Look, I get it, this is sort of the Rorschach test of Celtics fandom. We see what we want to see when it comes to JT. Sure, his rebounding, playmaking and defense have been good to great in this postseason, but we need to face some hard truths here. He has been a dog shit offensive player in terms of his scoring in this postseason run. Here are some terrifying numbers:
- Pull-up jump shooting in the Finals: 5/28 (17.9%)
- Pull-up Threes in the finals: 4/21 (19%)
- 2pt FGs in the finals: 18/43 (41.9%)
- Shots outside of 4 feet & inside of 14 feet in the playoffs is 17/39 (28.8%)
- Has shot less than 30% from three in 10 games during these playoffs
- 29% from three in the playoffs (ranks 91st out of 102 players in the playoffs)
(Source: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2guVu5h3VxMD2UECUlHDL6?si=5d051dfe845f4535)
Look, the bottom line is this simply is not good enough from a player of his caliber. I love JT and have defended him vigorously over the years, but there really is no defending this kind of inefficiency for a first team all-nba player. I think it speaks to the level of anxiety a lot of us still have about this series, knowing that if he keeps shooting like this, we are very vulnerable (particularly with Zinger down).
I say all this not to be some sort of doomer or anything. It's really the elephant in the room that we all see and a lot of us are ignoring it, hoping it doesn't decide to take a massive shit in the middle of the room. Bottom line is Tatum needs to be better with his shooting. There's no way around it. The good news is he only needs to do it for one game. Let's hope it happens tonight.
by NotLow420
45 Comments
Defenses have been game planning against him, forcing him into trouble or triple teams. Heās made a lot of great passes out of those to open guys.
His shot making even when guarded 1:1 has been mediocre to atrocious and our margin for error becomes so much slimmer when he canāt consistently hit shots at the rim or from 3.
Both things can be true. We can celebrate his defense, playmaking, and maturity as a well rounded player while acknowledging that his shot making has not been on par for someone who we consider to be a top 4-7 player and one of the few who can be the best player on a championship team in the league.
Leave the dude alone and enjoy the chip tonight.
Heās almost the player we all wish he was. Hopefully he becomes that guy one day but in the meantime thankfully the team is built around who he is now.
Missed shots are missed shots. Slumps are slumps. These are shots JT can obviously make at an extremely high level and they just haven’t been going in for a while now. I think it all depends how you view JT. If you see him as a “scorer” then yeah you’re going to be disappointed in his performances. However I think he’s grown into the best all-around player in the league. You look at shooting splits of some of the greats and they’ve absolutely had similar percentages (not quite as bad though) in the finals — and won.
JT has been elite 9 times out of 10 at every other aspect of the game. He’s seeing the floor so well, he’s getting downhill, he’s an ELITE screener, floor spacer, stronger than most, defends 1-5, rebounds like a Center, and has cut down his turnovers for the most part.
The only gripe I have on JT is his shot selection and his finishing around the rim. Both need to seriously be looked at. He undebatable takes incredibly dumb shots which seem even dumber because of his slump. He also has not finished well and a missed layup on one end ends up with a made layup on the other. Outside of that I’m super proud of what JT has become and how he is impacting winning. As much as the efficiency numbers suck, I chalk it mostly up to those two things. (Even if he’s 0/50 JT needs to take those side steps to keep the defense on their toes. If he stops taking them he is that much easier to guard and stop from getting downhill)
PS. He’s got to be the most hated player since LeBron which is ironic because he gets a Bron-esque whistle where they dont call anything they are calling for the other team because of the strength and size JT has. He gets the worst whistle I have seen in a while but its lazy to blame the refs especially when we lost by 50.
He’s been elite everywhere else but the problem is he has no go to move to generate easy offense the way Luka, KD etc have. His go to move is essentially the side step 3 which is such a bad shot for him cause he’s also a relatively streaky shooter. Although that side step 3 was cash in 2020 lol.
The dude is still developing
He def has been on a big shooting slumpā¦
Weāre about to win the title and youāre sitting here throwing stones at Jayson Tatum, who was a top 10 player in the NBA this season. Truthfully, Iām more disappointed in this fan baseās attitude than I am in JTās performance this postseason. It seems as if this championship means absolutely nothing.
I strongly believe a Finals win will correct much of his issue, which I think is mostly confidence. A championship can solidify a players confidence.
Heās far too slow in his offensive movements and he doesnāt go up high enough in his layups.
Iāve pointed out the latter in the past, Iāve been clowned on for it. But heās 6ā8 but when he attacks the basket, he doesnāt use all that height.
Why does every main character start a post with “can we have a honest discussion”
There’s been plenty of discussion about Tatum’s shooting. What you meant was can I have my turn at making a post about it
OP is 100% right but people will waive this off as a nonissue cause weāre winning. JT needs to b3 better at shooting and with his shot selection. Heās not even playing like a top 10 player in my eyes right now and heās insistence on jacking up 3s doesnāt help anyone.
His shooting has been very poor. I believe its a mixture of bad shot selection and potentially that wrist injury from 2022. He still wears tape on his wrist. If the wrist is an actual problem, I’m hoping they address it in the offseason because we desperately need his efficiency back.
Idk about āsimply not good enoughā – itās been good enough for this team to cruise to the finals and be up 3-1, while leading the team in points (9 points ahead of Jaylen brown), rebounds (52(!!!) rebounds ahead of #2 Al horford), and assists (29 assists ahead of #2 Jrue Holiday).
The thing is that Tatum is a very streaky shooter who *can* shoot him self out of slumps but has not taken the number of shots needed to do that this postseason. Heās shooting 29% from three this postseason, but in the three games where he has double digit 3pa (all wins) heās shooting 37%.
Defenses know this and are selling out to *not* let him get those shot attempts, and heās been accepting that, making the right pass, and allowing the offense as a whole to sustainably succeed.
[Letās not forget how dogshit Kobeās FG% was in the NBA Finals](https://x.com/chino_2800/status/1802048764468752418?s=46)
If you want JT to play better offense, shoot better, then please get a true PF to cover his defensive duties and let him rotate back to his natural position at SF. Rather than expecting him to be a workhorse on defense guarding 1-5 and then bitching about his offensive efficiency. Simple as that.
Does Luka play defense? Does SGA play defense? Does Jokic play defense to the extent of JT?
Luka doesnāt even give a shit about his defense in the NBA finals. Luka would have been dead like a zombie on offense if he were asked to play like JT on both ends of the floor.
Bad conspiracy take incoming:
Tatum takes the most shots on our team and has done so for a while. When you have many games with 25+ shots, by variance youāre basically guaranteed to have good shooting performances where you explode, especially if youāre a good shooter already. He sees himself score 50+ while heās jacking up difficult step back and sidestep threes and they all fall, so he tries to recreate it. But the issue he is only exploding in a few of the games in the large sample where he shoots a lot. Heās jacking up terrible jumpers because heās had monster games, but those shots are bad shots that wonāt be falling consistently most games.
Heās been doing everything right in terms of playmaking, defense, and hustling for boards. The shots just arenāt going in. (I donāt think heās taking particularly bad shots either. You want him to threaten that stepback three over a smaller defender sometimes. You have to keep the defense guessing to be able to get to the rim). A shooting slump is not ideal during the playoffs but weāve been able to survive it with good team basketball.
Nobody thinks heās as good as Jokic/Luka/Giannis. Also nobody cares. This is the Boston Celtics. The team winning is what matters
If he turned his 4 stepback misses into 4 drives – 1 assist, 4 free throws and a layup, that’s superstardom. Thats the frustrating part, we all see it.
He drives me nuts when he doesnāt take catch and shoot opportunities, and instead drives into traffic and does a step-back off balance shot that always misses. He has gotten better this year, but it happens way too much with him.
I think the silver lining here is that bro keeps shooting regardless. He impacts the game other ways than scoring but it feels like it’s done more purposefully in the service of making the right play, not coz he’s choking under pressure.
Absolutely disgusting shooting splits from a #1 championship caliber player. The fact that I have no confidence in him when I see him shoot a jumper is sad. Whenever he aggressively drives to the basket it feels like a big win.
When he isn’t forcing up shots, he’s been fine by doing everything else. But when he’s not shooting well and compounds it by taking awful shots, I think that’s when most of us get pissed.
Heās just not a consistent shooter at all. Heās best when heās driving and limiting shots. Heās a good teammate, rebounder, distributor. He answers the press. Heās a great player on any team.
He’s been great in everything but shooting. Every night we say “But he had 6 assists 10 rebounds” etc. We are winning for now so whatever he does, it’s helping the team. When things get tough though, I need him to score and he has been shooting badly recently. Let’s hope he shoots lights off and WIN tonight. But if it means him shooting badly, scoring 18 points but winning, then I’ll take that over anything else
Career 36.6%Ā FG in theĀ Finals in 10 games now: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jayson-tatum-stats-finals-field-goal-percentage
He is a great player, future hall of famer. He’s not perfect, and he’s not an all-time Top 20 player. The sooner we all realize that and just enjoy watching him and this team, the happier we’ll be. I would rather have Tatum than not have him, that’s for fucking sure.
Agreed and its why the Celts have overbuilt the team around him, to take off the pressure. Imo the good news is he DOESNāT have to be this super efficient high volume scorer to win. We won games 1-3 with him scoring less and getting the hot hands better looks. Game 4 he dominated the ball early and we lost.
if we get back to passing, cutting, and not forcing (while playing aggressive d), we win.
Iād love to see him block out his man and get a contested rebound sometime. His only rebounds come when he times his jump perfectly.
The JT tee stays in the drawer in favor of the JB tee.
The poor shooting stats are one thing. What Iām more concerned about is he too often looks indecisive. Outside of the first half of G3 he hasnāt played with any conviction when isolating.
If he were playing confidently and just not shooting well I wouldnāt be concerned. Iād feel pretty good about him breaking out any minute. But as it stands I canāt count on him to carry us to that final W. Fortunately weāve shown we can win without him doing that.
I really only can afford to watch the celtics for the playoffs. So all I’ve seen this year of him is that his shooting is bad. I’ve noticed that he’ll have a good look at a 3 and be more or less open and not take it. I think he’s overthinking it a bit. He’s truly gifted, and needs to trust his shot. A few of the earlier games, his shooting wasn’t good but he was making passes to people for open 3’s.
The rest of his game is so good that overall i’d give him a decent grade for the playoffs. His defense and rebounding have been top notch.
I’d really like to see him have a game where he scores 50 and just blows the doors off. But TBH, their slow-motion style of buildup on offense i think precludes him being able to do that.
Tatum gotta play his ass off tn.
Not sure who it was, but I remember there was a really smart guy on this subreddit who has been pointing out for YEARS that Tatum doesn’t have a go-to move that he can rely on to put the ball in the basket. That guy kept saying how it takes more than being a solid downhill threat and a streaky high-volume 3-point shooter to be a reliable scorer in the playoffs. You need a midrange game. You need at least a couple go-to moves in the midrange that you can rely on to create space for an open jumper.
Tatum doesn’t have that. He can try a pull-up 15-footerĀ and maybe it’ll go in every once in a while, but at this point he hasn’t gotten enough reps with a specific move to let muscle memory take over.
Heās facing a ton of contact that isnāt called
How much can it be his wrist?? For 2 years he doesn’t stop adjusting to it and for 2 years he shoots atrociously in the playoffs.
I do believe that if we win he will get surgery
I do agree that Tatum should focus on a better offensive strategy as, statistically, the opinion makes sense. However, such belongs in the offseason (although I think he doing the Olympics). However, beyond this point, I do not think it is as horrifying as you’re suggesting relative to their current winning strategy.
This is a team sport. The Celtics are here in the finals because of their depth and versatility, as well as their bench.
I do wish Tatum would score better, but when he is nailing 3 out of 4 categories, I think the scrutiny is because of how many people overly centralize their opinions around points scored like old school baseball analysts did with batting averages.
If it was *only* Tatum and Brown, then sure. We need them points. But his team I’d what allows him to focus on his role with rebounds, assists, etc.
Since this team had not been relying on his points *right now*, we need to stop being cavemen thinking “Oh, we lost because Tatum didn’t score.” That logic is more catered to Luka than Tatum, since it’s what Luka relies on.
The Celtics *team* has to do well tonight. Tatum needs to keep focusing on what is working.
I’ve noticed that he likes to get the ball outside the perimeter and stare his defender for a few seconds. That slows the game and puts an unnecessary focus on him. Whenever he receives the ball inside the perimeter he does very well. But outside, he holds the ball, swings left and right a few times and bricks the 3.
My fix would be to MOVE within a half second of receiving the ball, if he’s outside, which pressures the defender into fouling, or initiates a double team that frees other shooters. Or just be inside where his movement is so good.
Also, i have never coached ball and never played anywhere near his level. So it’s likely i am talking nonsense. It is also very less likely that I have noticed something Mazulla and his guys havent noticed already.
Tatum being awful in high pressure moments has been the elephant in the room for most of the season. Assuming we win this series itās going to be discussed all off-season long by talking heads so youāll get your honest discussion eventually I promise
Tatum is my favorite player, but also the player that worries me the most on offense when he has the ball because sometimes he makes poor decisions and ends up taking shitty shots. Sometimes I wish he had more of a dog mentality like his idol Kobe and had confidence. I also wish he was calm like Jrue, who I always trust with the ball to do the right thing.
I donāt think anybody has ever tried to suggest heās shot well this playoffs. He hasnāt. Heās still been an effective offensive player.
In the past when he wasnāt shooting well, he had very low impact. This year heās had a very positive offensive impact, despite not shooting well, which is what you want.
Obviously we all want him to shoot better, I donāt think thatās remotely a debate
This has been an all-time dog shit performance for a superstar of his caliber – but only when it comes to scoring. Thankfully heās found other ways to contribute, especially when heās drawing double and triple teams.
Honestly, he only needs to make like two more shots a game. If he can hit one more contested layup or one more side step 3 down the stretch, heās done all he really needs to to help them win.
Thankfully JB has picked up the slack and been clutch.
Hmmm I thought this was going to be a JB for MVP post not just a letās call out our boy post. Whatās the point of discussing this on game day if not for the purpose of MVP? Just to tell everyone they should feel as shook as you do? Because I do not. I have unwavering faith in the boys. Itās not Jayson Tatum basketball. Itās a TEAM. It was never about whoās the better star, itās about working together to balance each other out and lift each other up. Bleed green baby. Keep your doubts to yourself.
JT has a game tonight and all of this is forgotten.
Its like people don’t watch the games.
Tatum is triple and quad teamed when he gets the ball, the whole team shifts.
He sees a completely different Defense then JB or anyone else on the team.
Honestly, after watching the games. There is times, he could get a good look but doesn’t get the pass which usually doesn’t happen to star players on other teams