re managing it in a certain way it potentially could come back against a certain matchup in the playoffs right um I think that there’s a certain group of people on NBA

Twitter that love Jaylen Williams and understand how good Jaylen Williams is yeah to the Casual fan and again I’ve said this a hundred times I have nothing against casual fans I want to be enter entertained too right I am a casual NFL fan okay I don’t I don’t Deep dive on

The NFL it’s fine I love when somebody say a hardcore NFL fan but I love when somebody says to me oh no that such and such linebacker or that safety like he’s [ __ ] awesome you know what I mean I’m like oh okay now it makes sense why that

Team’s so good right it’s good I’m I want to tell you something Jaylen Williams is a star and because of Chad and and the season he’s having uh as a as a rookie you know he’s his second year but the season he’s having as a rookie and some of this wemi Chet buzz

And because of Shay and truthfully because of some of this off the off the court stuff with giddy because they are okl Oklahoma City and they don’t get a ton of Ashley telis games to me and I I’m not gonna say he’s the most underrated or underappreciated

But to me he just he’s the best player that flies under the radar yeah this guy this guy does a little bit of everything really [ __ ] well you want to have a fun exercise go up and down the top 10 12 teams in the NBA and start listing

Like I guess what you would label them as a co-star I think it’s a good description of who Jaylen Williams is they clearly have yeah their top Star right and any team in the league I could say any team in the league who’s their best player a name is going to

Immediately jump out of your mouth I was thinking about this out of the 30 teams there’s only a couple where you might have to go hm think about that you’re going to say a name immediately and we’re going to say the same name right and most people to do this for living

Are going to say the same name so you’re talking about that next guy and so he’s a co-star because I agree with you first of all he is a star because how what he has done to develop his game offensively that you can run your offense through him now when Shay’s

On the bench put the ball in his hands and the way that he can now run ball screen and make great decisions and get what he wants and then he is affecting people on the other end of the floor it’s he’s not just out there as like a

Conscientious Defender like oh yeah you know he plays hard defensively no no he actually influences outcomes against really good players so he is doing it on both ends he’s gotten just better and better and better at the Polish in his game offensively to where he now he is a

Legitimate star player and I was just looking at his his splits are incredible the dude is shooting 58% at home for the season 50% from the three-point line for the season now why does that matter well they might end up with the number one

Seed so he’s going to get a lot of home games potentially right and he’s re and look by the way splits on the road aren’t bad but he’s really good when they play at home like ridiculous shooting numbers when you look at the totality of his game so I completely

Agree with you he is somebody that I think and I I don’t even know if I’d say the Casual NBA fan I think there are guys that like watch The League every night that I would consider like man they really love the NBA like they really follow it they know it that

Aren’t watching a lot of Oklahoma city games to really understand how far this guy has come and like what the pecking order is but if I were to ask you start listing these co-stars and these other teams you you’d be shocked when you start WR now names and say man no would

I take Jaylen Williams over that guy whereas like you like you would think your knee-jerk reaction would be no because it’s going to be a bigger name it’s going to be somebody that’s got more accomplishments under their belt like All-Star appearances or like whatever and your knee-jerk reaction is

Going to be no no it’s got to be that guy but when you really break down the nuts and bolts of how they’re playing right now I think you take Jayden Williams over more guys than you think that are in that second seat yeah I agree with that I agree with that and

He’s had some big clutch moments you you talk about the ability to just run offense through him like how important is that going to be in a playoff run that you have a second guy who legitimately you can run efficient offense through who can make threes who

Can get to the basket who can make shots from the mid-range who can make the right reads out of pick and rolls and also very comfortable playing off of Shay yeah like there’s no uh there’s no butting heads there right right it’s not my turn your turn it’s

Like he’s he can oscillate between roles very easily and it’s interesting I I I hadn’t really thought of this um but there I think there’s a little bit of a similarity um depending on lineups with them where you could sort of make an argument um who like who are you going

To hunt there similar to Boston because you have like you talking about Jaylen Williams defensively they they have Lou Dort yeah right who’s like yeah an all all defensive caliber Wing Defender right Shay who blocks steals for a guard like he’s up there right you have Chad

As a rim protector K Wallace as as a as a guard who’s GNA fight over screens and get deflections kendri Williams who’s a [ __ ] dog right they they have like this ability to put out Ross put out lineups where it’s like what’s the what’s the matchup we’re going to hunt

Here even even giddy is really good positionally as a Team Defender like he’s not a guy you’d want on an island with an elite level I did see a clip of him as a low man the other day super late on a Baseline Drive but it happens

Every you could yeah you could find those clips on every single guy in the league have you seen by the way have you seen this Instagram or Tik Tok I don’t even know what it is I I came across it on Twitter the the we done with the 9s

Thing have you seen thatuh oh oh my God it’s hilar it’s first of all it’s objectively it’s hilarious but it’s the same thing this this guy like basically picking and choosing these Random clips of you know 90s playoff what I watched the day you talking about like the bar

Jordan had no left hand so it’s a clip of Jordan going left where he doesn’t finish or it’s like Scotty Pippen shooting an airball right right and it’s it’s it’s you know very much picking picked the worst moments of each guy as a player right okay I airball a layup

Once by the way my rookie year I’m sure I did I don’t it’s been too long now so I don’t I I’m sure I did I remember vividly shooting the worst air ball of my life against the Miami Heat from the left wing for some reason I remember

That shot just drifting right on me was off by like two feet right and I didn’t shoot many airballs but I remember that one every now and then I’ll have like pts day it’ll it’ll pop up in my head anyways I think the Thunder are

Going to be super fun this is going to be fun this going be fun to watch oh yeah it’s going to be fun to watch be fun to break down it’s going to be fun to watch mark dagn make adjustments with within a series um and I I think they

Have enough optionality with their rotation that they can make lineup adjustments depending on who their series matchup is I can’t wait to watch Shay and Jaylen Williams operate under the pressure of that because here’s the thing what’s going to be crazy about the Western Conference it’s it’s go time

Immediately depending on who you’re going to get you’re going to get some team and in the first round right off the bat after the play in’s over you’re going to get some team that’s got some serious top tier talent that just survived the playing and now here they

Come and you got this young inexperienced team that might be a one seed maybe they’re two whatever they end up but it’s not like it used to be it felt like it used to be in that eight that 27 like you know what you might get

A match up every now and then that could have been tough but for the most part you kind of knew who’s escaping that this is going to be different this year like who that might be is that going to be a Phenix team with all kinds of

Talent who right now are kind of dead to me the way they played on Sunday I can’t possibly eviscerate them enough after what what I watched on Sunday but I’m just saying they still have that level talent in the roster maybe you get a Dallas maybe you get a Lakers coming out

Of the playin and that’s who you have to play right off the bat in the first round so it’s going to be a wild wild ride and I can’t wait to watch Shay and Jaylen Williams in particular navigate that think about this for a second as it

Stands today as it stands today we are recording this on Tuesday I’m not sure of the date uh it is 19th I believe March 19th there you go March 19th as of today currently in the play in you have Luca Kevin Durant Devin Booker LeBron James Anthony Davis and Steph Curry

Right Draymond Green Klay Thompson right right right yeah saying um yeah Booker’s been to the finals Durant won Champion two championships obviously LeBron Steph that group with the Warriors have won championship lcas has been to the Conference Finals Kyrie’s won a championship like that’s who’s as of

Today two of those teams are coming in as the seven and eight seed by the way depending how how things shake out you also could have a couple teams dropping back that have Zion Williamson CJ McCollum Brandon Ingram dearon Fox and sabonis like so if those are the teams

That somehow slip up a guy gets hurt and they not so much I think the Pelicans I think they’re they’re going to be safe but the Kings right now that’s 678 they’re separated by one game in the Lost column so it could be them but no matter what that’s what you get round

One you’re getting multiple all NBA level players we’re going to get we’re going to get the most compelling first round that any conference I think has ever seen in the NBA in its history the first round in the west this year 2015 was pretty [ __ ] good in the Western

Conference that was pretty [ __ ] good Spurs were the six seed we were the three seed the two through six all had at Le 56 wins I mean that was that was that first round that first round those first round matchup were insane the whole the whole conference was so loaded with their wins

This one’s just weird because you’re going to have teams that have been mediocre All Season that could be incredibly dangerous I know I know par shout out per let’s move on to the Pelicans because you brought him up um made the argument today on first take and I want to just have this

Conversation with you actually made the argument outside of the top four uh in the Western Conference who’s the dark horse that you think can actually win the West um and and look again this is not saying I think the Pelicans are going to win the west and

Beat the Denver Nuggets no I’m not saying that I’m saying you can make a case that they are a a monster hiding in PL sight outside the top four I would I would I would pick Dallas first yep and I’d probably take New Orleans next what

Do you like so what do you like about their team I one of the things I like them first of all I like their their depth of guys that impact the game yeah they have guys that are have very clearly clear defined roles and I feel like they fill those roles every night

Like you know what certain guys are on the floor to do and they do it so I just think the depth of guys that on a nightly basis have a legitimate impact on the game and that’s not always offensively some of that’s defensively with some of these guys I like that I

Like the way it’s laid out their depth at spot I kind of know when these guys are checking into the game I know what to expect when they’re on the floor so I like that I also like the fact that they’ve got really all three elements of the floor covered offensively where you

Have to have Elite level play right you’ve got it you’ve got a point guard and I do think C.J mccollum’s going to have to uh have an uptick in his scoring in the playoffs because I think he’s been in those situations and you’re going to be able to trust him more so

Because right now he’s kind of he’s not really doing anything crazy offensively and they’re still winning games and won 15 out of 20 games I think that’s going to have to change a little bit but you’ve got lead guard play at that level you’ve got the big long Wing that can

Get his own shot pretty much anytime he wants to an Ingram and then you’ve got this unique power player in Zion in the way that he finishes and does all his damage you know around the rim I’ll I’ll throw Trey Murphy in there too three

Point Murphy a there go he’s he’s got up to a slow start coming off injury but he’s he’s turned that around so you check boxes and they’re they got it they got it covered man there’s not really a weakness in an area of the floor for the

Pelicans so I like I like that about them as well and they got balc it doesn’t have to be one guy every night that’s got to play great offensively for them to have a chance to win and I and I like that about them because there’s

Other teams I think that that’s not the case like they’re going to have a hard time surviving that I don’t think the Pelicans will have a hard time surviving that you know it’s interesting i’ I’ve been very high on the Pelicans for the last two seasons and even at times where

All of or most of their guys were available particularly let’s say the big three are available and most of the other guys are available or all of the other guys are available um I don’t I don’t remember this level of consistency night to night um 15 to five are the

Last 20 they’re top five offense top 10 defense in the last 20 games that’s a that’s a quarter of an NBA season that they’ve been a top five offense and a top 10 top five defense for the season as I mentioned one of two one of four

Teams that have been top 10 in both offense and defense this is probably in terms of impact on winning the most engaged I’ve seen from Zion in terms of he’s going to do things offensively that work for the team the Points Eye and stuff has been awesome and truthfully he’s been engaged

Defensively more so than I can remember yeah and it so it starts with him the thing you that you said about like the whole scoring what I what I’ve always said about this team is it goes back to that optionality comment they have a little bit of everything right so they

Have they have the size with JV they have a big who in theory you can bring Off the Bench and you can go to a switching lineup in Larry Nance they have the instigator energy changer in Jose Alvarado they have the instant offense guy who’s also a big Wing In

Trey Murphy they have the defensive lockdown guy who should be first team all defense this year in herb Jones right they they ha they have the guy in Brandon Ingram when you need a bucket right go to the mid-range get him the ball at the elbow they have they have a lot of

Everything and I think that’s beneficial in the playoffs yeah I agree because you you that’s this is what I like about their team you you don’t really know necessarily where it’s coming from they got seven guys averaging between 11 and 22 points so you know it’s it’s it’s it’s nicely

Spread out the thing about Zion and this is one of the reasons I think no one really talks about the Pelicans Zion doesn’t have those two or three plays every night that he had when he first came in the league that were so unique to him because of just you know

The power and to to get off the floor the way that he did with a guy that big that carries that kind of weight and like you know those lobs he would catch above the square he doesn’t have as many of those and the reason I say that’s

Maybe why they’re not talking about as much because that was forcing the Pelicans into those highlights that everybody was seeing and watching and so you’re always like kind of paying attention to it his game has changed a lot I think in that way for the better I think for him for for long-term

Longevity in this league and staying on the court and staying healthy and he has for the most part this year um and I think it’s also theyve found a little bit of a better way to operate offens with him changing his game that’s allowed him to be more consistent so

Look the Pelicans are one of those teams that just I mean I can’t think all I talk about this stuff every day for a living on how many different platforms as do you how much are you talking about the Pelicans all season long you and I have had a couple conversations about it

I can tell you this they’re not asking too much about it you know at at the mothership they’re not asking about the Pelicans a whole lot right that’s just the truth they’re just not it doesn’t come up but yet here you look up and they’re position iing themselves to be a

Dangerous team and again it’s because the opportunities are being created right now with some of the struggles or injuries of these other teams the uh Clippers are a team that they’ve uh beaten uh recently uh I said this on a recent podcast and I I again I don’t have the

Exact numbers in front of me uh as of today but the Clippers are one of the most isoe heavy teams in the NBA the Pelicans are one of the best teams in the at defending isos so when we talk about playoff matchups that potentially and it’s looking like that’s a a likely

Scenario where we get pelicans Clippers we have one team going this way we have another team I’m not they’re not falling like this another team kind of doing this in the Clippers what have you seen what have you seen with the Clippers in terms of their play and what what are

Your like concerns with them I feel like it was a month ago that we were just like well if anybody’s going to beat the Nuggets it’s the Clippers yeah it was it was everybody was kind of feeling that way because of the because of the talent and the versatility across the board and

Because of the fact that Kawhi Leonard has been healthy all year and he’s playing every night and playing really well he hasn’t really been going off like he hasn’t really had to but right now maybe he needs to do a little bit more he’s kind of been like cruising a

Little bit um we did feel that way what I don’t it was maybe it was a month ago because they’re eight and seven in our last 15 and in the seven losses they’ve had in the last month they’ve averaged 105 points a game game to put that in perspective the Washington Wizards are

The worst team in the NBA they they average 113 points a game okay so that’s how bad the clippers have been offensively in those games and the wins they’ve had they’re not really beating like some of those like top teams like bullies on the Block they’re beating the

Mediocre and Below teams for the most part um their offense just feels stale to me that’s what it feels like when I’m watching them if you look at the numbers like kawh Leonard’s numbers are really good Paul George’s numbers and efficiency really good now James Harden isn’t

Playing as well like right now as he was earlier but they’re not counting on him to put up big scoring numbers anyway for him it’s more about the facilitating than anything so you look at it and I’ll be honest with you I dove into the numbers a little bit it’s hard to

Pinpoint exactly where it’s where it’s coming from other than they’re definitely not getting a lot of easy stuff they’re not playing with a tremendous amount of pace and some of those easy points that every other team that you feel like gets that’s like a contending team with the early quick

Space out threes are getting out and running and converting in transition off turns they’re not getting a ton of that so it is more of a halfcourt sort of grinded out beat you with tough shot making offense right now that’s the one thing I’m seeing when I watch them it’s

Not been particularly fun or entertaining and they were at one point fun and entertaining to watch it’s it’s really bogged down a lot and the question is can they can they kind of get out of that here over the last you know what three weeks to go in the

Season yeah I I’m just I’m just not willing to just give up on them though no I I I I just I I think back to last year the play that first round series before Kawai got hurt and I was like oh oh that’s one of the two or

Three best guys in basketball for a playoff series yeah right and and we we’ve seen stretches from him this season that look like vintage kawhai um the the thing with them where I feel like they have an advantage is is tyo I I really believe that he’s

One of the best coaches in the NBA now in the Western Conference there’s a lot of good coaches yeah there’s a lot of good coaches he’s one of the probably more experienced guys in terms of that next level of the playoffs right he first guy in Clippers history to get

Them to the Conference Finals took over the Cavs won an NBA championship been to the finals multiple times so we going back to the experience you know topic I think that’s an advantage for them and it’s funny I had a conversation with him about atos because they were like number

One in the league in atos and he said to me uh I think we’ve been trash in atos after timeout Place set place a After Time Out atto uh and and he’s like like a lot of coaches he’s like yeah I basically I have a 40 or 50 that I saved

For the playoffs and it’s interesting this little chess match that I think some coaches are doing right now where they’re like hey let’s let’s let’s try this this is the game we’re going to try this this is the game we’re actually going to Blitz on pick and roll why are

You blitzing on pick roll you don’t need a blitz on pick and roll let’s just try it we’re gonna we’re going to need it for the playoffs these little these little game within the game that coaches are doing right now is really fascinating to me um overall though you have

Been particularly harsh on James Harden I think overall this has been a this is if you had to sort of grade right the beginning of this to now and there’s been some highs and early on there were some some lows right what kind of grade would you give James

Harden on the Clippers I’d probably give James Harden a B+ or a minus right and and I think look listen you’re tough tough Professor man I have been hard on them but I have’t I don’t think I’ve been unfair and it’s not it’s not it’s never a personal agenda

I I I have a hard time getting out of my mind some of the spots where he really came up small and the teams he was on couldn’t survive that not the way that he plays on those teams okay Houston and Philly in particular Brooklyn was just

Tough because he was hurt a lot and it was just their that whole thing was a disaster so those other teams like and and and I’m looking at the way he’s playing now with the Clippers he doesn’t have to play the same way he’s played throughout his career and that is a

Major benefit to him I think it’s going to let allow him to thrive and pick his spots a little bit more there’s no question where the the gravy train is with that team it’s Kawhi Leonard and then it’s Paul George and then it’s James Harden and he can he can be

Selective in when he has to try to turn it on a little bit and and be more aggressive as a scorer because there’s no denying he’s a phenomenal playmaker he makes the game really easy for their bigs and for their shooters but when he has to go into that extra gear where hey

Man on these other teams he played on like I we need you tonight to be that 25 or 30o guy that you’ve been all season and give you give us an 11 or give us an eight with six turnovers like you can’t survive it because of how much he has

The ball that’s not the case here and that’s why I think he’s in a great spot he’s in the third spot I think that’s a great place for him to be particularly at this stage of his career so I give him all the credit in the world he has

Made a difference with this team um but I’ve said for the beginning JJ no matter what happened with James Harden acquiring him play well play not didn’t matter to me in terms of moving the needle for that team it comes down to is kawi Leonard healthy is he close to the

Guy that he was at his Peak and if he is the Clippers are a threat they’re a threat they’re a threat in the west are a threat to win it if that’s the case and I think we can all see that he is right now they’re not really firing on

All cylinders it’s not really because of Kawhi Leonard kawh Leonard looks great and look one of the reasons I’m not not going to give up on them and that’s that’s a good way that you put that because I certainly have not said that and I won’t say that when you look at I

I’m big on control controlling possessions controlling the game who controls the game the most in the Western Conference it’s joic first I would probably say Luca is second in controlling possession by possession you know you get past that you start looking at kawii Leonard cuz he still does that

He operates in an area of the floor that is very difficult to defend where he gets into his rhythm from there and very difficult to scheme for that because he he dominates the middle area of the floor and he still does because he’s so strong he’s always on balance he gets

Where he needs to go and so until I see some sort of decline there or he doesn’t look right physically the Clippers to me are still alive because we’re we’re all trying to figure out who is going to be the last team standing next to the Denver Nuggets speaking of controlling

The game want to give some love to domas sabonis yeah who just last night had his 50th straight double double which is a [ __ ] just an insane stat just a Moses Malone for the second longest streak since the ABA merger in 1976 97 yeah dude some nights you go to the

Boards and they just don’t bounce your way right you can go every time with the same level of commitment man on a Wednesday night and get 18 boards and then go the same way on Friday night and get eight you figured one of those would happen but he’s not only he’s not grabbing

Boards he’s he’s getting like you know 14 it’s like a pretty normal night for him you know what’s interesting too is like there because I saw this after uh they beat the Lakers and he had a fantastic game super physical it was very much like we’ll do it in the

Playoffs he was terrible in the playoffs last year can can we can we just not acknowledge that last year in the playoffs he was going against Draymond Green one of the all-time great Defenders and Kavon Looney and that Series in particular was like there were there’s always a level of

Physicality uh that Series in particular was one of the more like physical series that I saw in the first round and and it was both teams and and I said this at the time and every everybody thought I was like saying that the rests were favoring the Warriors I was saying the

The way that series was officiated benefited the Kings more it benefited the Kings more they were everybody was allowed to grab and I and you know what I I’ll I’ll take I’ll walk some of that back because I think in some ways it hurt the Kings because they

Weren’t as effective in their dribble handoff game right and and I look at like Kevin herder uh who by the way got injured yesterday but I look at Kevin herder someone like that the toll of having to chase around clay and Chase around Steph and be physical with them

And then on the other end the Warriors are grabbing and holding him as he’s trying trying to come off dribble handoffs with sabonis like I think that took its toll sabonis he’s an all-nba player Darren Fox is an all NBA player I I guess the biggest question mark and

It’s going to be there until this team sort of gets to the second round or the third round is always going to be can sabonis anchor a defense right and and they they haven’t been great defensively again this season they’re middle of the pack basically that’s the big question

Mark to me did Keegan Murray did he did he learn enough last year in that first round series can he be a little better in the playoffs can herder shoot well the one guy I’m like not worried about is Malik monk no obviously Darren Fox either Malik monk Malik monk has no

Rearview mirror no that’s what I’m saying no zero so no I’m not worried about him at all either and look he might be streaky he might have four for 15 games the next game I’m exactly right he might be streaky but it’s not going to be because he’s overthinking any that

Stuff now that the other thing to bonus I agree with the anchor and the defense component I also think look when you’re when you’re this impactful offensively possession after possession All Season you need to be close to that in a playoff series and he could run into something because he does have some

Limitations in his game offensively with his shooting range right he’s very selective when he takes three because his percentage isn’t bad he just never takes him but he’s not like going to make a mid-range shot right he’s going to beat you up physically and get where

He needs to get get to that left hand and get to the rim and punish you and I just thought the Warriors it was a master class and how they played him in that series and it had him all tied up so look if they get back to that

Situation they’re in a first round Series against somebody you can’t have a precipitous drop off in your offensive production over what you gave them in a regular season because they’re just not going to overcome that I I I think that’s a fair point and you

Know I I think about like my you know my own career and like wasn’t ever the number one guy and I wasn’t ever the number two guy um although at time I think at one point I was the second leading scorer on a team if I’m not

Mistaken at one point in my career but I wasn’t necessarily the second best player right I never was the second best player and you could make an argument I was never the third best player on any team I played on um but there were teams where my offense was part of our

Identity right and the team was relying on me so if there was a significant drop off in a playoff series because of how a team was defending me or because I shot poorly like that affected the team sure and and if you’re a star player and your

Team is that relying on you yeah you can’t have a huge drop off right it’s going to be tough to win yeah it’s going to be tough to win and and that’s what he’s going to have to answer this year when they get back in that situation with whoever they’re matched up against

They’re another team by the way hasn’t gotten much talk at all this year and you look up man and they’re they’re right there and I think it’s because of the fact that they had such a great regular season last last year three seed losing the first round of the playoffs

Now it took a 50 spot by by Steph in a game seven to do that on the road but they lost in the first round after being a three seed and so it’s almost like this year A lot of people are just like okay you’re not going to get the benefit

Of the doubt it’s nice whatever you’re doing the regular season but we’re going to need you to win around please when you get to the postseason it’s funny how narratives work say it again took a 50 ball in a game seven on the road for the Warriors to get past them erase their

Entire season that they had this great year that they had but you know the talk and and you know light the beam and all that right that’s all we were talking about and it took that to basically erase everything they did during the season to the point where no matter what

They end up with win total this year it’s G to be similar no one’s really going to pay as much attention to it unless you go get that first round series and the irony is they could be even playing a better team in the first round this year than they played in that

Warriors team yeah you know I I I’m going to agree with you on sort of this going back to the beginning because we’re rack up wrap up here but I’m going to agree with you that that like as of today like I’m I’m like Denver Boston

That feels it I don’t want to use the word inevitable it feels likely yeah it feels likely I don’t want to use the word inevitable it feels likely but we don’t know the matchups yet and in particular in the Western Conference this seating how the plan works out

Literally I’m not going to say anything can happen but a lot of different scenarios can happen and I’m just even with the I I mean this even with the Lakers and the Warriors I I’m not dis I’m not gonna be dismissive of LeBron I’m not gonna be dismissive of Steph

Curry I’m not gonna be dismissive of Draymond Green impact defensively in a playoff series I’m not gonna be dismissive of Anthony Davis like it’s I’m just not every single matchup whatever it turns out to be every single round in the Western Conference is going to be fascinating yeah I agree the only team

I’m a little bit getting dismissive of right now is the feeding Sun I’m sorry that was that was an Abomination against the game everybody heard you on Monday it was an Abomination what I watched on Sunday an Abomination I turned it off middle of the third quarter are you

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Let’s get to our conversation with Miami Heat rookie haime hakz Jr SPO may have said this publicly Hae and he I’m sure he’s maybe mentioned this to you but I had a recent game and we were asking about you in the pregame meeting and he said he you know they he make the

Finals last year and he’s coming off of that so he didn’t have a ton of time to to prep and they gave him a list of names and guys and he’s going through the scattering report watching film and he said everybody in the Heat organization just kept coming up to him

And being like hack he’s a heat guy he’s a heat guy and I’m curious for you now that you’ve lived it for a little bit what is a heat guy um man I think uh I think the one thing that comes to mind when you think

Of like a heat guy is just someone that puts winning above all um and is willing to you know always give their 100% no matter what the circumstance is um and and that means like you know you turn theall all over your running back on defense and trying to make up for that

Play um you know you you uh mess up on defense you got to get it back the next one so I think just things like that little things winning um and when part of the seat culture one of the things we talk about is preparing the regular

Season to get us prepared for the playoffs um and so really everything is just for you know the playoffs and getting prepared for that um and that’s kind of been a theme throughout this entire season when coaches come and talk to me it’s like you know everything

We’re doing now for you is trying to get you prepared for when you get into the playoffs because you know that’s the most important thing is winning and you know that’s what he culture is all about when you talk about heat guys it’s all about win it’s interesting I I had

Y’all’s game against uh was it Denver yeah Denver on Wednesday in Miami and I asked about the lack of continuity with this year’s team and I said this on the broadcast so I think this was for public consumption that SPO told me but I asked him about the lack lack of continuity

And how he you know goes about coaching that and his his approach and one of the interesting things he said was he feels like this is actually making you guys better for the playoffs because guys have had to play different minutes night to night guys have had to play different

Roles night to night guys have at times are asked to do less guys at times are asked to do more and when you think about the playoffs a series within a series series two series unless you’re Jimmy or bam really like on your team and I think that’s

True for most teams unless you’re one of the top two or three guys you are asked to do different things in a playoff series how do you sort of look at your own role on this team night to night and and do you feel that do you feel like

Night toight sometimes it does change and you’re asked to do different things oh yeah 100% % um I think that’s you know I don’t even think that’s just for myself I think that’s you know for for team wide um you know I I’m sure our team has our situations then throughout

The league I mean it’s a long season 82 games um I know for our team I don’t think we played one with the entire roster healthy so you know guys get hurt your ass will step up you know when guys come back you know you’re actually to

Take a step back down um and you know that’s just part of the game is something that you learn um or something that I’ve learned pretty quickly in the NBA is that you know any given night things can change every day things are changing and you just got to be ready to

Adjust and as long as you keep the main thing the main thing and that’s winning basketball games you know you learn you learn to live with it and try your best to produce for the team whether that be you know you’re playing a lot of minutes whether it’s just plug minutes um when

Coach asks you to do a specific thing um play a certain role um and you play as hard as you can to the best of your ability and that’s something that you learned throughout the season one of the things he loves to say it’s not an indictment it’s just you know

What’s best for the team and as a collective I think we have a great mentality as a whole um that you know we understand that you know we’re trying to benefit the what’s benefit the team and and whatever that way is um you know we try our best to accomplish that I was

Goingon to ask both to you guys this I mean you mentioned the prepping for the playoffs I’m curious what that looks like now we sit in you know mid-march you guys are clearly going to be in the playoffs but you don’t know who you’re playing so like if you approach a you

Know a two game stretch against Detroit or something like that what does that mean for you specifically then also JJ obviously just like at what point do you start that process of being like we are going to we are going to approach the these games differently because we know

You know April 20th is around the corner um I think when you talk about seating uh you know I think we are right now the seventh seed and how tight the East is right now how important these games are for trying to get a good spot um and I

Don’t think they want to try to play not they we don’t want to play in the plane again you know this year um so when you get into these games they’re so crucial and critical uh especially how tight the race is you know you got Orlando Philly Indiana all all of us are

Kind of in that same area and trying to fight for these um seedings and um you know these are important and you know trying to get one of these seeds is you know really trying to prepare us for um you know the playoffs and taking these games as such

It’s interesting um because you I I played on some good teams and as as highe uh so eloquently pointed out before we started I am ringless thank you for pointing out the fact that I never won a champion literally the first thing this guy gets on the zoom and he’s

Like oh hey JJ I heard you never won a championship I was like God damn man what a way to start a conversation that’s true that’s true uh no I was going to say you know being on good teams I I think that prep Tommy I think it starts post All-Star break

Where you can really see the light at the end of the tunnel and by the light at the end of the tunnel I mean the end of the regular season and so there’s a certain amount of uh I think seriousness that good teams come back with post All-Star break now there’s anomalies to

This of course you look at the Denver Nuggets last year they basically secured the number one seat after being Memphis in mid-march and then they rested guys their defense fell off like they didn’t play well going into the playoffs and then they went on a a great run in the playoffs I

Think health is important that’s part of the prep to me is like you come out of All-Star break you want to feel rested six weeks later you want to feel at your best as as whatever that means because it’s hard during the season to really be

Like I’m going to rest but I I was on a lot of teams where coaches towards the end of the year I was randomly looking this up on basketball reference the other day so like with with the Clippers I played three of the years I played

Over 75 games but I remember late in the season doc would be like hey you know if we secure this seed I’m going to rest you and you’re not going to travel with the team the last regular season game at Utah or whatever it may be and so health

Is important the other thing and I’m I’m curious to get your thoughts just because you’re you’re kind of in the middle of this right now with all these teams in the Eastern Conference the other thing haime for for me was always thinking about matchups like potential matchups potential poal first round

Matchups potential second round matchups you mentioned seating but a lot of times towards the end of the regular season you’re playing teams that you could then face in the playoffs whether it is first round or whether it’s hey this is a contender we could see them later on in the

Playoffs you don’t want to give that team a certain level of confidence against you so you’ve really you’re you’re you’re preparing for those games I remember in Philly my my second year we had a late game it was it was probably fourth to last fifth to last game at

Home against Milwaukee second night of a backto back and we we treated that game in a lot of ways like a playoff game now I think they ended up winning the game but that to me was like an example of we could see them in the second round we

Could see them in the in the Conference Finals let’s treat this like a playoff game are you feeling that at all Beyond just like hey we need to win every game but in terms of certain matchups this time of year oh 100% I think that’s something that SPO really makes clear to

Us um you know when we’re prepping for games um you know this is he always says this is going to feel like a playoff game um you know especially when we’re playing teams you know like Denver Boston um you know real contenders for the title and um when we go into those

Uh we treat it as such and you can tell the intensity is is as at as at a high um not only from coaches but the team as well and some of the veterans and it’s a it’s a great feeling you know when you see everyone and that competitive

Attitude really starts pouring out and you know you can see it in everyone’s faces how close to TP or how close we’re getting to that time of the year where you know everything everything matters so much um so on the prep and everything he always tells us you know this is this

Is what a playoff game is going to feel like and um you know let’s see how ready we are for it you’re uh 65 60 you’re past the 65 game point you’re at game 67 you guys have played 67 games what’s been the hardest thing about your first year in the

NBA man that’s a great question I think uh there’s been a lot of challenges although um I think those are also extremely fun um but I will say this I think the longevity of a season um can really get to you I remember in the beginning of the year there was a point

In time where I thought there was going to be no way in hell I was going to make it to 82 games so you know to make it this far and starting to see the light of the tunnel I know could do this now but I would just say the sheer longevity you

Know just game after game back to backs you know never really getting a a break and and it’s just basketball basketball basketball um I think that was like a big adjustment um coming from college you know having two games a week uh you know obviously The Season’s a lot

Shorter um but I would just say the sheer longevity um was a big uh was a big challenge in the beginning and now here I am but I think this is you know 60 you know 68 games maybe something like that um and you know I’m feeling a

Lot better more comfortable but the the sheer longevity was a big one for me did you feel like you hit a wall in January and February um I think I I’ll say this I think I was in a really good spot um before I got injured um and had to take

Some time for my groin um you know I was in a spot I was you know I remember talking to coaches I was tired but I was like you know I’m pushing through my mental is exactly where it needs to be and then I get a little break and then

Um you know talking to some of the coaches you don’t you don’t realize how much basketball you miss when you get hurt for for that a long of a time you know it may be a week but it feels like you know months um so coming back is you

Know the for the first time was a was an adjustment for sure trying to get back into everything um trying to get find a Groove again I think that’s something that you know everyone’s got to go through at some point in their career um it’s just

Trying to adjust and figure out how you come back from something like that um you know I’m 100% now I’m trying to find you know my groove again but I think uh I think it was definitely a challenge for sure did you ever get did you ever miss a game at

UCLA I think I missed one game one game yeah the thing I always found there’s two things that I found when I would miss games because of injury number one um I would feel a real sense of guilt and it was the strangest thing I would

Literally feel I like I could rip my hamstring which I did a few times and I would feel guilty about it like I’m not I’m not out there you mentioned missing the game and I certainly felt that the other thing that I felt was like sometimes it would take a game sometimes

It might take two or three games but like even if it is only let’s say two games you miss or three games you miss that’s a week to a week and a half off of basketball and it’s really hard to just jump back in and be perfectly back on

Rhythm no 100% and like you said you know feeling guilty for missing I I completely understand where you’re coming from uh especially myself missing games is not something that I’m really accustomed to um and uh so when I’m not playing it it definitely feels like you know you’re missing something you want

To get back so fast but at the same time you got the trainers telling you in your ear um you know slow it down um you know your health is the most important thing KB gave me some great advice too he’s like listen take as long as you need to

Get back healthy because the last thing you want to do is make anything worse that’s a fact there um who who taught you your footwork um I would say I would just do a lot of um I don’t know what do you call it I would just go to the park

Honestly when I was a kid and just imagine myself in big moments and I would watch Kobe Bryant his work on the low post to the block and just try to so I go watch YouTube and then I go say that I [ __ ] knew you univers I just

Go to the park and then just try to do it I mean my dad was a huge help I I had trainers later in in in my career but pretty much my base knowledge of basketball fundamentals came from watching you know my dad obviously was my coach and then watching YouTube on

Kobe um and guys like Melo Demar D rozan um and just go down to the block and try to imitate whatever they were doing I think what’s crazy is there’s a lot of guys that historically have had great footwork and been great athletes but historically there’s been a lot of guys

That have had great footwork and they aren’t the best athletes and the footwork essentially is their superpower and it’s their advantage what’s interesting about you is you’re also a crazy athlete and you have the footwork did you catch people off guard with your athleticism uh in high school college I

Mean I dude I I watched you at UCLA and I didn’t know I didn’t know and I apologize I didn’t know about your game you know what I mean the the the jumping part until I came across some videos on social media did you catch people off

Guard I mean I think so and I think part of it has to do with my junior year just because I had gotten I had hurt my ankle my junior year so I was playing on a on a hurt ankle I eventually had to get Sur

Surgery and I could barely move I was just playing through it the whole entire time um so I think during that stretch of time you know people were like ah he’s you know kind of like that part of that was because my ankle was hurt and I

Couldn’t jump off it there I wouldn’t even practice I was just playing the games um so I think it was definitely got slept on a little bit but you know from high school I mean if you go watch you know my high school highlights from

From um my time at camio you’d see guys were throwing lobs off the back record to me like every game and I would probably it was just like we were the glob Trotters it was so it was so much fun um and so I guess yeah people

Definitely slept on it but I think the footwork is also very important because as high as I jump I mean there’s guys that jump way higher in in this league do you think there’s a you think there’s a bias like you you staying four years

In college do you think that led to some of this a little bit as well as people being like okay there’s a reason why he didn’t come out um I I I don’t know honestly um maybe um I would just say this I know that staying four years is a is kind of

Like an anomaly nowadays but I think at the same time like everyone’s path is different um I know there there’s guys in the league today that have played four years in college and are having great great careers I mean Jaylen Bron for example another guy Josh Richardson

Um on my team and then I think you know there’s plenty others who Malcolm brogen I think played four years as well um I mean there been plenty of guys that have that have done it and I and you know I don’t want to say I’m the only one or

I’m starting this there’s guys who done it before I wouldn’t say it’s for everybody um you got freshman nowadays who are going number one pick and I’m all for that it’s just whatever path you feel is best for you and um you know that’s the message I try to preach I

Stayed four years another one yeah four years yeah I wasn’t a good player all this guy man throwing shots and direct shots all right what what do you think what what what do you think though staying four years gave you in terms of an advantage by the time you got here to

The NBA and playing for the Miami Heat I think the biggest thing or the biggest advantage that I gained is understanding winning and what that what that takes and what that means um and and really understanding the little things about basketball so I think you know in one

Year as a as a freshman it’s kind of hard to really take that in and and understand what that is and you know you have four years of development especially under the coach that I had where winning was everything if we ever lost a game you know it was

Like the end of the world um so learning What it Took and the work and the preparation um I think really helped me to take that next step and go into the NBA with that knowledge of you know what it takes to win and what that really means

I got I got a question on that actually because Coach K used to always talk about uh unpacking your bags and I remember the first time he referenced that he was talking about Elton brand and Elton came in as a freshman had some success there was a

Lot of Buzz about him you know that class I think William Avery left after his sophomore year Elton left after his sophomore year Cory mgti left after his freshman year this was all 99 the first time anybody had left Duke early and so

When I got there in ‘ 02 it was you know he was talking to we had a The heralded Freshman Class you talked to us about unpacking your bags and all that meant was that you’re sort of Allin to your time whatever your time is my time was

Four years your time was four years some guys their time is a year some guys it’s two years but while you’re there unpacking your bags and I think one of the issues there are many but one of the issues right now in the oneand done era

Is that I don’t think not enough guys unpack their bags and what happens there is the two things you just talk about you don’t necessarily learn the value of winning and losing and because your bags aren’t unpacked and you’re not all in because your mine’s somewhere else or you know

You were a heralded high school player McDonald’s All-American and I’m I’m I’m going to leave after this year and I know I’m going to leave after this year you’re not actually paying attention to whatever is being taught and specifically I I I I want actually specifics like what are the things

Because there’s a lot of guys that have said this like Antoine Jameson said this recently pop said this recently we’ve got all these guys that have Uber skills but the fundamentals I think pop reference maybe screening angles or pop reference footwork whatever the fundamentals have

Been lost a little bit so where do you so like specifically like for me I’ll give you an example I was a catch and shoot guy I was a catch and shoot guy in high school when I got to Duke two things happened later on in my career I

Got to play on the ball I got to run some pick and rolls and then I spent so much time not on YouTube but actual film studying Reggie Miller Ray Allen Rip Hamilton so I actually got better at playing off the ball I got better in my

Movement I got better setting up screens those were the things for me that mattered once I got to the NBA what were the things for you that mattered that you learned the fundamentals because you stayed four years I mean man I could go on for a really long time I’ll say one

That sticks out to me that my coach always said is honestly it’s a pretty easy one but listening like you know listening and focusing understanding scouting reports understand you know what coach is trying to tell you um you know not how he’s saying but what he’s

Saying um things like that and then I mean defensively um you know what what it means to you know stun in the Gap and get back out to the corner you know being helped without giving up open threes you know understanding what the low man is um you know offensively understanding spacing

Um how to get a great shot understanding the importance of just swinging the ball once or twice and how much that opens the floor I mean um you know understanding you know boxing out rebounding the importance of the game within the game you know like all win

The rebounding battle um they’re a great rebounding team and their offense relies heavily on offensive rebounds okay that’s something that we need to take away you know listening listening to that and applying it into your game is one of the biggest you know skills I think anyone can have is is really just

Listening um and applying that into the game or um you know who is their who is their main guys who is who is a shooter what hand do they like to go to you know take away those buckets and you know transition for example um you know we

Got to get the bound secure so we can set up our or we got to go back and set up our defense just things like that um I think are really crucial and over four years that constantly getting pounded into your head um you know it really sticks yeah it becomes programmed into

Your brain a little bit exactly were there were there any things like conceptually that were different when you got to the heat yeah I mean I think um you know spacing and and you know I wouldn’t necessar like to me you know college is

Plays and the NBA is a lot of actions um so I think that conceptually was a big thing obviously shorter shot clock know you got to get shots on goal um but just you know running quick actions and being unpredictable whereas in college you know you got a lot of setep plays okay

Let’s set up um you know let’s take our time let’s get the best shot possible and the NBA it’s like all right let’s get a great action you know first shot Avail first great shot available we got to take it because you know the shot

Clock’s short and a lot of times if you pass up a a good shot you’re not going to get a better one and so I think that’s a big thing transitioning from college into the NBA is just understanding how much faster the game moves um and pacing and and and how much

Easy buckets are of value um and just things like that I I I understand what you’re saying completely and and I want I want the viewer and I want the listener to understand what haime is talking about here so let’s say you wanted to run a wide pin down for Duncan

Robinson and if he didn’t have the shot he would then swing it to Terry Rosier and you would run out of the corner run into a ghost or slip screen if they switch you then roll to the basket if that’s not open we get a swing back to

Duncan he goes into Chase action those are all actions and Concepts yes in college and and people misunderstood I last week I talked with Deon Booker and and people misunderstood what I was saying about about fluff fluff is not an action that leads to a shot attempt

Fluff is just movement for movement sake so you can have misdirection that’s not fluff uh misdirection is a an entirely different thing I was talking about like the dribble handoff for 15 seconds at the top of the key to get to a pick and roll just run the [ __ ] pick and roll

You know what I mean that you’re not actually doing anything you’re not shifting the defense misdirection is a whole another thing but in in in the case of what you’re talking about let’s say a team wanted to get to exactly that action that is a set play for a lot of

College teams that okay we’re going to run this play you’re going to come off a pin down then you’re going to swing it to Terry and then haime is goingon to run out of the pick and then he’s GNA slip and then we’re gonna get bad

Because we want to get to that chase action with Duncan and Bam on the weak side right that’s the ultimate thing that’s a set play whereas in the NBA you have to understand all these Concepts on the Fly it’s a it’s more free flowing is what I’m saying and what you’re saying

Too so I I I understand just wanted to clarify exactly what you were talking about 100% what was your biggest defensive adjustment um I would just say definitely on ball defense um I think that was probably you know my biggest um red flag um just trying to stay in front

Of quick small guards um I think you know myself I think I’m really great um as a helps side Defender and being disruptive but as far as you know on ball that’s something that I’ve you know been working on this entire ire season just to try to be a really um lock down

Defender and someone you know if you need to get a stop you know I’m trying to be the guy that coach you know puts me on the best player so that’s that’s what I’m working to um you know really trying to stay in front of the ball you

Know there’s so many incredible scores in this league um and you know I want my job and one of eventually one of my best attributes is to be able to stop those guys I was talking to SPO uh last week about you as well and and something he

Said to Mark Jones was he was talking about how one of your advantages is just conceptu or not conceptually but but intrinsically your matchups night to night you can find an advantage depending on the matchup he he mentioned guys like OG right he didn’t say him specifically but guys like OG that are

Like size they can move their feet right that’s not an advantage but if you’re being guarded by a bigger player uh right you can go out to the perimeter you can use your handle you can use your footwork get by you’re being guarded by a smaller player you can go down to the

Post use your size and I thought that was really interesting that he he found that and he he sold us he’s like he I found that right away with haime he a previous conversation I had he was like he was like he really struggled the first day of training camp and then the

Second day I was like oh [ __ ] that kid’s got something did you did you did you feel like you struggled the first St at training camp maybe it wasn’t training maybe it was just preseason pickup I don’t know yeah I mean I think uh I think when you get there it’s definitely

It’s all coming at you so fast you know you’re trying to learn different things um you know you’re seeing guys and you know you’re you’re in the NBA for the first time and you just you know and in my eyes I was trying not to mess

Anything up um but I think you know eventually you get more comfortable and then I realized that you know I belonged here and this is what what I this is why they drafted me and this is what I was here to do um so I guess as as the time

Went on I just became more comfortable um and as far as you know trying to find an advantage I think it’s the most important thing is just trying to find or taking what the defense gives you um I think that’s the biggest thing and trying to slow the game down as much as

Possible to try to find advantages in any way I can there’s been a really uh fun national campaign for hotels.com not a pod sponsor um giving you a free shout out Hotel but but it’s been a fun campaign um Nicole yic and pton Watson had a commercial you and Jimmy have a

Commercial there’s a comedic element to it how did how did that commercial come about was that Jimmy just taking care of his Rook um yeah I mean they they told me about the commercial they told me that uh Jimmy was going to be in it I think

They came to both of us and thought it was going to be a great idea um it was in Los Angeles we got it done in a day um so it was kind of before training camp preseason I think was just after summer league uh when it happened um we

Got to spend the day together um learned a lot um and you know we’ve had a great relationship ever since your favorite Jimmy Story I mean I’ll would just say uh one of the things that just threw me off guard is like I think it was maybe like

The second or third game um you know we’re getting ready uh and he’s like playing Ed shearan to get himself I don’t know get him hyped up calmed down I don’t know but I just thought that was hilarious know usually in a locker room everyone’s playing like usually to get

Him hyped up but he’s playing like this sad Ed Sharon song in the locker room just blasting and it just really threw me off guard H that’s amazing Tommy I think we should get to the draft on that note let’s get to the draft before we begin

We wanted to give a shout out to New Era the official cap of the NBA and now the official headwear of old man of the three you can support your favorite team by wearing the same caps that the players do shop headwear and apparel and

Get 10% off when you go to New aap.com use code Oldman at checkout that’s 10% off your order using promo code old man some exclusions apply and visit newera cap.com and3 if you want to see Tommy and my favorites Tommy’s wearing a new era cap right now all right Tommy what

Is the draft topic so we’re drafting fictional villains fictional villains H you you start and then we snake it yeah and by snake it it means you start Tommy goes I get two Tommy goes you get two Tommy goes I get two like we’ll eventually all get to five all right uh

So I guess for my first pick in this draft I’m going with Thanos it’s a great pick yeah no no easy first round pick a little upset you took it I’m a little upset you took it smart yeah sorry about that way to start I figured if you didn’t draft that Tommy

He always bullshits the first pick so I would end up with Thanos Thanos and then another great villain and I would I would have the The Leverage he made no picks I me he’s cocky you threw me off here good all right I’m going I’m GNA go with the joker taking

Him off the board Joker from The Dark Knight Joker from The Dark Knight Joker from the dark KN ledg jok Ledger The Joker you know I had him on my list do you think you could make an argument that the Joker was actually a hero I would like to hear you make the

Argument I don’t think I personally could make that argument but you’re welcome to well I mean to a certain crowd of people he was promoting Anarchy right [ __ ] the man I don’t know if I’m allowed to cuss for new could you make that argument about any villain if you really try to

Isn’t that what makes them interesting yeah I think that’s what makes them a great villain though yeah it makes them captivating and the performance you can’t look away you want him on the screen even though he’s doing horrible things well my my first pick he’s referenced in the movie as pure evil

Right so I there some of these villains are not necessarily pure evil but you you know you know who is who is pure evil Anton shagor it’s on my list from No Country for Old Men it’s on my list great that’s a great first pick have you

Seen that yes I have seen that I have seen that’s great it’s great he uh yes there’s no there it’s an unimpeachable pure evil there’s no argument that he’s heroic in any way yeah um all right uh there’s few more I want to take with this second pick but I’m I’m going to

Just get this off the board cuz he’s going to get drafted uh I’m going to go with Darth Vader oh it’s a great one okay yeah it’s a good start Tommy obv even though I don’t have Thanos obvious all right well if we’re gonna go the obvious route um I’m taking Voldemort at

Second just to have him okay you guys are taking all my pcks man Voldemort vort is a Voldemort’s a first round pick easy that’s that’s a that’s a steal that’s it might have been a first overall pick you look at the numbers of the Harry Potter books and

Movies and shows we we’re all about numbers here Tommy We’re All About Numbers is it my draft now you got two you get you get two s two Pi okay um I’m gonna go with scar from the LI King oh good one very good one it’s a good one

All right and then uh for my second pick I’m gonna do a recent villain that I just saw in theaters fade rotha from Dune part two what’ you think I thought it was absolutely incredible and there’s a reason I’m picking him on my villains list I’m I I was obsessed with Dune

Obsessed wait have you seen the second one yet no I haven’t had time bro you haven’t had time it’s so good you’re going be obsess you’re GNA the second one one of the better movies that’s come out in like a long time I’ve seen the first dune like seven times I’m not

Saying I’m not saying that uh I like Dune as much as I like Interstellar when it comes to science fiction movies but I I’m stoked so I can’t co-sign this pick but I’m sure it’s a great pick after you watch the movie let me know what you think and honestly ha’s putting some

Numbers in the board right now I think this is this is a better performance than we were expecting all right all right third um I want to go Norman bit psycho going back to the 60s 1960 okay okay I’m not sure I’ve seen that film you have you seen it

Hae uh I don’t think psycho it’s a classic it’s a classic it’s a it’s I know the film I I know it’s a great film bored on a road trip I’d say you should watch it on a plane I’d say you should watch it in a hotel room in a boring

City it’s a he’s a he’s a quintessential villain all right I like it um man man all right my next two I’ve got one that’s comedic but I’m I’m my next two I’m going to go I’m going to go with aent agent Smith from the Matrix

Movies um I’m GNA go with agent Smith and then I’m going to go with Calvin candy from D Jango Unchained oo wow that’s a good one yeah that’s Leo’s character by the way that’s an unexpected one yeah yeah I feel pretty solid after four

Round this is a this is I mean this is a loaded bracket right now yeah that’s true I might I might I might tank myself this is the draft Calvin candy is a good one because he’s another one that’s unimpeachably evil yes there’s no there there no redeeming qualities all right

This might lose me this Ryan Cohen may knock me off for this one being in a top five but my fourth pick I’m going to go scooter McGavin happy Gore wow he is he’s a villain there’s no arguing it he is the antagonist of that movie he’s completely the villain in

That movie and to from the beginning to the end and but he’s another one you can’t look away like he’s a he’s one of the great parts of that movie is he a villain or is he a douche he’s the villain he’s happy he buys his grandma’s

House I know he’s hie he what do you think he’s definitely a villain he’s definitely a villain yeah he’s not a villain on the scale of what we’re talking about he’s do murdered anybody but right all right you got two all right I got two um I’m gonna go with Hannibal

Lector God that was was goingon to be my [ __ ] last pick Hannibal lecor and I’m going to go with my my last pick I’m going to do another Marvel character but I love them I’m gonna go with Loki okay okay I have a soft spot for

Loki so I would I would argue with that one but let’s hear the argument he isn’t or he is I mean I just have a soft spot he has he has his moments JJ like moment he likes some villains he likes some villains when they’re captivating he’s a soft spot for for

Villains all right that’s a really good draft H it’s a good draft um all right I need to close it out I guess once you get into the history of Loki the family history and understanding where his anger and betrayal comes from understand it you just he I I empathize to a degree

With Loki I don’t necessarily empathize with him and anable lecture is is some of this though creative choices about what they choose to emphasize because if you were to get into Hannibal lector’s background maybe you would emphasize with him okay all right all right my last one

Um I think this is good value in the fifth round maybe not the same caliber of villain of what we’re talking about but I’m going to go Miranda Priestly and devil weare’s product oh oh wow okay okay mix it up a little bit wow so we’ve got Joker Voldemort Norman Bates scooter

McGavin Miranda Priestley Miranda Priestley yeah okay all right um h i I really I really want to stay on theme because anytime we draft anything movie related I have to get an Interstellar reference in okay so I’m I’m very tempted after you chose Hannibal lecor I

Do want to win this draft I want to be clear Ryan Cohen judges our drafts I do want to win this draft I’m very tempted to draft time from Interstellar wow that that sayell is my favorite movie of all time are you oh my god Interstellar is my

Favorite movie of all time how do we not know this until just now this is a huge I you just became my favorite player you just fav player how many times have you seen it more times than I can count like I a lot you guys are this

Is this is you guys are like separated at Birth this is crazy we have we’ve had no other players who’ve come on the show in three and a half years of doing this who have had any who is the rapper that we had on just to talk Interstellar Lil

Yotti yeah big Interstellar gu he only talks about Interstellar he didn’t talk about anything music related oh that movie is absolutely incredible incredible um God we’ we’re so we’re so far down this I might have to choose it I don’t want to choose it though I’m not

GNA choose time I’m not going to choose time okay I I said I’m going to get one comedic one in there I’m GNA choose sack Lodge from Wedding Crashers Bradley Cooper’s character yeah great pick I mean anyone that would cheat on Rachel McAdams yep I

Mean come on now bud yeah come on now facial expressions it’s a great he’s a great great comedic villain y this is tough this is this is a loaded draft a loaded draft Ryan’s got his work I feel like you guys I went a very different

Direction you guys but you went you went big yeah yeah well when you said movie villains I was like okay like are these cons I guess you know the the protagonist antagonist so I guess yeah um H this has been great man I appreciate it Tommy appreciates it we

Appreciate it uh thank you yeah thank you for having me

We have a packed episode on this week’s ‘Old Man and The Three!’ JJ and Tommy open the show asking and answering some questions they have about possible play-in teams. Then, ESPN’s Tim Legler joins JJ to take a deep look at the Western Conference playoff picture, including if they think the OKC Thunder will be affected by their lack of playoff experience, why the New Orleans Pelicans might be a sleeping giant, if the Los Angeles Clippers can return to their top form, and what to expect from the Sacramento Kings. Then, Miami Heat standout rookie Jaime Jaquez Jr. joins share what his first NBA season has been like, his experience playing four years in college at UCLA, what he’s learned in the NBA, and much more. Jaime also sticks around for a draft of fictional movie villains. Let’s go!

0:00 Intro
3:38 Playoff implications
13:34 Tim Legler
01:14:55 Jaime Jaquez Jr.

Subscribe to The Old Man and The Three podcast w/ JJ Redick (ESPN / First Take) and Tommy Alter YouTube channel today for more NBA analysis, player interviews and highlights.