Atlanta Hawks: 2024 NBA Draft, No. 1 pick, Donovan Clingan, Cody Williams, Stephon Castle (Part 2)

Atlanta Hawks: 2024 NBA Draft, No. 1 pick, Donovan Clingan, Cody Williams, Stephon Castle (Part 2)

on today’s show it is part two of two with myself and Ben feifer talking all things NBA draft number one overall pick his favorite players and more right now you are locked on Hawks your daily Atlanta Hawks podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day Hello friends welcome to episode 1745 of on Hawks podcast I am your host Brad Roland coming to you on a Thursday here in late June and I’ll stop right here and just tell you this is part two of two with myself and Ben Fifer so if you missed part one I recommend starting there it should be available in this same podcast feed and it’s usually better to listen to the to the show in chronological order so part one is available for you in your favorite podcast player Apple Spotify YouTube Etc but that’s kind of all I have to say on the top of the podcast other than the fact that today’s podcast is brought to by the folks at the game time app download the game time app right now create an account and use promo code L on NBA for $20 off your first purchase terms apply and also please please please go ahead and subscribe make us your first listen on this podcast search L on Hawks anywhere you might find podcasts Apple Spotify YouTube Etc all right with that out of the way here we go with myself and Ben Fifer and part two have you seen the Michael Porter Jr comparisons for him yes I have uh are crazy yeah I mean look if you uh I think physically like the the back the back problem current Michael Porter Jr I kind of see it that but Michael Porter Jr is was always a fantastic shooter like that’s that’s honestly I’m not that’s not why I brought that up earlier about Reet but if I knew he was the same level of shooter as Michael Porter Jr I would be a lot more sold on Reese you know mej is a truly special shot maker correct he and he always was right I think re as said is good but like not special right and that’s look I I will always I am not the biggest makaor Jun fan but one thing that is like unquestionable is that he’s always been a ridiculous shooter and he still he still is I think because mpj has that one at least one standout Bonafide Elite trait shooting off the dribble from movement from range that the rest of his limitations diminish and he has time to develop and improve like I think mpj has made pretty commendable strides he has yeah he’s always gonna be somewhat limited but I think reesea share where he’s always gonna be somewhat limited but doesn’t have that really highend ability at anything at any one thing to be like we’re gonna live with with Michael Porter Jr’s defense and passing because he’s gonna make every single transition three we catch to him no matter like and and we don’t have to worry about warping the defense and eliminating contests for this guy he’s gonna he just does he just ignores them have that like trump card thing that SAR and Holland and these guys have but again it is so critical for these top picks no it’s a good I’m glad you brought it up because it gives me you know for instance just to throw the number on it mpj is a career 41% three-point shooter on almost 11 attempts per 100 possessions that is huge volume and huge percentage and like look if you think re is gonna be that then yeah I’m a lot more sold I just haven’t that’s not available on tape at this point in time I I don’t think so I think really a good shooter AG has a pretty substantial sample of being very legit I agree like he even though he’s like has UPS in like you know I feel like people always get to or some people you know I’m not saying probably serious draft like casual fans maybe are like oh re Shar has been shooting 50% from three in the month of December and then it’s Rea Shar is shooting 30 or 25% from three in the month of March maybe he sucks it’s like no when you have this is just how it goes with 95% basketball players that aren’t this kind of shooter but when you total it out like 38 point this season 38.7% on 238 attempts like that’s not a fully stable sample but it’s it’s it’s it’s it matters like like again last couple years he was at like 30 31 and 32% um and then the year before 35% on much lower volume I don’t think he’s probably a thir 38% shooter or 39 on high volume I think that’s a little lofty but I do think there’s enough track record of him shooting at an NBA level and another kind of hangup that I have is the shot versatility which is such an important thing for projecting shooting because it showcases the ability to impacts multiple ways and not really have to have your offense dial in you so much as a shooter R Shar is a pretty solid movement shooter like he can come off of pin downs and screens doesn’t really showcase much off durable stuff um varying success versus contest actually can look that up right now I don’t think it’s straight but I could be totally wrong but no that’s my my hang up with him again is that I think he doesn’t have the kind of a guy like mpj right who can literally do any kind of shot that you want him to do whether it’s Sprint off movement Left Right forward momentum transition step back backwards momentum like side step it’s everything where that stuff matters and even though it’s not going to like be like heesy isos it’s okay you’re getting closed out at in this way do you have an answer and I think research sh like it’s not always going to be yes yeah and it’s it’s not a huge sample size because he’s not a huge free throw guy so far but he’s he’s like a low to mid 70 free throw shooter that’s not a great data point and has like pretty much has very little mid-range creation game um yeah so I mean we could keep going it’s just this is this is normal this is like I don’t want to like have sound make this sound like alarm Bells but he arding catch and shoots this year he was 43.8% guarded catch and shoot threes 35.3 so I think well that’s still pretty good like 35.3 guard is not bad anything it’s just I think it’s clear that he doesn’t necessarily always have the release Point versatility and the the footwork and you know handle stuff to always get around contests when he needs to which is obviously a huge thing for elite Shooters yeah and I do think just generally it kind of just gets everyone kind of agrees to some degree that he is a good shooter and you know especially in these more like you know capsule shorter thing descriptions of him that I’ve seen on you know mainstream places recently it’s like good shooter like okay yes that’s true but I think there’s a legitimate swing in his shooting of like if he’s great or really really good as a shooter that would be really helpful but if he’s just like a pretty good shooter and with GNA be a good player like well I mean it’ll be a good player but like in in a not not number one good yeah no that’s what yeah exactly that’s kind of what I I think he’ll there’s a lot of Pathways for him to be like a fourth fifth starter and that’s good player but is anyone going to be happy with that I don’t know absolutely not right and I think like again that’s why I’ve always said like I think I’ve said this on this podcast maybe the first time ever that like floor and ceiling are way more connected than most people tend to think right that like high ceiling players usually have high floor higher floors and lower lower ceiling players tend to have lower floors than people think and I think for a guy like reesea share right it’s like okay he’s really really safe in theory but what if he isn’t this shooter like like what if he’s like a decent shooter then he’s probably not a very good player or what if he can’t hold up on defense and he’s a good shooter like then he’s probably like a oneway version of this year probably not that great I I do think in general and we’ll stay away from the rabbit hole too much here but I do think in general floors for consensus lottery picks are generally understated I think people or maybe overstated I think the floor is usually lower for these guys than people want to say that it is and this not a thing I mean for most the vast majority of prospects and I think like the really the really Elite high ceiling guys it’s probably higher than people want to give him credit I think that’s it is I think I think it’s a good point you’re making that they are they are more correlated than you might think and um I won’t throw comps out there but look if you want to make and I won’t do it I if you want to be construced bust case for him I could make it I could see how his floor Falls below the world I’m not saying it’s going to happen I’d be kind of surprised I do think that the most likely outcome PES Shay is that he’s a pretty good player but pretty good players solid uh anyway um I want to get to clinging I want to quickly say one more thing on re share is that for a guy whose main cell is play finishing he really is not a good finisher at the moment um no Synergy has him at 47.1% on halfcourt layups that’s not great um and though he has the athleticism to dunk and I think his like his off ball movement is great he a super smart cutter gets himself into spots to to finish he he like it’s not just the physical limitations to me it’s maybe the lack of like flexibility in the upper body a lack of like creativity especially in traffic as well that make it that make me concerned it’s like okay well if you’re like an off ball three-point shooter I probably also want you to be a pretty good damn good finisher and I do think re’s ability to rise quickly and dunk does Boost that but that’s just one more additional kind of stealing but I don’t want to be so negative about re like he’s solid I I think he is too and I think in a normal class Hawks were picking at five I’d be like yeah this is like this conversation be totally different I I totally agree and like you one of the talking points recently as again recording this midweek um is you know the trade down scenarios and I think that Reese is gonna be gone if they trade down because their consensus seems to be that he’s going to go in the top two or three somewhere um but yeah if they were to go to four or five and get Reet like yeah sign me up for that I just that’s going to be a huge possibility and I think in a normal class if you’re looking at him as like a mid to late loty guy would be fine it’s just that’s not his classes Today’s show was brought to you by game time and authorized Tak Marketplace at the NBA and that makes getting basketball tickets faster and easier through the game time app with killer last man deals all in prices view receipts and the lowest possible price guarantee it’s a fantastic option to make things easy for you at game time I’ve been a regular user the app for quite some time now it’s coming to handy for me several times in the p with Braves and Falcons as well as other shows and concerts around the city of Atlanta and you can save big when buying last minute tickets for sports concerts comedy theater and much more they have 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NBA when you get there for $20 off your first purchase download the game time app right now today last minute tickets lowest price guaranteed so kingan is as you might expect polarizing locally uh I’ve seen every take possible about Donovan kingan from Hawks fans in the last couple weeks once’s became kind of real that the Hawks might just take him at one even like people started to weigh in and that’s what happens um he probably look he’s not as famous as bronny or something like that but he’s in the higher end of like just like people know who he is in this class because he was on the national champion he’s been on for yeah he was a two-year college guy right um people kind know who he is know also also he’s a giant white guy and that’s you know that’s that will bring out some takes in general just any more context there’s always something associated with that yeah so I don’t think I get the feeling that you’re not enthused about him at the top of the class uh I I I could give the the the more positive I do believe in his I do believe in his defense personally I do believe in the defense what do you think what do you think I was gonna say let’s start there on the positive side with kingan and then we can talk about his offense and kind of what maybe his translation is because there’s also like there’s this whole weird sub thing that’s happening right now about um him getting him getting compared to Rudy go which is logical but also people that don’t like Rudy goar saying that’s a bad thing and it’s like Rudy gobear is awesome what are we talking about but anyway right and it’s also probably not an accurate comparison just because of the difference in Mobility um where I think goar was always like a special mover and kingan is BET is solid and improved there but not great and he has a really good like he is another one like ree share where like he does what he does and isn’t super special anymore but I think the he does what he does is more valuable like a legit paint protector is more valuable to me than like a stationary three and D Wing where clean is an incredible RI like technical rim protector obviously just a towering enormous person but so good at timing the ball and using his length to get back to plays and like moving his hand at the perfect angle to to get on a ball and he’ll do this in drop he’ll do this from the post he’ll do this in more like mid drop as well I think the big thing one of the big things that moved me on kinging this year was his Mobility improvements and the way that he can now play in space better one of his big weaknesses to me is still like the ground coverage the high-end Mobility stuff that you know you don’t see Elite centers without this anymore like you don’t see Elite defensive centers without it’s just not how the NBA is anymore and I think kingan got better there like he’s much better staying with guards and you know chasing them and containing them in mid is drop coverage um I think it makes sense if the Hawks want to run like a bucks is style drop with him and then like that’s what Quinn Snyder likes that’s where he comes from um and I know and then you get into the the Brook Lopez comparisons defensively which I actually do Terri he’s the wrong guy to be comparing to Brook LZ that’s khil we but that’s neither here nor there no I just said that’s one you hear I mean you hear Rudy you hear Brook and you know it is it there’s got different polls and I do think that he has and you mentioned he he has gotten better with his movement skills look I want to say that he a weird that so I’ve been working on like a defensive grading scale where I like try to like assign a numerical value to a bunch of different defensive traits and grade them and kingan does extremely well in in that system for me which which makes sense because like again I currently have him as the sixth best defender in this class by this scale which is pretty good I think maybe like lower I don’t know if it’s lower or higher than people would expect but that’s I would probably guess I probably guess lower I think generally he’s probably seen as like a top two or three defender in the class but I get it I mean it’s it is yeah I mean the ones I have ahead of him are dunar Holland Mei and Isaiah Crawford but kingan Ry Ryan D I’m fact he is an incred is an incredible rim protector and got better in like the perimeter and Awareness stuff and just doesn’t have any glaring defensive holes right like he’s a good rebounder he can playmake and create events he’s got a pretty good motor he has good awareness he’s well positioned um he’s a solid enough like ISO post Defender that I do think the the way he fails is definit like it’s he’s like a can’t miss Surefire 100% basically no one is then the way he but the way he fails is not defensively well and for me uh failure is interesting with him because I I don’t know about maybe you disagree I just made the case that most people’s floors are lower um I think kingan’s defensive floor is still like NBA Center like I don’t I don’t really see him being like not a how I put this I don’t see him being a bad NBA Defensive Player like that that’s that doesn’t make sense to me like that does that’s not a possibility the problem would be if he’s not great yeah if he’s not a good at least good Defender then it starts to get a little bit wonky with his offense but um I do believe in his defense as like look there’s there is an argument to be had we we tal we touched on earlier about like what are you trying to build between title Contender upside all those things things and like there are some potential limitations even if you buy kling’s defense to what you have to do with Donan kingan defensively now on the on the other hand this is what I was saying earlier about making the case around Atlanta if you’re building around Trey young you can’t run a lot of defensive schemes that Boston runs for instance like so there is an argument to be had to like pair Trey with a with a with a drop with a drop big who’s really good and my cter would be that star can just be that but better in three years and and okay I’m not even I that’s a very reasonable Point all I would say yeah no I think no I think it’s it’s a good record it’s a good rort um I just yeah I think they for me it’s always been easier to make the case for kingan in Atlanta this High than it would have been in a lot of different places because they have Trey yeah that clinging to reea share like for sure I I I I also do um but okay so that’s a good bridge to his offense right so clean uh has really great translation numbers offensively I know like I saw you know Kevin pelton’s stat model like he does really well he was super efficient in college which definitely helps he’s he was a good finisher the passing is really good um but what do you think of his offense in the NBA like take away the the Yukon Perfection Dan Hurley’s system was fantastic all that stuff they put him in a normal situation in the NBA what’s it look like offensively what do you think I think that that’s kind of the Crux of the point right is that I view clingan’s offense as more concerning right um I think he’s a great screener he’s going to be a good finisher like he’s not a crazy athlete or anything right but he’s like a good enough athlete and dunker and he’s long and has pretty good I think he has I I think his touch maybe has been like a little overstated like I think I’ve seen some people saying it’s like elite elite where I think it’s like I don’t know if I think it’s like Elite but it’s good it’s definitely I think probably probably because the numbers are so good because and they are the numbers are really good like because all of his efficiency stats are are great part of that’s just that he’s so he’s so he’s so big I mean it’s worth noting just how massive he act I mean I guess because Ed’s in his class I feel like if Ed wasn’t in the class people would talk about how big lingan is more does that definitely possible he’s a gigantic human being who who by the way I was at that I was at the title game in person and uh not to do a Zack not to do a Zack Ed Jag but the fact that Z makes donov look like he’s normal size just speaks to how big Zach is yeah but it’s like yeah but again where it’s like kingan is who he is he is a play finisher screener offensive rebounder some I I’m I don’t know if you’ve seen any of my tweets about this but I I am a little skeptical of his passing and I think this gets at a broader point where I am forever skeptical of Dan Hurley era Yukon offensive player players most most players we we say it you know everyone says like spacing is going to be better in the league trans translation offensively better playing with better players right like it’s like Kier Ron SAR anyone anyone you can think of basically except for the Yukon players where almost certainly most of them maybe even clay are going to a situation that relative to competition level is worse than what they had in college it’s going to be worse spaced it’s going to be worse coached relative to competition level obviously not saying Yukon is wor better than NBA but right but no it’s a good point I think my general issue that it’s not that because I feel like that’s kind of like a whatever thing like like like a like a tablish take but I think the the reason for that is because of Hurley’s system on offense that is so brilliantly timed and organized and they’ll run like first into second into third actions like like NBA teams do or even better than some and I think most of kingan’s passing that I saw was like structured kind of read that aren’t super valuable to me in the modern NBA where most competent offensive bigs can do that I remember this conversation like with Ona coming out where it was like he was doing some of these like high post reads and it was like oh he can’t really like you know he’s not a good passer because he has these learn reads but I think that’s becoming more and more common as more offenses like run through big hubs that we like that that Trend away that we’re seeing and Clingan can certainly do that but I don’t think he’s adding a ton of value like passing into Tight Windows or doing any high level stuff with vision and the problem with that is that at the NBA level right the the windows get get smaller the athletes get better the timing gets Tighter and I when that happens I don’t know if kingan is gonna be this incredible passer where yeah like I think he can execute a system but Hurley I think part of the Brilliance of Hurley’s system especially with guys like castle and Andre Jackson last year is how he orases players weaknesses like it’s how it’s how he just makes them non-issues and that’s always my fear for these guys in visible and invisible ways that like maybe there’s something we just didn’t think about that Clingan never had to deal with on that offense that oh [ __ ] he’s like in the NBA now um but yeah that’s kind of my my pessimistic clinging offensive player case but I think he’s like probably gonna be solid but I do think there’s a sneaky low floor there I would um I think all that is fair I think I’m a little higher on it on the offense than you um yeah and also just I want just to some Hawks color and look at I don’t know if they’re going to take him um but as someone who watches every second of every Hawks game uh people will note this that the Hawks started running a lot more stuff through their bigs even though they even though like someone like capella right not not a strength of his right like but they asked him to do a little bit more of that this year just out because I think Quinn wanted to just see how it would work because he was used to running Rudy used to run a lot of dho stuff in Utah etc etc and I think that there’s been rumors that Quinn likes kingan and it’s not a shock to see why if you watch you know Quinn Quinn watching kingan do that stuff in college just kind of like it’s a perfect mesh of his old and new you know philosophy his old experience with gobear and now his experience with bringing guys out and using these ball skills you guys but I will also use that as a point to say like basically it’s it’s more rare that starting level bigs cannot do this these days then can do it like with a guy like go like you said running DH like goar is a terrible offensive player maybe even worse than he used to in some ways but he was able to run some of the stuff and like you said capella this year not a high field guy not a super skilled guy was able to execute some basic off I cly certainly haven’t watched as much as you did but I no no but it’s just worth noting like that in you know in the Hawks games like C okay they they the fact that they tried it was like controversial because they were trying it and I think everyone knew that like that’s not Clint’s strength but Quinn wanted to put more of his system in so he was like Hey Clint you’re gonna have to do this I want Center to be able to do this kind of thing and again this is I think this is another kind of example of the differing priorities of an organization where if your priority is let’s get us a player that our coach doesn’t really have to think about developing and is gonna fit what he wants to do right now then that’s that’s gonna that that’ll have pull right and L if if if they draft kingan if they draft kingan that I’m not saying that’s gonna be the reason why but that that is almost certainly part of it if they do right exactly and like I said I’m not saying that’s wrong or like incorrect just that it’s different from the goals of maximizing your Championship window where I think one of the most important things about a championship Elite level team is having like Bonafide Elite paint protection especially on a Trey young team which you know we’ve I think we’ve talked about plenty times over the years about how generally think it’s possible to build a title team around Trey it just takes a lot of diligence and I think like getting like maybe you want to wait for one of these really Elite guys like I almost think about it as like drafting quarterbacks like maybe you want to wait for one of these like game changers I think in the next coming draft sorry I I had I had to get my FAL take off I don’t wanna I feel like my answer would upset um upset FAL fans I I recently listen to um I’m sure people will listen to um Raheem Morris on the athletic football show talked to Robert may I heard that as well yeah but his his I feel like his description of the penic pi did not make me feel bad about I I I agree with you uh and we’ll save that we’ll save the rest of that for later Today’s show was brought to you by prize picks and a prize pick you turn $10 into $1,000 in a single game when watching your favorite sports this summer you can make a lineup of prize picks in it’s little 60 seconds which is huge if you’re busy like I happen to 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locked on NBA for first- time deposit match up to $100 One More Time download the app use promo code locked on NBA when you get there for first time deposit match right now with the folks at priz picks pick more pick less it’s that easy with priz picks well I want to make sure before I before we get out of here that we get we get we get to we get to other guys that are not those three um yeah we’ll go on them if you want to do Holland pitch you can uh second one go I was gonna say I do think just as a as a general rule the Hawks if the Hawks trade down they might be trading down and try to get kinging but um I I’ve said this before I’ll see again on this show if you trade down you cannot trade down and assume you’re getting exactly exactly one player so they have to if they’re if they were going to do that again big if if they were going to trade down they got to widen a little bit and they have brought in guys for for workouts I know a few guys have been in modest has been in Holland’s been in um Cody Williams was in which is interesting um but yeah go go ahead and give your Ron pitch because he is one B for you as you said earlier I believe that Ron is maybe the highest cealing Prospect in this entire draft and I think the weaknesses with him are frankly quite overstated as it’s so common for high usage 18-year-old initiators to be like inefficient where Ron is a legitimately special Wing athlete and that manifest obviously on defense where he’s like will fall asleep sometimes but is unbelievably locked down has incredible movement skills is explosive is long is strong and an offense is a dominant downhill Advantage creator with his burst and with his strength and with his great diverse handle that improved so much this year I think he’s a legitimately versatile and creative pick and roll passer and that can blossom with better decision making which will come in an easier role and he has like he’s so new to needing to to shoot and I think he made enough strides this year to have me confident enough in him developing a jumper and again this is the thing where like even if Ron never develops a jumper this is my thing about these guys being safer than the build BS he’s gonna he’s going to be impactful as a driver as a Defender as a rebounder as a an energy guy which maybe isn’t gonna be end up being a star but like I think at his floor he’ll be Derrik Jones but at his ceiling he could legit be like a I think a top 25ish level player as like a legit two-way score scoring star and I think that with the with with the risks Associated of course playing in the g- league didn’t help him and help his status it did not uh no just say out loudy yeah we we agree on Ron generally Ian I wouldn’t have him quite as high as you but I don’t I don’t understand why he’s mocked in the teens I I don’t I don’t get that at all um it’s gonna it’s it’s gonna be obvious again I don’t know yeah and maybe look maybe there’s a reason I’m missing but and look the shooting is I get it he can’t shoot right now okay I’m not like I won’t call myself sourced but I definitely have spoken to people and it seems like I there there have been um floats about his quote unquote character maybe well I I just think that I think we may talk about this last time how overblown like the the 18-year-old character things are well he he also he also always reportedly had great makeup like exactly I’m saying everything like I’ve heard publicly or privately like he is a psychopath competitively works hard as hell like maybe like the he’ll be like offputting to people but that seems like a pretty harsh judgment to make of like a teenager you barely know and an 18-year-old at that especially one who’s like it’s obvious on the floor that he’s like a psycho motor competitive guy like I don’t know if you if you remember like the end of like the FEA like U7 or something tournament against Spain it’s this like on YouTube where FL Cooper flag had like nine BL nine blocks and like 10 steals or whatever um and Spain in the final he was like trying to fight people at the end of that game and it is like on YouTube it’s there like he yeah like this this like me that’s the mentality I’d prefer than like we were talking about mentality with SAR and like reeeer a little bit like but but yeah I don’t know I think Ron is being well overthought by in my opinion we we we definitely agree there um you could go down as far as you want on the board but do you have I know you have favorite players favorite deeper guys that you’re higher on so who we wouldn’t have talked about last time that’s fair I mean I I don’t think we did any lottery or like like like yeah you could talk about trade down guys I mean I I I haven’t talked as since since the lottery I haven’t talked as much about like Modis I haven’t talked much about Cody Williams like that kind of tiar guy because we did second rounders already um we did and we also did a little bit of that late lottery mid got because we thought that’s where the Hawks were going to be when we last talked which is even I like did like three weeks of uh I did I did some podcasts in April like late April early May about like the 10th pick because that’s where they’re supposed to be and it’s like those are those became kind of irrelevant but now they’re kind of maybe back to being kind of relevant again talk about some of these guys um Modis is in I guess we can do Modis and Cody because they both worked out even though I’m lower on Cody and higher on Modis okay buellis to me has one of the more interesting high-end outcomes in the class where 6 10 guys with his kind of driving creativity and movement skill paired with Elite Rim protection upside it’s a very unique combination of skills that we just don’t see very often where modest like I believe in the shot enough he’s great great touch great free throw great mid-range was better in high school volume is solid enough like on a terrible team in the g- league whatever adjusting to the G League Line I believe in his shooting enough to unlock his great driving he is confident aggressive wins with his length and flex ability and ability to bend and get low and create creative solution he’s just like really weak and can’t move anybody right now like he is super behind physically again like reare probably even worse um but he is so skilled I love his mentality defensively like I said not like the craziest athlete explosively but super technically sound great timing amazing instincts and like rotations and stuff and I think again with strength with strength development could develop into a really good Defender um I think again just like a really interesting upside swing um Hawks fit kind of talking about SAR offense is going to be easier playing with Trey than it was at he had his guards in ignite were like were like John Jenkins admont Gilder and teenagers no no John J slander on this podcast Hawks Legend Hawk nobody nobody was passing him the ball Ron it was Ron really it was Ron it was basically as the number one option no I mean I’ve said this before but I would encourage enourage people just for context to watch G night for a couple of games between now and the draft really bad just the the way they had to play The Supporting Cast you know there’s there’s some Towers Smith debates out there I know Josh lyd is like the highest person in the world on on on tow Smith um like it’s it’s but great no I like him too but I’m just saying they had they had three first round picks on this team and the rest of the roster was just like a complete disaster I don’t know it was just I felt bad the whole thing with the was that they were G to build a team with like good veterans and like they had like when they had like Jared Jack and Amir Johnson it was great but yeah at the beginning at the beginning they actually did that and they stopped you need to have veterans better are like their purpose you know it’s not like purpose like but like their skill sets and abilities are tailored to be complimentary and not like not not like John Jenkins no offense and that is why they got rid of theight program and that’s why they long exist that was the last ignite so yeah anyway probably I think certainly for the best agreed uh do you like Cody Williams I mean I you kind just tease that you kind of maybe don’t as much I like him more than I used to I was pretty low but like I’ve moved up a little bit because I think there’s an interesting upside with him but even more than modest I think like physically underdeveloped whereas Modis is a dynamic Creator like with his handle and creativity Cody really struggles to create separation and to create advantages um and isn’t isn’t really a shooter like I think he shot like 40% or whatever on like super low volum tiny yeah um yeah he shot 41 threes this year um and he like a mid free throw shooter mid like long two Creator his touch is incredible that is his best trait it is the touch combined with his great movement skills the fact that he is so incredibly fluid and flexible and fast for a six7 guy with a 73 wingspan or whatever um and that he can get to his spot in weird ways and finish at crazy angles like his touch is absurd like it is truly crazy I think that plus the wingspan can give him like interesting upside stuff and I think that Mobility is also really like evident on defense where it’s upside as like a screen Chaser on ball guy is high but in the end it’s like I don’t know like I have worries about what the upside actually is um no he shot 71% on halfcourt layups which that’s like 20% better than star yeah and I I I actually saw Jonathan werman say a similar thing I heard the other day um that like a couple of teams in the top five or six like are in on Cody Williams and like he might be like a like one of those surprising guys who goes higher um and I wouldn’t be shocked by that I’m not super in but you know at a certain point in the late Lottery like sure I definitely understand I have him like late teens but I would totally understand taking him mid late Lottery like I think it’s yeah I think I have have a good plan and like a good plan and infrastructure and know that he’s not going to be ready for a couple years but like if you’re baking that in then that’s understandable yeah he’s uh an interesting Prospect for sure I mean the one guy that other than uh I guess really the only guy I’m looking at the list now um other than like Rob Dillingham who the Hawks would just can’t take for positional reasons um the guy that they haven’t worked out to my knowledge and that has just like been off is is Steph castle and I wonder if that’s because they they have not worked out step castle and the only the only thing I think of is you remember that report around the combine that castle wasn’t going to work out for teams that head point guards I wonder if the Hawks wanted to work him out and he said no just a guess I don’t know I don’t I’m not reporting that at all but I’m just that’s you’re muted Ben hello hello hello you’re back okay it’s okay what I meant to say was that I I just don’t think it’s like realistic I don’t know like yeah no I I just it struck me as odd that he was the because you know they they went they went down below him on the consensus SP I mean he’s I don’t think he’s a point guard to be clear I think he’s a wing me too I think he’s a wing for sure um I did a YouTube video where I notably I think Dove back into his high school in a tape which a lot of people have been propping up like he was this initiator in high school and Au when in reality he had like a lot of the same issues and wasn’t that great as an initiator there were there were more flashes for sure he did more but yeah always the same problems with like shooting volume and Creation in a half court and burst and explosion and ability to create separation like I think he’s an awesome connective player and honestly he would be sicka he would no I I I I was gonna say I I I’m the same way I think if they were to trade down he would be firmly in play for me if I’m the Hawks like I would be very intrigued by Steph Castle in that four to seven R whatever it would be at that point wherever you go um I yeah I don’t know if they’re Crossing him off I don’t know if he doesn’t want to be here I don’t know why he hasn’t worked out any of that stuff I’m just saying in a vacuum analysis wise he makes a lot of sense with Trey in my opinion um I think he makes a lot of sense defense defensively I buy everything about absolutely like he’s gonna be a good player like he I me I guess if he’s really like a harmful shooter right who like you like leave open then he’s probably not going to be good but like assuming that’s the concern yeah I mean the concern is he really can’t shoot it and he becomes a backup because he can’t shoot and that’s I think you can still be an NBA player without being able to shoot yeah it’s just yeah it’s like I think that’s unfortunately possible Right like we saw how teams guarded him in the tournament they they just sagged off of him um they just didn’t they’re like we don’t really care no he was the one guy I mean I I literally saw them play their last four games he was the one guy that teams would leave like he was he was the guy that game planned instead of being for the game the game planned off of him like they he was the every team that they played against late just decided we’re not guarding you and granted Yukon was so loaded that they were didn’t really have a problem with that and to his credit he was able to cut and make you know he he did a good job I thought filling gaps but that might be a preview of what he’s gonna have to do in the NBA if he doesn’t come around so yeah it’s um and again this is the exact same thing with kinging where Hurley’s system is perfectly optimized to make a guy like castle look amazing by putting him in situations pretty much only where he’s asked to do what he’s great at what he’s he’s screening he’s rolling he’s passing on the short roll he’s making connected decisions he’s driving with strength like but that’s like not how NBA the NBA works but I think like if there is a place it might work it would be Atlanta yeah I think it’s a great F honestly honly kind of sad if he’s like you know not if it’s true that like not considering because of the poer thing it’s like no I I don’t know that to be true I’m just I I think it seems true like Atlanta it’s just one of those things whereit secondary Wing Handler right forever it struck me as interesting that they uh you know and again this is gavone what gavon reported who’s as who’s come through and it was literally like the top like eight of the top 10 guys and the two guys who haven’t come are SAR which has been talked about a million times already and then and Castle everybody else has come so we’ll see um anybody down the board you want to mention before we get out of here I don’t want to keep you any longer um but anybody anybody further down that you love that you just can’t control your your affection for at this at this point that you want to call your shot on it would be much better value to take khil wear or Eve Mei in the late teens than it would be to take kingan at one um I think clinging is better than those two but I don’t think it’s magnitudes of 20 picks I think both of them while being different players provide that like tall traditional five who can play Drop at the very least but I think wear and Mei honestly both have like while probably aren’t as safe as K cling in like where is has the motor ISS where has the motor issues and some of the consistency stuff Mei has some of the feel problems and like the consist in the consistency on defense but Mei is like a freak mover athlete who like moves like a six six Wing despite being 611 with a 72 in Span just erases everything where can legit space the floor and it’s like a crafty as hell score while being an awesome room protector like I think these two while being riskier for sure also have like maybe higher ceilings than a guy like Clingan um so not saying that they’re better than kingan just that like it doesn’t make sense to me to take clinging in one when you can trade down to like to 15 and like almost guarantee one of those guys are going to be there obviously you know you can never guarantee when you trade down but right of course but know by the way I don’t think I’ve talked about Mei at all on this podcast we can talk about me I like him just generally speaking and uh he may he might do nothing else but the way he moves like you mentioned I think defensively he’s gonna be good and I think he can finish around the rim and like it might be a very simple evaluation for Eve Missy but like I’m saying look it will shock me if he’s a Hulk because it would just take so many minations to get to a spot but I just and that’s why about him but I I I I like Eve Missy I think there’s a lot of intriguing especially at a certain point I’m not saying take him in the top 10 because there’s a limit to what that package probably be honestly I’m not gonna lie I just did a so I’m just I apologize for this plug but it’s relevant I just a on my on my YouTube channel that might be out when you’re listening to this but I picked Mei in the top 10 so I will say that no and that’s nothing crazy about that at all I just uh I just really as we were saying it’s very uncommon but um no I was talking to I can’t remember who I was talking to recently that had has a lot maybe Brian schroer somebody has a lottery pick on too um anyway but yeah like the downside with him is real again but like he has a legitimately ridiculous ceiling that I’m like if he hits I will like if he hits and we pass on him I will regret that if I am a GM not it’s like where it’s like if you pass on kinging you know you kind of know what you’re passing on right it’s like okay we we know for sure that when we pass on Clingan we’re passing on like a good drop big who’s like going to be you know could be a really valuable starter and like that’s something we are aware of where it’s Mei it’s like we could be passing on a guy who’s legit like GameChanger on defense with like movement stuff and he can legit dribble too which is his other special thing that he’s like a crazy weird good like crater Handler for a big to but yeah that’s my my cases for you’re you’re in on Eve Missy hi I can see that it’s stupidly in on him maybe too much so but I think there’s a chance he’s going to be really damn good I was gonna say one one last call for for Ben for Ben’s guys in this class that we can uh highlight for people even if they and look I I’ve said this but the hwks might be able to get in the second round like it’s not hard to get in the second round if they want to on day two and like NAB somebody so I want at least want to have some sort of you know awareness of Who’s down there that you might like if you got anybody I’m trying to think of anyone who is particularly hawy um not to just make them take all the Duke players but I think MC both McCain and flip would be pretty interesting for them um yeah I like I like flip in Atlanta again I don’t I don’t know how they’re supposed to get him because it’ just be weird like the range he’s going in but I tend to like flip more than people do I think you know the question for me is can he hold it defensively and I think I think he can he’s not gonna be great but I think he’s yeah he’s going to do it and Flip Flip I think his offensive versatility is like beyond anything that like it’s like John like the John Collins thing where his whole appeal was like being like a perimeter versatile offensive big um it’s gonna look very different for flip like much less athletic not you know more skilled passer type but being a a super versatile offensive big that can do a bunch of stuff with and without Trey and like is a passable Defender and he’s like a legit seven-footer like he is a he is a true seven footer yeah I I think by the way I think in a world where they didn’t uh take klling and orar and um you could add filipowski like to a Kong wo and Jaylen in the front court that kind of I think him and akong make sense together like I think just because Flip’s a very big power forward but he’s got perimeter skills aong is of course undiz at Center but love about him is that he has all this I think he’s the best big man passer in the probably he’s maybe the best big man dribbler in the class but he also has like the traditional stuff right like he can rebound post um finish exactly like is super physical just overall and I think that all of that bodess really really well for him to be a fantastic fantastic player I I am a fan and you mentioned it fact that he went to Duke I mean the Hawks just draft just draft Duke guys that’s all they do dude and so which means we have to talk about McCain as well who I think would be like again it’s like small guard pairing with Trey but I think it’s they still don’t they still don’t have like an off ball guard like obviously I think it’s Bo it’s bogy I mean they have bogy and that’s he’s the only but he’s it that’s all they have yeah yeah I was thinking of more of a wing but yes like it’s like that’s not what Deon likes to do it’s not what Trey likes to do that is what McCain can do he is a ridiculous shooter on and off the ball shoots from well beyond NBA range always like ready to shoot and catch and organized can shoot off movement can shoot pull-ups like basically everything you want as a shooter he can do and he’s like he’s a pretty smart pick and roll playmaker he’s strong and stocky on both ends of the floor like not going to be a great defender but I think he’s going to be pretty solid whereas I think that’s a guy you can afford to play with Trey especially if you can get um like a you know a guy like I don’t know kingan or or whoever just get really good defensive pieces around I think he can work makes sense to me uh well Ben thank you for doing this I sincerely appreciate it as always you have a lot going on so you already plugged one thing the mock thing but you’re writing like five places please plug it all tell people where I find everything I’m lucky to be busy at the moment I’ll say that it’s a good thing it’s a good thing but yeah you know I’m doing a bunch of like writing and video stuff that you can all find on my Twitter but the main thing I’m I’m actually going to plug is my draft my live draft draft stream Where um I will be on live during the draft covering both um day one and day two all of that we’re gonna be you know doing big board and stuff and I’ll have guests on hopefully Mr Brad Roland will be on the show yeah I’m gonna try try try try to find a corner of the of the of the Hawks practice not maybe on day two he’ll come and see it’s gonna be fun because on day one I want to have like I’m gonna have like some other people on like legit talking about the pics and like whatever reporting there is and on Dat I’m like let’s just like say like name some guys or whatever um but yeah that’s gonna be that’s gonna be on my YouTube channel which is just my name Ben Fifer um I do stream on there sometimes now but like it’s it’s such a fun time just hanging out with everyone and watching the pics and I can’t promise I’ll you know you’ll like my analysis but it’ll it’ll be more in depth than no I I I I definitely recommend it um I keep getting people now that ask me why I’m not going to be live on YouTube during the draft and I’m always like I’m GNA literally be covering the draft so I can’t really be live in the middle of the room uh but people don’t care about people don’t P you just pull your phone out in like the media room while the picture the the thing is been like people don’t care that I’m covering the draft they just want their own they want the content that they like which is I understand I have to go like talk to Landry you know Brad how can I get you to Vlog the draft uh I you know I I don’t think the Hawks would love that but hey they don’t love what I say usually so it is what it is you can pull mat thy ball and become a vlogger just turn just turn it around like wait for landre feels to come out for his press conference and just turn my turn my camera around just what’s up guys well uh yeah go really loud uh well anyway thank you Ben people should be checking out your work uh you were gracious enough to join me at least once a year if not more than that on this show and I very much appreciate all the time we could have gone another hour but it is I’m excited for next year uh I mean you know you’re getting the call at some point during the probably during the season and then after the season as we try to bug you twice it’s gonna be so much better yeah the Cooper flag show begins soon and he’s not the only one in this in that next class um anyway check out Ben’s work I appreciate everybody listening to the podcast subscribe to this show and we’ll see you all next time

Brad Rowland (@BTRowland) hosts episode No. 1745 of the Locked on Hawks podcast, and he is joined by Ben Pfeifer (@bjpf_) for Part 2 of a 2-part discussion. The discussion focuses on the Atlanta Hawks and the 2024 NBA Draft with less than one week to go, including Alex Sarr, Zaccharie Risacher, Ron Holland, Donovan Clingan, trade-down candidates, Ben’s favorite prospects, and much more.

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