Reacting to First Week of NBA Free Agency – Cleveland Cavaliers, Cavs News

Reacting to First Week of NBA Free Agency – Cleveland Cavaliers, Cavs News

this is the moment we’ve all been waiting for for the thousands independants and the millions watching around the [Applause] world let’s get ready [Applause] [Music] for Welcome to the junkyard pod today we are going to be recapping the first few days of NBA free agency getting Jackson’s thoughts on the D of the Mitchell extension how we feel about the Cavs being on inactive up to this point and if there are any available free agents who are still worth looking at before we get started let me say if you enjoy the junkyard pod please consider hitting subscribe and dropping a like goes long way to help the channel and we do appreciate the support but getting into today’s episode let me start here Jackson what are your overall thoughts on the offseason so far not just the Cavs but the NBA as a whole have any uh deals or transactions stood out to you think the Paul George want deal is the one that does stand out to you because it feels like that puts the Sixers above the Cavs and I’m not sure if you know the Sixers are good with embiid obviously in the regular season but are they a team that you would consider above them Pro I kind of consider them in the same tier Paul George I think takes them above where the Cavs are and that’s meaningful because you know the Cavs were going to talk about this later but one of the goals is to you know get to the finals you know like come out of the Eastern Conference and if there’s more teams in the way then you either need more breaks to go your way or you need this team to massively improve which you know it just becomes harder when there’s more good teams there yeah and that I I’m saving a question for you that I’m gonna ask in a few moments here but the Paul George move on paper definitely makes Billy a very strong Contender of course indeed his health long-term concern Paul George isn’t exactly the mo the easiest guy to sell yourself on when it comes to longevity and being healthy um but they are again on paper a very tough team so that’s something to watch out for um I will say I think it’s one move that stood out to me I think it’s incredible that Chris Paul at this late stage in his career is going to forgo ring chasing and help a young Superstar unlock his potential and Jetty Osman I really think Jetty could take that mvp leap that we’ve been expecting from him and I hope I hope Victor Rama understands that CP3 is there to help unlock Jetty that’s that’s what’s really important about this whole thing but to get us back on track I will say that even like the kcp move for the magic is Big yeah because if we were you know like the Cavs didn’t win that series very handedly and yeah you know you run it back with kcp there and he hits a couple of the shots that their guards and their wings weren’t able to hit on the perimeter it’ss a little spooky yeah the Cs were down by 1 million in game seven and then they were able to come back because the magic decided to go one for 1 million from three uh to kind of close out that game if you have a proven shooter who’s not going to be scared of a game seven first round because hey I’ve won a championship before I’ve won two championships before you know like I’ve been in these moments it’s a very different situation and it’s out of position it also allows them to be bigger or to stay bigger with actual like you know you’re taking Gary Harris off the floor and you’re putting kcp on like that’s a really big lineup that’s really versatile and I think that you know like I think people on the outside the national media are going to probably go into the season thinking that the magic are better than the Cavs and I don’t know if I really disagree with them so that’s where it’s like well at least as things currently stand so that’s where when we’re talking about the Cavs not doing anything we can give all these explanations about well it’s it’s tough you know these mid-level guys suck you don’t have anything to trade but it’s also well what’s the point of not being able to trade a first round draft pick till 2031 if the magic signing kcp just vaults them over you and there’s no counter move that you can do so that’s where you know that’s where I think some of the unees is very warranted and I definitely hear those concerns and I’m going to transition to a question in one moment but just to round out our general free agency reactions I would say other than the Paul George move uh the two moves of the summer so far this isn’t free agency but the maau bridges trade I think uh was pretty big obviously New York jumps probably ahead of Cleveland some people may already had them ahead of Cleveland uh and then Isaiah hardenstein going to OKC as pretty good move I think he got a pretty hefty deal but they really needed a center last year and I think his passing is fun in that system I’m a big fan of that move but now the question that I want to ask with all the moves that have been made including the trades Has any team dethroned Boston as the favorit to repeat has the bar been raised well first off I want to say that the Boston Celtics do in fact suck so of course not you’re a good person to ask this question um I would say I don’t know if these moves are how you beat the Celtics like I don’t know if you’re ever going to out wi the Celtics in the sense of like oh yeah well we have Mel Bridges like like we see your Jaylen Brown we we we have Mel Bridges and it’s like is that really how you’re going to win I’m not really convinced but at the same time um teams are closer and I think one of the things that we didn’t see in the Eastern Conference playoffs for a wide variety of reasons is we never really saw a team push them maybe Donovan Mitchell stays healthy the Cavs get one more game then you’re kind of seeing that some so I could see a healthy Knicks team push them because I think the Knicks will be better next year than they were this previous year and I think the Knicks would have provided a good matchup anyways so you know I I think it’s possible that teams have gotten closer but I don’t know if they’ve really they’ve really closed the Gap cuz I because I think to kind of close the gap against the Celtics you got to be able to beat them inside like I don’t think you’re going to three-point your way like you’re not going to be a better version of the Celtics unless you’re the Thunder who they seem to be kind of building the same exact team so I don’t know that wasn’t really a great answer no I get saying because I don’t I don’t think any team has put themselves Head and Shoulders above the Celtics but they have certainly moved into a position where maybe they’ll be on the same level Billy again on paper is fantastic but again you won’t catch me buying into the health of him beat and Paul George New York is very good and they now have a roster where it would be a battle of the Wings I think Boston’s wings are better but they’re certainly the one team in the Eastern Conference at least that has the wings and the the ideal matchups to go toe-to-toe with them I would still pick the Celtics to win that series but something we’ll have to see develop I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t uh but other than that you look across the league Denver got worse in my opinion the Clippers are off the board uh the Lakers were never really on the board to begin with Minnesota is interesting Dallas OKC could definitely be a favorite I think I think it’s worth talking about the Bucks too because it’s really easy to forget about them very yeah I would not forget about Giannis yeah he’s he’s still really good I think the Bucks have a lot of issues and and you know like the the Giannis Lillard pering needs to be an A+ for it all to work and just being okay isn’t isn’t going to do it so I don’t really have faith in Doc Rivers as being the guy who cracks the code but you know you can’t discount a team that has an MVP caliber player and a you know an All-Star Cal caliber point guard yeah I I think the last two playoffs look very different if be honest is healthy um I still think fully healthy he could be the best player in the NBA still I think he has a legit case for that and uh look I I heard apparently Doc Rivers has said that Damen Lillard was out of shape last year so maybe he manages to get back in shape and they compete they certainly wouldn’t be my favorite to win the East but they’re they’re well Bill Simmons said that doc River said that so we’re playing telephone at this point who knows but I I mean they are they are boys but that that is that’s insane it’s a bad thing for a coach to say didn’t but it’s not river thing to say well they Pro I mean probably because Damen L was the only guy who could dribble the ball like for that whole first round series like that like that may be it yeah so I don’t I don’t know maybe maybe they need like a triathlon Runner out there running the point but you know anyways yeah rounding out the point here I I guess what I would say is that the competition in the East might have thickened there’s more teams that pose serious threats I mean look at the Eastern Conference and Orlando Indiana J made to the Conference Finals like there’s no easy path anymore but I do think the bar to clear is relatively the same if that makes sense uh and so that’s where the Cavs kind of find themselves like hey maybe these other teams have le frogged you arguably but where you need to go is the same destination if that makes sense you need to be Boston that was the bar last year it will be the bar next year uh even if New York ends up being the team that makes it out of the East I still think that bar is relatively at the same point yeah yeah that all makes sense and you could talk yourself into the Cavs having a better chance if Mitchell’s healthy but it’s there’s a lot you know there’s there’s a lot of things that there’s a lot of areas that the Cav need to improve because for them to beat the Celtics like this past go around even without porzingis which was if they were going to beat the Celtics it was because they didn’t have porzingis and they needed so many things to go their way and I think it’s kind of just because you were relying so much on Max stru on Caris SL on Dean Wade like you can’t rely that heavily on probably like not to say that any of those guys are bad but I think the Cavs just rely way too much on them for like good teams can’t do that unless they have like the best player in the league and they do not have that I agree entirely especially when it comes to Max Shu he is a guy who I will be defending all summer because I think he’s a very helpful player the Cavs are just relying on him far too much uh now before we talk about the inactivity of the Cavs so far and where they need to improve I do want to give you a chance to quickly talk about the Donovan Mitchell extension now I did a quick video with my instant reaction but we want to get your thoughts on this how are you feeling were you surprised if we could go back in time to December 2023 I told you Mitchell would sign the extension would you have believed it um maybe just I probably would have believed it more than other people and it’s because I feel like you know this is my first year covering the team I am not plugged in at all I am I am plugged out so you know like nobody tells me anything but just observing Donovan Mitchell he seemed especially during that time he seemed the most bought in out of anybody else on the team he would take losses more personally than I think anybody else would and it just felt like he was really invested in the process and that just continued throughout the whole year so I always thought that he was G to stay just based on that but I get that you know I’m not actually like a source or anything like that so you know what I thought doesn’t really matter too much but I I’m not surprised and then obviously this whole summer there hasn’t been any rumors about him going and as we were just kind of talking about this free agency has sucked so if there was any sprinkle of a rumor or anything like that or any doubt whatsoever I think that the media would have loved to have run with it and they didn’t so that was just kind of like it was just you know Mark Stein for like 3 months straight like yeah he’s going to sign a he’s going to sign a an extension it’s going to be a fouryear extension it’s going to be a threeyear extension you know it was just kind of like it just kind of came down to the details so I’m not I’m not surprised but this is a huge deal for the Cavs they mortgage their entire future and for him to not be on the team when that first pick to the Jazz conveyed would have been very tough it would have been very bad so like this was the a bare minimum that they needed to do and this basically buys them two more years so when you made the trade you’re like we have two years to convince Donan Mitchell to stay you basically just got two more years to convince him to stay longer which you know like so how do you do that we’ve talked about how tough it is to improve this team with how you know the new CBA they don’t have any draft picks to trade nobody like you’re not like oh let’s trade we’ve talked about this the whole time we’ve been doing this pot yeah let’s trade Caris LeVert for Caris LeVert but good like that’s just not a trade that’s ever going to happen so you know like Kobe needs to figure out a way to do that and it’s like you know is Tyson is he the guy who’s gonna you know is he like a home run a while but right but like he’s somebody who like if the C’s going to take the next step it’s like internal Improvement it’s trading one of the core four or it’s like you just hit a home run like immani Bates just flips a switch which like we don’t think is going to happen at least not in way some people do the YouTube comments will be on you Jackson right well they’re already on me like like Craig Porter Jr you know like Craig like you know Craig Porter J’s not gonna turn into you know Chris Paul Jr um that was a good one um that was a good one look at you um so like you know they need toit hit a home run essentially or you know like there’s limited paths for them to improve and that’s where I would start to get a little concerned because you know we’ve seen a pattern first round second round well I don’t think Mitchell’s going to be like okay if they go first round second round again I don’t know if he’s like that won’t hit the same right so where do you like where does the next step come I think that’s very important but I also don’t want to lose sight of how cool it is that an that an all NBA player who was not drafted by the Cavs wants to stay in Cleveland he never he never said you know like when he was traded he never said I want to go to the Cavs like that wasn’t any of the rumors out there the Cavs made a bet and you know they hit on the BET and Mitchell has been phenomenal Mitchell if he stays throughout the rest like you know if he stays for four more years he has a chance of being pretty high up there on a lot of the alltime lists for the Cavs especially if he keeps staying so you know like this is a huge deal the Cavs haven’t had many periods of sustained relevancy you know not counting LeBron you know you’re looking at 90s and LeBron it’s basically it right like you know the late 80s so you’re not you know like this isn’t a franchise that has had sustained success and you know we’ll complain about whether or not the Cavs can ever get over the hump but Mitchell being on the team allows you to have a second round team which is not something that the cats have been used to throughout the entirety of their franchise excluding LeBron so that’s a big deal you know like he you know anytime you look at the stats like he’s one of three Cavaliers to make the first or second all NBA team you know he’s one of two Cavaliers to be named player of the mon you know he could be you know like it’s just you know like like this isn’t a franchise that has had a lot of star power or at least a lot of star power that has been able to stay healthy for a long period of time you know like Brad dhy he was really good but you know he kind of flamed out because of injuries and stuff so you know same thing can be said about like Austin Carr so it’s just it’s a huge deal to say like you know 10 15 20 years from now when you’re looking back at the Cavs you’ll be saying like man that Donovan Mitchell guy was good and you know we’re kind of doing that right now sometimes when we talk about Kyrie because enough time has passed where yeah he was really good but it was more so like well you just kind of had to see it and the playoffs were really good it wasn’t like yeah this is a top 10 guy in the league this is an all NBA caliber player it was more so I think the kids call that aura Kye AA about him yeah yeah he did he and he kind of still does but it’s it’s it’s just complicated but anyways Mor of the story is like he if he save throughout this contract he will go down as one of the best players in franchise history and that’s really cool so like it’s a big deal from that standpoint yeah I agree everything you just said uh listen I’ve already taken my Victory lap so I won’t Rebel in it too much but I knew I was right all along and you know what we can we can get back talking basketball rather than debunking these narratives which by the way just for the record I was never saying hey Donan Mitchell’s 100% saying in Cleveland I was always pushing back on the idea that he is checked out and ready to Le there was no tangible reason for us to think that he was that he didn’t like being in Cleveland that he already had one foot out the door as you said he was the most committed player on the team through the whole season and so I also want to say hey if two years from now or even next season Mitchell demands a trade then okay sure but we’re not we’re not moving the goal post here I never said he would retire in Cleveland I just pushed back against the silly idea that he was desperate to get out there was never a claim based in reality and all the people who push that idea are dumb and wrong and okay that’s the end of my rant yeah and I think Donovan’s also somebody who really likes to be liked and yeah I think Cleveland is is a city who wants to like somebody especially if they like show just a little bit of like you know give them just a little bit and that’s not you know like kind of kind of to go back to Kyrie like I don’t know like you know Kyrie was loved but I don’t know if he wanted to be loved or really sought it out the same way that like ad Donovan Mitchell does so and he didn’t like Pander to the home to the home crowd the way that Donovan does and I think that kind of like that’s a big part of it and it’s like you know I think Donovan would like to be loved by the New York City you know by the Knicks crowd but it’s not like a guarantee that you know wherever you go you’re going to be loved you know is LeBron James loved in La it doesn’t seem like it you know like it’s just it’s it’s sometimes hard so anyways I think that kind of also played a part in it too so I want to you know point that out yeah I mean realistically I don’t think what I’m about to say might be crazy but I don’t think it’s that crazy if Donovan Mitchell finishes this career in Cleveland and even if they never win a championship if he’s just really good for a long time he could end up getting a statue with LeBron James one day so like that’s that’s where we are with the Cav franchise some people might think that’s insane Donan Mitch is gonna get a statue well he if he saves the rest of his career and they go to the Conference Finals or even make it to a finals he’s probably the second best player in franchise history at that point now I’m not getting ahead of myself knock on wood that all that stuff happens but it’s just kind of that’s how big this extension was at least as a starting point yeah and a lot of the good players in the league tend to go to like one or two teams and historically the Cavs aren’t aren’t one of the two teams that they go to that’s why when you look up in the rafters you’re not you’re not actually seeing like a lot of great names like no shots at anybody but you know like is Larry Nance getting is is Larry Nance getting his jersey retired by somebody else you know like I love jras sowz is he getting his jersey retired by anybody else like and and the thing is I’m fine I’m fine with that because I think it’s cool to celebrate the people who provided memories so it’s like it’s not a shot at like yeah like you shouldn’t have retired Larry Dan Jersey and that’s why I think it’s stupid like oh you guys can’t retire the whole 2016 team’s Jersey because it’s like they you know like how good is J.R Smith and it’s like dude just retire Tristan Thompson like retire the whole team because that’s I want like if you’re a fan you want to go in like look up and you’re like dude Tristan Thompson man do you remember some of those playoffs against the Celtics he just killed them he killed the death lineup in the 2016 finals you know like they like those Inspire memories and stuff and I think that’s okay and that’s good but at the same time like Larry Nance wouldn’t have a special place and like if you’re a Celtics fan Like Larry Nance is probably not somebody that you’re gon to remember and that’s you know that’s just kind of the difference between the Cavs and you know some other more stored franchises and that’s okay yeah and one day you’ll be able to look up and see three n jerseys hanging up there as we all know anyways moving into our next topic uh so as we said at the top the Cavs are one of the few teams who have yet to make a move unless something happens as we are recording uh Jackson you already hit on this a little bit but are you annoyed with their inactivity do you think they are squandering opportunities specifically in free agency I’m not referring to any potential trades we can get to that another episode what are your thoughts should the Cs have signed someone by now um it’s hard to like there hasn’t been a name that’s popped up on my phone with the w notification that I said man like like the Cavs should have got that guy so from that standpoint it’s like no I’m not really mad with it inactivity but I you would like to at least see something because there are so limited there’s such a limited amount of ways to improve this team and they currently have the mid-level exception they’re likely not going to have the mid-level exception next year or at least not the full 12 million mid-level exception so you would like to see them do something to bring in somebody who can give you like real minutes and I know there’s like well none of these guys are any good well check this out like Marcus Morris uh was playing came off the couch yeah and was playing heavy playoff minutes and you can say well yeah it’s cuz everybody like got injured on a team and it’s like true but also the guy that they got in free agency last year with their mid-level exception wasn’t playable so he was playing over him and it’s like this isn’t to say like oh like Morris was good you know like he wasn’t good like that’s the thing it’s just he was final game of the season he was on a heater he play out of his mind that game that was crazy crazy it was great yeah but so like the bar to clear isn’t that hot oh yeah it’s not even elevated you just you step right over it there there’s a glaring hole on this roster who anybody who’s six foot seven and can shoot above 35% would fill dribble immediately or dribble yeah like we like we just got the notification before he came on that torian Prince got signed by the Bucks and it’s like instantly been in the eight-man rotation for sure like torian Prince isn’t and it’s tan Prince like yeah I don’t think he’s not making him a contender like I think we talked about this like tan Prince is a better stats guy than he has a player guy but you know I think there would be a real argument that Toran Prince should start over Max stru just because of his just because of size yeah yeah his size be better off the bench too I think it makes team better andu better yeah and well and maxu is more naturally a two he probably shouldn’t be like starting the game running around guarding you know Jason Tatum so yeah like that’s that’s where it’s like you know I didn’t see torian prince’s name show up on my phone and like man like Cav should have gotten him he’s so good but it’s more like yeah he could have helped you know he would have been better than anybody else he can play a little bit of four so it’s like yeah they just need options and they don’t you know like they need somebody and as we’re going to go through later on in this list some of these guys suck I’ve talked myself into some of them so we we will get to that a little bit later uh but yeah I mean listen there there are players who have been signed who I wish they could have gotten overall this free agency class it’s nothing to lose sleep over with that said as long like it’ll be inexcusable if they walk away empty handed in my opinion they need to get something here just because as you mentioned you probably won’t have the mle next year now who knows I things Chang the NBA uh but none of the guys that you missed on right now would have moved the needle uh but I do think striking out alog together would be really bad they need to bolster The Supporting Cast one way or another and this is your best shot at doing it without a trade it’s one of the things where you want to hit like singles and doubles with your mid-level exception you’re not going to hit a home run with it so you need to like get guys who help because you know some of the framing like you know Max dreu is going to solve all these problems was wrong at the time and looks really stupid when you look back like a year later because it’s like yeah Max Ru is good he’s not you know like he’s not Mel Bridges you know and like that’s it feels like some like that’s kind of how it was framed but like you’re not going to be on like there’s no mid-level signing that’s going to get you onto the Celtics level or like the Vault you above some of the other teams that we mentioned but you need a bigger margin of air and right now the Cs don’t have a big margin of air because it’s like you know you don’t really have a whole lot of useful tools um I think one other thing that I want to mention as far as this summer goes just a general statement on the state of the NBA I think we have to adjust our expectations a little bit and this goes in what you were saying uh fewer teams are selling than really ever before usually every summer and in the trade deadline you have all these teams who are interested in selling their assets for draft capital or to facilitate a rebuild but right now we have a bunch of teams who feel like they are one or two moves away from actually competing for a title or even just like a lucky break away from making a Conference Finals run think of Indiana last year and so add that with the lack of incentive for teams to tank now uh because of the flattened Lottery odds and the fact that teams aren’t as interested in trading their assets you don’t have as many options out there it’s a different landscape and that’s not even mentioning the second apron in the new CPA I will I will push back on that because you can get playable players you know like Portland just got Denny Denny adid Avida I can’t say it Denny ABIA Denia AIA there we go um like they just traded for Denny and I think Denny would be a perfect fit on this team they didn’t give up a ton but they gave up draft capital and what do they like like what can the Cavs not trade draft Capital so that’s where it’s like where the little moves that could really help you’re not going to be able to make because Washington is never GNA say oh yeah we’ll take care well okay Washington might be able to say might say yes cuz they’re crazy but like most teams most teams aren’t going to be like oh you’re trading me Caris here’s Denny he’s actually a better fit and a better player you know like teams just aren’t going to do that so that’s where the Cavs like it’s tough because I think like free agency is a little weirder but there are Avenues to improve the team it’s just the Cavs don’t have like access to those Avenues yeah like I think of the cam Johnson rumors is Brooklyn if they’re facilitating a rebuild they’re going to trade cam Johnson do they want what you are they getting out of Caris LT and George KN I mean it just they want draft Capital so again you have to keep in mind Cavs fans and really just NBA fans in general this is not exclusive to Cav fans you are not the only team bidding on these players I am sure well I would hope that if Brooklyn called the Kobe Alman and said we’ll give you Cam Johnson for Carris Levert I would hope Kobe Alman would accept that or at least strongly consider it but I don’t think Brooklyn is I I think Brooklyn will get a better package than Caris l right and that’s and that’s kind of the whole thing where it’s really tough to improve this team and the only way to really improve this team is to trade Jared Allen or and that’s that’s what brings to the question are you improving this team or are you just like is it just a lateral move and this is a question that I want to ask you I hope I hope we’re late enough in into the Pod so the commenters don’t yell at me about this because you never know they find one thing that’s really funny I I do want to say like people on Twitter are always like like I seen like cast fans are way too high on Brandon Ingram on Twitter from like eight different people and I’m like every time I say something positive about Brandon Ingram I never get like a Jackson you’re so right like handshake Emoji it’s always Jackson you’re the dumbest person alive so I don’t see that but if you were going to like the only Avenue you have to make a trade is Jared Allen essentially because I don’t think you’re trading Darius Garland and it would be dumb to trade Darius scarland like teams don’t want point guards right now there’s a lot of you know if you like if you could make a Allen and lever for Brandon Ingram move I think you would do it and this is kind of why what is the best version of the score 4 next year in your mind like what is their absolute ceiling you mean like how far do they go in the playoffs or are you asking what’s like what’s their best what’s their best ceiling if you keep this score forth together next year just for next year I would say I’ll start this way I would say their goal should be the Conference Finals I think they should absolutely plan on making it to the Conference Finals um I would be slightly disappointed if they didn’t now there’s way too many factors for me to like put that in stone I just you’re I know is I don’t think their ceiling necessarily changes with Ingram in place but I will say to what you’re you’re mentioning Allen for Ingram is more reasonable to me that like the Garland for Ingram Ingram swap was never very interesting to me if it’s Allen for Ingram you could talk me into it I’m still hesitant but you could definitely talk me into that raising their ceiling more than the Garland swap was so so I think this current team ceiling if it if everything hits perfectly I think they could make the Conference Finals but I don’t think they could make the finals yeah just CU I don’t you know break well right like if they made it to the Conference Finals and then some and then like three people got injured you know in the series from the other team then it’s like okay but you know what I mean it’s like I don’t I think that’s kind of their ceiling and I think they’d be good to hit that ceiling I think this team’s floor is a first round exit you know like I don’t think I think things would have to go very bad for them not to hit that floor and if you put Ingram in there and obviously you got to retool the roster to get you know not Tristan Thompson as your backup center and you would you would need to get another power forward somewhere but if you if you got that I think that if everything lined up you have a better chance of beating the Celtics this next year and I think that’s reason enough because as even though Don send that extension the clock will be ticking we need like you need to make progress you can’t be a we lost in a seven game first round series like if that if that happened you’re like the whole cycle is going to start all back over and I know everyone’s going to talk about like the cap constraints and stuff like that but what you need to be worried about is getting Donovan Mitchell to believe in this team going forward forward in the future of this team so next year really matters in the year after that and if Ingram gives you a better chance to do that then I think you make that move and then when we’re looking three years down the road it’s likely that Allen and Levert if they were both still on the cast would be making the same amount of money as Ingram at that point in time and if that’s the case then any cap constraint shouldn’t be the reason why you don’t make the move because you’re going to get there it’s just two years down the road so that all considered that’s why I think you do it even if it just bumps up your ceiling just a little bit because that’s what you need like you need the ceiling to be bumped up and it’s not going to lower the floor like there’s no situation where the Brandon Ingram thing really doesn’t work out and this team misses the playoffs like that’s not gonna happen yeah that that won’t happen yeah right I agree that’s that’s how about you finish that’s where I’m at with this where if there’s even a chance of him putting you up higher I think it’s worth it and what’s baked into that and I think that’s really important is it forces Moy to develop and we always say Moy is the key like if Moy becomes like if Moy became a top 15 player Everything Changes the Cavs can you know make the finals with this core Etc but what’s the best way for him to do that is the best way for him to do that playing power forward and splitting his time with Center cuz you know he basically split his time 50/50 this year 50% with Allen 50% without Allen like would it be better just to do 100% Center would that make him a better player and if the answer is yes then you got to do that because that’s what’s going to raise your ceiling more than anything so that’s I I think everything that you said is fair I agree the clock is definitely ticking even Mitchell signed that extension I understand the urgency 100% there you’re not wrong um I have a slightly different take and just that I agree the floor doesn’t change I don’t think the ceiling like I don’t think Brandon Ingram is a player who was going to push shoes over the top and so for me I would be more comfortable the Allen for Ingram swap is something I could get talked into but for me right now I would be more comfortable waiting until maybe the trade deadline or even next summer someone who legitimately could push you over the top becomes available on the trade block now I would have to look at who you know what situation could potentially pan out but I just don’t think Ingram is a guy that you like you don’t need to go get a Brandon Ingram right now I think you could wait run it back with this core if something emerges at the deadline or next summer since you have Mitchell’s extension you have breathing room to do that if Mitchell had said hey we need to make changes right now or I’m not extending then yeah Jared Allen welcome to New Orleans but right now I would operate with a little bit of patience but again you’re not wrong I do I understand the urgency I and I think that if if your like if you look at everything and your conclusion is it doesn’t move the needle up high enough then I don’t think you make the trade but one thing that’s really important to consider is that we were just talking about you know teams are like nobody wants you know like you’re bidding against other teams during this whole process and you know there’s not a lot of teams that want to give up a good wing for Jared Allen like if the Cavs called the Nets and said we’ll give you Jared Allen for cam Johnson they’d probably say yes but in reality cam Johnson’s nowhere near the caliber player that Jared en that like that Allen is so that’s where it’s really tough where you you know like it’s really hard to find the hyp the it’s really hard to find a situation where somebody is skilled is as skilled as Jared Allen is but on the wing and if that player became available they would accept them like would the Raptors have said yes we’d rather take Jared Allen in a ogj and aobi trade I don’t think they do and I think I think Jared Allen’s Still A Step Above OG and anobi but you could talk yourself into it because OJ and cuz he would have been such a good fit all those things so that’s where it’s just really really tough and it’s like Brandon Ingram is really good but there’s very obvious flaws in his game and there’s reasons why you know teams are kind of staying away from him and he’s not a safe bet not in any way but he is the most skilled player I think that you could ever get with Jared Allen and if the BET hits and he does click with his team and that’s a lot of FS so it’s not like it’s a sure thing it’s a risk either way it’s a risk right it’s it would be a huge risk but you can see it paying off like the ringer has him as the 35th best player in the league and he’s not the 3 fifth best fit in the league you know like that’s for sure because yeah Mel Mel Bridges was ranked the 50th best player obviously this is just a stupid list but it just kind of illustrates that fit is so important with how we perceive guys and the fit with their current teams also influences how we perceive their fit with their potential next team and it’s like I know Ingram didn’t work when he was next to LeBron but he was about 20 21 years old Ingram didn’t fit with Zion but probably not a good team for him to ever showcase his skills or at least to sorry it it allowed him to Showcase his skills but it didn’t put him in a position that he would need to be in you know like he’s the primarily he’s he’s the primary ball ball handler he’s the really only scorer like CJ McCollum is not Portland C.J McCollum anymore so it’s just you know like you have to try to see things differently I guess like there like there is a path there that’s all that I’m saying I see the path I want I want to be clear because I have been very anti- Ingram compared to well it’s it’s funny that you brought it up too because I did see the tweets today have like C fans are higher on Ingram than most other teams that I don’t I don’t know I I don’t know I don’t think anybody’s high on very high on no I think there’s both there’s both sides there’s some people who are really high on him there’s some people who absolutely despise him I think people would probably lump me into that ladder one but I really not I see the path where Ingram he he plays the wing he’s a perfect fit in that regard not well you know I will push back a little bit Perfect Fit is a little bit too far because he doesn’t have he he’s tall but he doesn’t have size if that makes sense like hypothetical that I threw out there is like are you better equipped to defend Boston with Brandon Ingram because he’s a wing or would it be better if you had a Jared Allen and I think I think where it would get better is you have multiple play makers on the court multiple guys who can attack off the dribble in a spaced out court and that’s where you get Evan Mobley attacking porzingis or attacking Horford one-on-one in like a five out situation that’s where everybody I think becomes a lot better and people are going to say well I I don’t know if you know this but Isaac aor better from three well I don’t know if you know this but Brandon Ingram’s like 900 times better than Isaac aoro and yes he’s not a catch and shoot three-point guy it’s stupid in year seven or eight to be like well maybe he can become Mel Bridges because if he was going to become Mel Bridges he would have became Mel Bridges but you can refine his skill set he has he’s so much more skilled than Bridges he’s one of like he’s a really good ball handler he would be he would be close to Garland in the best playmaker on the team I think and I don’t you he’s really good in that department and he’s really good at manipulating pick and rolls he’s really good at feeding bigs and it’s like man need that because you know who’s not good at doing those things Donovan Mitchell and he you know so it’s like well he has Mitchell has grown a lot as a he’s grown but but he Ingram’s better so it’s just like there’s ways where it can fit even if it’s not the same as like oh this is a this is like a three and D guy he’s going to stand in the corner and hit 45% from three from there and everything clicks so that’s where I’m saying if you think that he at all bumps up your ceiling it’s not a risk in my mind that’s basically what I would say that that’s what it comes down to how much do you think Brandon Ingram raises the ceiling I think there’s a case where both sides of it you seem to think he raised the ceiling a little higher than I do and that’s like I said I don’t think either one of us is wrong I think a lot of times in the NBA space Just Sports in general people talk so declarative like it depends man I don’t know I I don’t know how Brandon Ingram would fit in Cleveland maybe it would work maybe they went Championship next season and Brandon Ingram is like what they were missing uh I personally am a little lower on him but I understand why if you believe in that you would take that Gamble and there’s a reason why you should be lower and I said if like 500 times when talking about about Brandon Ingram but also if this current core of the Cavs you know takes it to the next level that’s a lot of ifs involved too if Evan Moy develops as a three-point shooter if Jared Allen does you you know it becomes better handling the ball you know like there’s a lot of other ifs that it’s not like it’s not like what the cats currently have is a sure thing so that’s where I think that it’s worth it because he would be more of a ceiling razor as opposed to like a floor razor so you know like you could yeah so it’s It’s just tough because guys who are 68 69 don’t really come available very often and when they do every team wants them because you know you can’t have enough win wins you literally cannot have enough wins it’s true and it is to that point this is one of the rare times where a 6869 forward is available and his asking price isn’t that high so as I’m someone who might be more patient and waiting for another option but you might not get a cheaper option if you’re gonna buy low on someone and hope that you can you know get the most out of them this is a pretty good option it’s tough also with Allen because he has two years left on his deal next year following never be higher because if you like if you you know go through the deadline it’s tough to say okay well he’s making 20 million now but he’s going to be making closer to 30 35 million like hartenstein just got 29 million per like that’s probably in line with who he’s going to be you know compared to in in terms of his next contract so it’s going to be a lot tougher to move Allen on $35 million a you know am year even if the does Spike than it is to move him at $20 million and you have him for 2 years guaranteed at that price so that’s where I think it’s like it’s just a really really tough situation and there’s no easy choice because it’s you know if they like as somebody who is a proponent of the Brandon Ingram trade it could blow up in like 8 seconds and it’s like we’re talking in like November and you’re like like why like why were we so behind like why was I so behind is this is the dumbest thing ever but also if you could also see a situation where it’s like yeah the offense moves a little better but they still can’t have all the same issues because it’s all the same guys so yeah you know we could be saying that in November too I can’t wait to find out what it’ll be honestly I I’m really interested to see how they approach the rest of this offseason and what the The Fallout of that will be now I do want to round this out very very quickly with a couple of the available free agents um honestly just going to throw three names at you and we’ll get your quick takes on them first guy is going to be super easy maybe not easy for you to go quick on but jedy Osman still out there are we are we down are we still down we said yes last yeah of course we’re still down you still need you still need a three four but yep you know you’ll take another two three I guess at least he’s he’s more of a three than some of the other two threes yeah he I think he’s you he’s a legit three on this roster I would say he’s a legit three for them he fits a lot better in with what ainson can like his type of offense he cuts he’s a really good off ball mover he can dribble the ball some I’m not going to say I watched a ton of Spurs last year but he finished a lot better at The Rim like finishing at The Rim has has been a really big issue and he’s kind of steadily improved it so he was really good last year in that category so I think there’s there there’s definitely something there I I mean he’s not going to he’s not going to cost you the full mid level um because if he did you know other teams would have already grabbed him yeah listen that he’s he’s always going to be inconsistent but those Osman outbursts are very much needed on this roster right now they could use a guy like that another person who we really didn’t talk much about last time who I’ve talked myself more into would be sadik Bay this is another like by low potentially get the most out of him I think you put him in a winning environment that could help him shine now something that I want to mention that I failed to mention uh in the fear of the sword article as well as my recent video that I did today he is coming off an ACL tear in March now knock on wood he’s 25 ACL tears are not what they used to be he could be back by December or January now something that’s important to note maybe he doesn’t get to full shape this season the good news is the NBA as long as I know knock on wood doesn’t plan on ending next year if if sadique Bay rounds out the full form then Following season and you get a legit six7 three and D Wing out of it you can’t have enough of them so that’s something that I would feel happy if the Cavs took a bet on that I would I would one of the things that I do think is important is you want to get playable minutes out of this midlevel exception and babe wouldn’t be playable minutes even when he does come back you know the first year after an ACL is usually pretty rough even for the best of the best so you know I don’t know how helpful he would be the like this next season but if you’re really trying to you know as we kind of mentioned earlier the Cav need to hit a couple home runs somewhere and you could talk yourself into this being a home run if everything lined up perfectly so I mean yeah i’ I’d be for it yeah that’s what I talked myself into is before I was a lot lower on the idea that even being a potential home run swing of course it would probably take a year for you to actually see the the reap the benefits of it but I foresee a path where he by next season the following year I mean would be the starting three and D Wing that they’ve needed not nowhere near Brandon Ingram level uh wing of course is not what I’m saying but if you kept the cor four together I think he could start on that team pretty easy right yeah I agree and so I have I’m gonna throw two more players at you at you actually uh one player who we did not talk about last time Caleb Martin not sure what his price range is going to be but if you manage to get him for the mle I think he’s a fantastic fit on paper athletic he elevates his game in the playoffs he’s tough he works off ball I he’s just a winning player Cavs could use more of those he’s got that dog in him they say they need more dogs or else how are we going to keep our name for the podcast George Nang cannot be the dog something’s wrong if he is your ener okay so we need we need a real dog on the roster more of a more of a private school bully than he is an enforcer but that’s fine um yeah I mean I’m not as high on him as um you are but he is somebody who think proba play um which is is also a problem but he gives you another playable player and I think if we’re talking about like you want to get sure things uh I think that’s something that that you want he’s not as good of a shooter as you would hope that he was and I think that’s kind of limits him a little bit like the same way that like Max dreu is like man he should be like if maxre was like a 37% three-point shooter he’d be one of he he’d be making so much more money yeah so and I think kind of like like Cale Martin kind of Falls in that same category last guy who a lot of Cav twitterers falling in love with now I know I said this before listen I didn’t watch the Pistons play basketball I didn’t watch much of Utah Jazz last year so if you’re not too familiar with this guy either it’s it’s okay I’ll give you the pass but Simone fonio fantastic fit on paper size shoots the lights out I would give up assets for him if it became necessary now Caris LeVert for him might be pushing it a little bit but I think I could talk myself into it uh I don’t know where you stand on him he has a restricted free agent which is important to note here because it might not be as simple as just signing him you might have to give up something uh but on paper he fits seamlessly so where do you stand on F Teo I like him I think it would be he’s he’s somebody who would definitely be in the rotation and I think if you’re doing that that’s where you would have him I mean like you need to get a guy in the in their rotation I know we just talked about s Bay but you know like if you’re and especially if you’re like trading assets for him you he needs he needs a for sure play um one of the things I think is tough is he came over really late in his uh career and he’s been on really bad teams so it can be tough to project like what do those numbers mean in a winning context so there’s a lot of uncertainty there but if you think that okay what he does in these terrible contexts translates perfectly to what you know the Cavs need then it’s like yeah I think he would definitely be worth going all out for um one of the things that’s always helpful is that if you plan on keeping the front Court which by all accounts it seems like they want to like you wrote something about on on fear of the sword the other day about Jared Allen Wendy saying that he thinks that he’s going to say in Cleveland so you have a little more flexibility as to who you play on the wing and I think that somebody with size like fonio I think he kind of fits in really well with what the Cavs have so he would probably be my preferred Target on this list I mean that’s not really saying much but you can you can definitely talk yourself into it and say well maybe that all translates over to a winning context and it might but it also it also might not so that’s that’s kind of the thing that’s that’s the question mark is that it is kind of strange for a player that old to be relatively an unknown uh it looks like it translates but think about Utah wat an AB last year he’s on Brooklyn you’re going oh my God this guy’s shooting the lights out if a contender picks him up and then Phoenix gets him and he can’t stay on the floor so you never know bad good stats on bad teams are tough to predict especially with someone who has never been on winning team in the NBA at least but it’s very easy to talk yourself into it and is that old because he’s not he’s not a he’s more in like the Sam Marill camp where like you don’t expect Sam like Sam Marl is not a young guy you don’t expect him to like oh he’s going to be so much better this next year it’s like this is kind of who he is and it’s whether or not you can utilize him so you know that’s that’s where you kind of have to trust your scouting uh and what you’re kind of seeing with your eyes and as as as we mentioned we’re not watching enough Jazz and pistons gam do that yeah I want to be as transparent as possible I barely watched this guy play so I can’t sit here and have a strong opinion on him uh I’ll leave that for the Utah Jazz fans who watch the podcast because I’m sure Jackson has brought in many of them he is really for like whatever reason I got it shot down in 2K because like you have to play with the different tiered teams like on like online so I I would play with the Jazz and I got a shot down so that’s you know young bull fan Jackson well more so like Lowry but unfortunately if you like if you run a bunch of pick and rolls with Lowry he gets really tired um so he has kind of the uh he has kind of the doc Doc Rivers Damien Lillard problem um if you if you use him running the ball but that’s we can talk about that later yeah we we can talk about that later Jackson spams pick and roll in 2K you heard it here I do too it’s it’s the best way to play it’s as long as you’re not doing the zigzag you know momentum boost shift and all that back play basketball if you’re a 2K player like there’s a difference between playing 2K and playing basketball I hate when people play 2K if you know what I’m trying to say I also um one thing that I do that I that I do feel bad about doing uh is I just post up Luca every every time I play with the Mavs because because he’s like a point guard and if they don’t like switch it up it’s like oh yeah he’s like posting up Devon Booker it’s like bucket you know so see that’s you’re playing basketball people don’t play 2K like a basketball simulator they play like an arcade game and it frustrates well I mean it is a video game it is a video game so I I’m not going to I’m not going to get mad at that I I just get mad because they don’t like like the CPU doesn’t move off ball well so it’s just really tough to like play Real Basketball because it’s like I cut this guy anyways yeah yeah yeah well on that note that’s going to do it for this episode of the junkyard pod you all know the drill by now if you want to support the channel uh like subscribe leave a comment all that good stuff and with that being said go Cavs I I agree go Cavs Brian can you drop your Xbox gamertag in the comments

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