Digging into the second apron and ways for the Bucks to climb out of it this offseason

Digging into the second apron and ways for the Bucks to climb out of it this offseason

coming up on today’s locked on bucks we head into a big week here with the NBA draft just days away do we expect any moves to be made by the Bucks that remains to be seen but a lot to get into here in this off season it begins this week and we’re joined by Van FAS of Brew hoop to dig through all of it what we could potentially see by uh the Bucks here and more importantly a thorough explanation on the second apron and why the Bucks are desperately trying to get out of that we get into that conversation coming up next year on lock on bucks you are locked on bucks your daily Milwaukee Bucks podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day welcome into locked on bucks I’m Justin Garcia joined by Camille Davis and we thank you for making locked on bucks your first listen every day today’s episode is brought to you by FanDuel make every moment more as the playoffs wind down the sports uh Sports start sporting this summer FanDuel is hooking up all customers with a boost or a bonus daily that is right something for everybody all day every day all summer long visit fanduel.com lockon to get started it is the week of the NBA draft we know the Bucks uh hold up a pretty high pick in the second round and the 23rd pick in the first round what happens with that pick we’ve already talked about quite a bit here these last couple of weeks we will get into some thoughts on that first round pick and the implications of either keeping it or trading it but uh to help us pour through all of that and basically a second offseason primer here the managing editor of Brew hoop. comom van FZ and Van as we were getting set up here we were talking through some of these second apron things and I mentioned too you beat Frank to the punch on the explanation of look the Bucs are locked in to the second apron for this season that ends uh what eight days something like that from now on the 30th of June before the new league year begins their second apron team for that year there are some ways to get out of the second apron for this upcoming season we will get into all of that and u a lot to touch on with that first round draft pick but uh first and foremost thank you for joining us on the show today and I mentioned too we were going to do basically and I don’t want to talk down to the audience but a second apron for dummies of look we’ve told you it’s bad here’s the reasons why it is bad I guess before we pour it over all the details and and what you could see happening let’s just start with the easiest thing possible do you think the Bucks are going to be a second a for team next year as well H it’s it’s it’s hard to handicap those odds but I do think they are going to look to get under it because it’s really the only way um they can meaningfully I think reshape the middle of the roster because otherwise they’re just going to be limited to what they were limited to last season which is Veterans minimum and um you know second round first round draft picks they have one this year but yeah I think that um there there is a way under it and based on some of the things we’ve seen come out especially in the last few days uh I think they are looking actually to to get under it and um that will reduce their payroll but I think more importantly and I think what they’re that’s not their motivation I think their motivation is um making these cost cutting moves to gain the flexibility that you get from being beneath the second apron because uh I don’t think it’s an issue of the bucks or the ownership not being willing to spend it’s just these are the rules now and um yeah you have to if you’re the Bucks you have to make a cost cutting move in order to gain access to a lot of the the the better tools you can use to add players to this roster Camille before you jump in here um I guess the way to look at it is it’s kind of like especially those the first credit card you had in college where you’re right up against your max you submit that payment of all right I’m gonna make this payment and it gives me x amount of dollars to spend you spend it and then the bill comes and you’re over your maximum because of the taxes or or the interest rate I should say and everything else that’s basically the spot the Bucks and all these other teams are in of we can find ways to get under the second apron right now that will open up the taxpayer mid level and some other things for us and then next year we’re right back there and it may be even more tough to avoid yeah it definitely could be and you mentioned just in two when we started just saying like you know don’t want to talk down to the audience I say it often like explain the salary cap to me like I’m five years old because one it’s brand new with all of these new rules they have with the second apron with the first apron so some of just getting used to the terminology and getting used to a new CBA so we keep mentioning the fact you know that the Bucks are a second apron Team B could you take the time too and just talk about the difference between the first apron and the second apron team and like what the bugs might be trying to do and why they’re trying to shed the salary like and what ways are they handicapped with building the roster out with them being a second apron team sure so the first apron is really that’s been around for a while and it used to be the only apron you might recall that in the championship season uh the Bucks were hard capped there was some talk about that uh and that meant they were hard capped at what is now the first apron back then it was the only apron and the reason that happened is because I believe it was triggered by assigning Bobby poris to the by anual exception um it that’s one of the things that can trigger a hard cap they may have had some other move that I’m forgetting but uh regardless that’s a number you can’t cross when it’s the The League salary cap do we call it a soft cap because you can you can go over it by as I mean you could be like the the Warriors and the Suns and go over it by tens and tens of millions of dollars and pay all the associated penalties uh as long as you’re not hard capped but uh so that’s why it’s a soft cap but if you do a few things you’re hard capped now um as far as what you can can’t do uh what happened with the what’s happening now with the first apron is actually pretty similar to what you know the Bucks dealt with in 2020 um the restrictions are the same like if you acquire a player via sign and trade like if the Bucks were to try to sign a free agent and then send out some players to make it work with their cap sheet you’re hard capped at the first apron using any part of that by annual exception um which you know if you’re way over the first apron like the buck you don’t have access to anyway and then also uh the classic uh the mid-level exception which um this coming year is going to be around 13 a little bit under 13 million um if you use any more than the What’s called the taxpayer portion of the mid-level exception which uh is $5.2 million you get hard capped at the first apron so that’s basically to say like every team can well every team that’s under the second apron has access to the mid-level exception the more you’re under if you’re under the first apron if you’re under the tax then you um I shouldn’t say the first apron you have to be under the tax level which the Bucks are not then you can spend up to 13 million that’s how the Nicks were able to acquire Dante D venzo last off season for signing him um but if you spend more than that percentage of it whatever it is uh but uh in in for this year it’s going to be 5.2 million uh a couple years ago Joe Engles was the signing he got the taxpayer portion of the mid- level which is like 6.4 million I think at that time um if you go so if you go beyond that 5.2 million you’re hard capped at the uh the the well if you go past that you’re hard capped at the first apron um and there are a few other uh restrictions to the first apron I guess maybe the the the most um notable one for that is taking back more than 10% of the salary you’re sending out in a trade uh so you could add a little bit of salary as long as it’s less than 10% more now that’s all stuff that uh will happen if you’re you know closing in on the first apron if you do any of that stuff you’re hard capped at the first apron you cannot spend any more than that in the upcoming League year the first apron this year I’m looking it’s about 178.6 million bucks um now I’ll tie this in with the Bucks a little bit right now the bucks for 2024 2025 if all of these Sal numbers I I want to preface with a couple caveats I guess three caveat uh one we’ll talk about this is that they’re keeping their first round pick next week and um the associated slot value of that is about $2.9 million um it’s 120% of the rookie slot value that’s the the hold they have the salary cap hold so that number is included also uh fully guaranteeing AJ Green uh for next year is non- guaranteed for next year until I think it’s July 7th so they’ve got to make a decision whether or not to keep him I think it’s pretty clear they’re going to keep him so his full salary next year guaranteed a part of these numbers I’m gonna say and the last one is Andre Jackson Jr who is also he’s got a partial guarantee for next year um but that decision isn’t due until the League wide date which is in January so um technically he’s only got about 945 ,000 guaranteed right now but for the purposes of this let’s assume that he gets that full guarantee when the comes that’s going to put the Bucks salary like the total team salary at 85.8 million way over the first apron but we’re closing on the second apron now right the second apron is $19.5 million so stay with me here at the second apron here are the the new restrictions that uh were instituted with the 2023 NBA collective bargaining agreement and some of these took place uh some of these took hold last summer um but a few of them were worked in more gradually but as of July 1 all of this is going to be in effect um so as we might remember from last year one of the things that will hardcap you at the second apron so let’s say you’ve got what the Bucks have the salary approaching 189.5 if you use any portion of the mid-level exception like forget about 5.2 million if you use even a million of that um you’re hard capped at that apron um sending out cash is part of a trade that’s actually somewhat important the Bucks have done that in recent years they did it last year they sent out uh cash on draft night to get a second round pick that became Andre Jackson Jr um I believe or was that I I think it was him and I don’t think they traded a future second round pick for him I forget but regardless the Bucks have done that many times they’ve bought a second round pick I mean the Warriors basically pioneered it early early in their run where they were the team of fine we’ll just buy draft picks and that’s how we’ll start to accumulate some young players exactly um and then the final one which is uh the one that I think you know this this is a newer one that wasn’t a part of uh calculations in the trade machines last offseason and whatever anyone was trying to figure out as far as getting players to certain teams is if you’re over the second apron as the Bucks are you cannot aggregate two players salaries in a trade and what that means is you can’t trade out more than one player you can trade one player and get multiple players back that’s permissible but the Bucks cannot put two players together in a trade if they’re over that second apron um I’m sure we’ll talk more about that uh but before I go on I think it’s important to to note a couple things uh one you might be saying hey van that’s uh under the second apron right $1 189.5 million uh is under this is the is the second apron and they’re like almost four million under that that’s true however the second apron does include unlikely contract benefits which means that last season uh the only player in the Bucs who had some of that language in his contract was Chris Middleton uh he need to play 65 games to get to that that that benefit um to hit that bonus of course he did not uh so the Bucks aren’t paying it however just because they’re not paying it and just because that and that salary would have that that that Ben that benefit pushed them over the second neighbor last year doesn’t matter it does not matter um all of those and I actually found where it says this in the CBA because a few of us uh caps sios were trying to figure out how exactly this worked but as of the last day of the regular season I’m sorry the day after whatever your salary was including all unlikely benefits that’s your number for the second apron the Bucks were over that the the league does not figure out what bonuses are hit and on that aren’t until June 30th so the Bucks were a second apron team immediately after the regular season ended regardless of any benefits next year they also are facing these unlikely benefits with Chris Middleton so that bumps their salary up from their team salary is 18 185. eight million right um you add in those benefits and you’ve got a 188 million you’re closing in on it but here’s the caveat with all this that salary I just mentioned is for just 11 players and one of them is a first round pick so there’s only 10 of those guys actually on the team you have to feel rer 14 teams um in in situ so in these situations uh you have a cap hold an incomplete roster charge they call it which is equal to what a veteran’s minimum contract is about $2 million that fills up your roster or your your cap sheet basically to 14 players um and you know makes it so you’re you’re in compliance with this rule even if you don’t have these players so functionally while all all of the penalties they have towards the second apron are under the second apron by like about 1.5 million bucks that’s for just a few players uh that’s short a few players I should say so they need to uh fill out their roster and in order to do that with that money they would only be M they would only be um they would be limited to to just minimum contracts and if they fill out to 14 with that salary uh with minimum contracts they’ll be over the second apron for next year and they’ll face all the penalties I just said I hope that wasn’t too convoluted for anybody passion drive and patience that is the formula for winning championships and it is also what keeps your ride or die alive eBay Motors has everything you need to maintain your vehicle and level it up to Peak Performance superchargers roof racks exhaust kits LED headlights and more whether you’re into speed power or style eBay Motors has you covered with over 122 million parts for your number one ride or die you’ll always find exactly what you’re looking for and with eBay’s guaranteed fit your part is guaranteed to fit your ride every time or your money back because with eBay Motors you’re burning rubber not cash with all the parts you need at the prices you want it’s easy to make your car the MVP and bring home huge wins keep your ride or die alive at ebaymotors.com elig ible items only exclusions apply eBay guaranteed fit only available to us customers um but I I think that that is a pretty good synopsis of their situation right now the um the bonus piece was the important part because I think we even talked about it on this show towards the end of the season um for any cap related stuff what I typically reference is Nate Duncan’s spreadsheet so when you go back to that and you see well wait a minute I’m seeing granted there’s no wiggle room but they’re just nearly under it so that’s the explanation of all these things that we’ve explained of it doesn’t matter with with the league it’s basically saying no that number that’s the number if you I know it’s not the Bucks just deciding we’re not going to pay this but if the guy doesn’t hit it I mean great you personally saved some money but your team does not so that’s the explanation on which I think a lot of our listeners and audience had the question of I thought I had heard they had avoided this second apron because Chris Middleton didn’t get those bonuses half of that is true he did not hit those bonuses but it still counts against that apron so that’s that’s the good explanation there um and I think even more important is the last piece that we talked through is not only the Bucks current cap situation and where they are projected to be but that number that you gave of 11 too look you still got to add three more guys to their roster and that’s where things start to become very very interesting when I I’ve talked to a number of people um that I typically do throughout the course of a season and it did seem like early on in the off season the consensus that I heard from people was I don’t know how much change we’re really going to see like this team behind the scenes really believes that it was a weird year we had all these things that we were up against Camille and I we’ve talked about it you guys have talked about it ruh hoop as well with Dame coming over when he did and everything that Dame and Doc Rivers talked about um but that to me I’m not saying this means the Bucs are gonna trade Brook Lopez and Pat conon and Bobby poris but that to me signals the most um reason to get behind I don’t think this is going to be as simple as just essentially run it back and we think year two of Doc and building out that coaching staff is the path that the Bucks are going to be headed down you mention totally agree I totally agree and because yeah you have no choice really it’s I mean look they could just say fine that’s what we’re going to do we’re going to keep this core together we know we got one more run but it’s the realization of everything that we’ve talked about you guys have talked about as well for years now you got to get younger and more athletic on the perimeter you got to add a ball handle you got to add a playmaker you’re doing it with three veterans minimums essentially and maybe a second round pick that you really found some value in and that’s just not sustainable so I I think we all agree that’s kind of where they’re headed is one of the names that you hear of mentioned here is going to be moved so I suppose we’ll transition to that with a conversation here uh a couple of names have started to trickle out within the the last handful of days here earlier on uh on Sunday over the weekend we saw a report of hey the Bucks are looking into to move Pat conon to shed some salary cap we saw late last week I think it was Kevin oconor of the ringer that was the first to have the Bucks want to play a little bit more versatile and they’re looking into shopping uh Brook Lopez I forget who it was but um there was a show I was I was listening to on Friday one of the national shows and it may have been nay Duncan show and they were talking about that exact situation of you know from what I heard the Rockets told Brook Lopez part of it was a hard sell of you know we really want Brook Lopez but part of their deal was look if you sign this deal with the Bucks they are probably going to trade you after a year because you are a tradable contract if it doesn’t work out you’re who they would have to lean on to make any wholesale changes and with us we’re telling you I mean you’re taking the word of Tillman fora but we’re telling you you’re here for two years or however long it is we’re not going to trade you we want you here to help bu build this so that name has come up um not quite as concrete I think it was just kicked around very briefly we even heard Chris Middleton’s name come up in the sense of the Bucks are literally looking at everything so I guess let’s start there with with all three of us we’ll start with you van um of all those names or maybe there’s somebody that I did not list we didn’t mention Bobby poris but anybody else in the roster who do you think is the most likely to not be on the buck next season well I think the most likely player who’s not going to be on the Bucks next season who like we we haven’t talked about is Malik beastley because there was also a report uh from Chris Haynes Chris on Friday that he he’s likely to go he’s going to get offers up to that non-t taxpayer mid level um but that’s beside the point we’re talking about uh players that could be traded I think okay the big three names obviously going into the offseason Brook Lopez Bobby poris Pat conon um I want to give you a few numbers here so if the Bucks wanted to avoid the second apron for next year they’re gonna have to cut about 4.7 million that would just get them to the second apron so at least 4.7 because what I was saying earlier if you know with the the salary you have for the 11 players including the the 23rd pick um the unlikely Ben benefits for Middleton and then veteran minimum contracts to fill out the roster you’re going to be uh over the the second apron by about 4.7 million bucks now um if they want so if they want to to cut that money the only way really to do it is by trading because um all of their contracts with the exception of those uh AJ Green those ones I mentioned AJ Green and Andre Jackson Jr are guaranteed but even if you were to wave them that that would not get you beneath the second apron um so if they want to do that they’re going to have to trade uh and get some guaranteed salary out the door and take back Less in because as I mentioned earlier they cannot um I think I mentioned this maybe I didn’t uh when you’re over the the first apron or when you’re when you’re coming in on the second apron uh you cannot take back more salary yeah than what you send out so um if you’re trading Brooklyn Lopez he makes $23 million next year you can’t take back more than that Pat conton 9.4 can’t take back more than that Bobby Portis 12.6 can’t take back more than that can be multiple players again but it cannot be more than that so if they to get under the apron uh and and gain some some access to like the mid-level exception for example um or just allow themselves to maybe get some some some veterans uh rather than like second round picks if they’re just trying to get right under the second apron and not actually have any room below it um they would need to cut about $5.9 million so almost six we’ll say six million they they can do that in a number of ways um you know they can trade Brook Lopez they can trade Bobby poris they can trade Pat hon but only one of them at a time if they did if they trade one of them and they got under second apron then they could package some more players together then they could add Marjan Bo champ they could add um AJ Green or someone like that but they have to get below they have to make that cost cutting move first um now the report from this morning from Evan cery I think it was talking about Pat conon he he put it as they’re looking to um acquire some a more versatile role player I think is the language you used now I think that that might be a little challenging with conaton particularly he has two years left on his deal essentially he’s got a player option for not this coming year but the following year which is the same assum he’s picking that yeah totally totally and um 9.4 million uh same salary as this season so he’s got like a two-year 18 million contract essentially um that contract I don’t think has positive value right now I think if you wanted to trade that uh for basically anything certainly if you wanted to salary dump it you’re going to have to attach a draft asset to it I would hope not the first round pick I I don’t think it’s nearly quite that uh underwater of a contract but maybe the 33rd pick from this year or maybe um one of the I think there’s only one future second they’re gaining access to uh in 2031 or 2032 in the coming weeks um but to get under that if you can if you can trade conon and not take more than let’s see it’s about uh 3.4 million 3.5 million in return then you you have a lot more flexibility uh to operate within the confines of the second apron this offseason and that includes signing a player with the entire value of the taxpayer midlevel 5.2 million while also being able to have um room for for some vet minimums or rookie minimums if you cut at least 5.9 million so um I think conon that’s maybe the the the easiest route to go in terms of like a basket for a basketball sense because um I think they’re pretty they they have some some prospects on the wing that they’ll want to continue giving minutes to of course I’m a big ajx fan and I like AJ Green too I’d like to see them having more roles next year um if conon is is shipped out it’s probably I mean it’s probably not going to affect the onc court product too much or just team production too much but you’re not likely to get much in return it might just be you’re getting salary relief and you may have to like I said attach a second round pick to it so if you’re looking to then trade Bobby poris or Brook Lopez well easier to send one of those guys out and acquire you know five6 million doar less then you’re you’re giving up and then getting that flexibility I’m talking about um so I think probably Conan’s the most likely guy and we’ve seen the rumors right now uh and I think I mean if it were me I would look to to trade Bobby poris before before Brook Lopez I I I’m a Believer in Brook Lopez I think it’s I think we all are yeah yeah it’s a it’s it’s it’s from an onc Court fit like the it’s going to be very very hard this offseason uh to find like on the free agent Market pretty much impossible to find uh even like a rotation level Center yeah there’s just not much this offseason sure maybe in the trade market but um I would think if they were gonna trade Lopez as they’ve talked about they would look to acquire you know a big man in return um and I’ve there are names I like in that context too so I would sooner trade Bobby poris just because I think I think his role is something that they could fill uh from within to an extent but also they could address uh with some external moves like you know trades we’re talking about but maybe in the free agent Market too they may even be able to get some of that production uh from like a maybe not a a five someone who can play the four and the five but someone who can play the four uh and shoot the three a bit and give you some of that scoring that you’re losing I think they might be able to figure that out if they sent out poris I love BR back galinari are we saying sorry yeah galinari uh I mean he’s he’s about to he’s getting ready to play with uh Team Italy in the in the in the qualifiers so yeah you know maybe he’s a little too busy to to deal with contract negotiations no van I love that you brought up order of operations because framing it in that way of saying like well hey if the Bucks do make this move for example trading that Pat conon somewhere else try to get that salary relief and what they can do after that I think talking about that flexibility is really important for the bucks because I mean we said it earlier on in the show which I think is an important part it’s not necessarily about teams being cheap at this point of trying to get under that second apron but you are so handicapped with how you build out your roster uh that it might not be worth being over that second apron and I think back to what Pat Riley was saying when the Miami Heat got put out the playoffs and he mentioned the fact like you know there were 18 teams that pay luxury tax this season only two of them got past the first round the other six were all at home after the first didn’t even make the playoffs the didn’t even make the playoffs and they they paid more than anybody exactly so it’s like it’s just trying to find a way to be able to have a team where you can put something together that makes sense and with the bugs talking about wanting more flexibility um in their defensive scheme so on and so forth I have to say I agree with you and Justin wholeheartly about how difficult it will be to replace Brook Lopez I understand that he’s you know older 36 years old I understand that the Bucs need to be looking for a center of the future uh but when you think about his fit on court with the Bucs and what he provides with his ability to space the floor at the five position his ability to have the room protection it’s like I don’t know who on the open market can do what Brook Lopez does both things that he does well um even just one of those things really and it’s like I know the bugs could use their first round draft pick to get somebody then the question is do you really trust you know an early 20-some year old guy to Anchor a championship defense like that’s a lot to put on a plate of a young player really early on so Derrick Lively was an real exception to that rule was yeah and now everybody of course wants to find the next Derek Lively because you saw it and you’re like hey if we could find a rookie that can contribute we’d be on point but of course everybody feel the same way as well that’s a very far end of the bell curve outcome for a rookie absolutely Absol looking at the looking at the the open market as you mentioned Camille boy the the list of like centers right now moamba very popular name among bugs fans for years but uh very polarizing name I’ll just say Goga bad um hre Drummond Nick Claxton is someone who’s gonna get probably the full mid-level not in the buck price range then you’ve got Drew Eubanks hartenstein another guyin is just gonna get blown out of the water what he’s paid yeah no way Damen Jones DeAndre Jordan Alex Len Luke cornette you know Mike muscala Mason plumbley Daniel Ty it’s not you’re not going to get I don’t think with any of those guys you could not Cobble together any sort of big man rotation that would get you what you would lose with Brook Lopez and you have to factor in that that’s gonna put Giannis at the five a lot and he’s been you know pretty I would say pretty clear about how he does not want to be doing that long term and uh I don’t want to be the guy to explain that to him like Hey you know we’re trading Brook Lopez we know you love playing with him um and we want you to be the like the full-time starting center right now sound good buddy like I don’t want to I don’t want to have that conversation yeah I don’t think it’d go very well so yeah big men it’s that’s a tough one I do think maybe it’s addressable via the trade market but also tricky I love sports I love them so much I never want them to stop but as the playoffs wind down we get fewer games and the sports aren’t looking like I want them to but FanDuel lets me keep the sports going whenever I want all I have to do is open the app and dream up bets anytime I’m in the mood this summer FanDuel is hooking up all customers with a boost or a bonus daily that’s right there’s something for everyone every day all summer long so head over to fanduel.com lockon and start making the most out of your summer FanDuel official sports betting partner of Major League Baseball have you seen any trays that you like for Brook Lopez I’ve seen a few floated out there like I saw one with the rockets for Stephen Adams and T Easton as a suggestion I saw one reaching out was that my suggestion I I I put that out there like two months ago right after the playoffs Terry e is a guy I really like yeah t E’s the part I like the Stephen Adams fit is a little bit more like I doesn’t seem like it fits perfectly for me I also saw one for Wendell Carter Jr and Lopez to Orlando but are there any other trade options that you do like for Brooke those were the two names I was going to mention um I think with with Adams specifically like he’s coming off a very major knee injury he’s I think 31 um it’s he may have something left in the tank he’s only got one year left on the contract obviously he wouldn’t replace the outside shooting from Lopez but I think he certainly is a elite rebounder and um a good enough rim protector that I think that would be a decent stop G solution and if it got you Terry een who is someone I really like um I think that’d be worth it but he also has some injury concerns he missed most of last season with an injury um I’m glad you brought up wend car Jr because uh he’s someone he’s probably the I would say the closest guy to Middleton or I’m sorry to Lopez out there that you can find on the trademark Market um he’s developed a three-point shot I think he was up around 39% last year uh he’s couple inches shorter than than Lopez I believe he’s listed at 610 but they’re listed about the same weight um he’s I think 610 270 is why I saw I was looking at him earlier uh and he’s he’s young he’s uh I think what 25 maybe um yeah I think that would be a great fit and he’s under a long-term contract uh through well I guess he’s got two years left on it but it’s a declining value contract and you look at Orlando they’re um they’ve got two great forwards who are both best played at the four I would say and um Juan banko who I think is a could be a credible Center at least offensively um and you know you you split that position up between him and Brook Lopez I think it would fit um and Orlando has a lot of cap space this off season too so they could make this trade it would slash um about 12 million almost 12 million from the Bucs budget this offseason um but other names out there these aren’t necessarily well okay these are names for Brook Lopez that I’ve that you just look at when you look at I mean you look at the you can find on basketball reference you can sort every player for the upcoming year by their salary um so it’s it’s kind of easy to do you just find Brook Lopez in the middle there $23 million and you just look at everyone below him those are the guys you can get um of course there are names in there you won’t be able to get like there’s um right underneath him there’s like there’s there’s uh Jaylen Jaden McDaniels I should say from Minnesota um Derek white you’re not gonna be able to get those guys but I think it was Kevin oconor in that ringer article said that the first person I’ve really heard say this but uh they could trade him for Bruce Brown straight up they both have they both make the same $23 million for next year and are expiring that doesn’t save the Bucks any uh room under the doesn’t explain why the Raptors would want to do it I know I would think it would be part of like a biger deal yeah I think it would just be you know Lopez send out somewhere um yeah Brown would be the one coming back another name that you see kind of not really earnestly mentioned in trade rumors that um is I think a decent fit for the bucks kind of like um who was I just just talking about Adams how like you know you don’t have the outside shot but you you have kind of everything else you like in the center uh is Jared Allen who I’m I’m a big fan of personally he’s making $20 million each of the next two seasons uh Cleveland again I think this would be part of a larger trade I don’t think Cleveland has any need or interest for in Brook Lopez but um see I’m glad you brought this one up yeah because I was talking about this with somebody else too um I think the natural inclination is to say well it doesn’t make sense for Cleveland because they’re getting out of Twin Towers right but the way Brooke plays is offensively is much different from Jared Allen that I think you could convince yourself maybe it could work sure it’s a better fit with Moy and Brook lope offensively than it is with Moy and Jared Allen I still MO is kind of like a younger Giannis you know the similar skill sets right I I think the difficulty and I’m with you I really like Jared Allen but I think the challenges would be more for the bucks than the Cavs with that because you would have no two non Shooters it’s tough I’ve had this conversation too I think it’s a little bit less of a big deal to not surround Giannis with all these shooters like you know we’ve been used to in previous years because there’s now this guy named Dame Lillard on the roster who um teams are going to respect a lot more sure yeah when Chris is healthy I think that maybe now with with a healthy Chris and with Lillard on the roster you can get away a little bit more with having Giannis and another non shooter yeah on the floor at the same time as long as you’re surrounding those two with some some marksmen um so yeah I but that’s the tricky thing there’s not a lot of uh guys in this range especially big men who have that shooting ability a couple names I’m going to throw out also um this is this would be again like I’m not saying any of these are like Brook Lopez for this guy straight up no just Brook Lopez is is the outgoing salary from Milwaukee going somewhere maybe going to this team maybe not but this is the and then I’ll talk about the player who’s coming in um big men Zack Collins from s Antonio obviously a lot of injury concerns but um has some skills that you like in that area Isaiah Stewart from the Pistons I the Pistons have beef stew yeah the Pistons have been complete disaster the last few years um it’s gotten just ridiculous with the firing of Monty Williams um so Tran Langdon their GM is coming in right now you don’t know um what kind of uh value he’s gonna place on the guys you already have um Stuart is I like I mean he he’s he’s got a bit of a we’ll just say a little bit of a head on his shoulders uh but he’s young and um he’s also developed a shot a little bit undersized you say for a center but uh certain certainly makes uper with physical strength um other names might be getable again this is kind of in the same category as as Jared Allen Mitchell Robinson um Kelly Ock not a guy I like very much but does you know make some make some sense but then those are just big men there are other guys in this range who I think you know if this was if this was who you’re getting back and sending out Brook Lopez you can you might be excited about it or at least you could live with it um especially if maybe you got something else with him uh Kellin Johnson from the Spurs Colin ston from the Jazz Harrison Barnes um bogdon bogdanovich would be which be hilarious from the Hawks um Carris Levert um Dorian finny Smith Luke Canard and then uh little bit lower uh Cole Anthony and a guy I really like from the Wizards Denny AIA yeah these are all players who I think would fit in well with the Bucks who are just in between the salaries of Brook Lopez and Bobby poris I think um Denny AIA not to get too sidetracked seems like he’s goingon to be the next Derek white type of teams recognizing the development that they saw last year especially and let’s go get him um I like a lot of those names that you brought up I think the other one that you could really talk yourself into if this makes a lot of sense for uh the other team and it would shave some money for the bucks granted you’d be Tak years it there’s just no way possible to the trade is if you did a big man swap with the Phoenix Suns but they’re in an even worse spot than the Bucks are that there is no way possible for them to send out I think it’s 18 or so million that Yousef nkic is making and I think there’s two additional years on that deal just one I’ve got it right here but either way an additional year um so the Suns would be taking on more money they would have to Cobble together which is impossible that’s not they can’t do that they’re also over the second apron um they’re Way Beyond where the Bucks are they’re even in worse shape than the bucks um you know you mentioned Camille earlier how uh filling out player you you had talked about um the the heat but filling out your roster with minimum guys like the Bucks did it a little bit last year they they signed I guess it was just um Robin Lopez Malik Beasley and thanasis you can count that but the the the Suns had to sign what like six guys to minimum deals and that just did not produce uh a quality team with enough enough depth to make it in the playoffs so it’s yeah like they’re in a really bad Place Phoenix and the other challenge to it which is I mean the Bucs I think we they’d be feeling it a lot more if it weren’t for what comes along with the second apron is you know where you look at the Bucks cap situation and look at the the contracts that have been doled out um I know others have talked about it but I think as we get into this off season it really shines a light and it’s only going to get worse that the mid class is if it’s not dead it is dying in the NBA that’s where all these teams are you look at the Bucks that have put together the Dame and Giannis contract you look at the spot that the Celtics are going to be in you are seeing fewer and fewer of these deals that are you know where the cap is headed at this point even the 15 to20 million contract range but in the past when we would think like at 9 to 15 million that’s your midpoint there’s fewer and fewer of those we’re seeing the max type deals and then rookie scale contracts and Veterans minimums filling out rosters it’s going like this yep the the the upper class and the lower class the there’s a there’s a parallel to be made to society there but I won’t touch [Laughter] that but yeah you’re quite right I noticed that last offseason this middle class of salaries is yeah and it’s it’s only getting worse the other interesting team I just don’t know what I mean you know in terms of basketball what the fit is for the bucks to look for and in terms of contracts it makes sense I just don’t know what that team would do is we’ve heard this this team name kicked around the New Orleans Pelicans and you can say hey get a rim protector get a guy that can play five out alongside Zion and everyone else that fit makes sense for the Pelicans you look look at the pel’s roster there’s a lot of names that make sense for the bucks I would be stunned as much as Bucks fans want it and I would love it too if the Pelican said all right you give us Brook Lopez and we’ll give you herb Jones end of deal like The Bu assets there like a lot of assets that they don’t have to get herb Jones over here that’s not gonna happen I do think there are other names though that like would would work Larry Nance Jr that’s that’s a guy who comes in you know under Bobby pse’s basically yeah yeah but a quality player um I think yeah he’s a free agent um but nii Marshall um pretty good for them in the playoffs yeah he’s probably I I was reading the other day someone who’s gonna be more towards that 5.2 million mid level um which maybe the Bucks could get there are a few guys out there who might fit with the bucks if they can open up that cat room but yeah um I don’t think herb Jones I I it’s it’s a real pie in the sky right now um Brook Lopez for him straight up I I don’t think that is something David Griffin will do all right that’ll do it for part one of this conversation with Van but we got a lot more to get into we spoke for quite a bit so part two comes your way on tomorrow’s show we get into a lot more in the player discussion other names that are out there what we could realistically see happen not just this week but into the offseason that convers ation continues on part two of part two of the offseason primer here with a van from Brew hoop look for that on your feed tomorrow morning for Van Camille I’m Justin we’ll talk to you once again tomorrow un locked on bucks

Justin and Camille are joined by Van Fayaz of BrewHoop.com to dig into the offseason. In part one we talk all things second apron. Why are the Bucks in the second apron, what does that mean for their offseason and how can they get out of it this summer? With that we take a look at the most likely types of moves the Bucks can make when the new league year begins in just over a week.

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