Potential SOLUTIONS for Clippers & Pelicans + Spurs a PLAYOFF team? 👀 | The Hoop Collective

Potential SOLUTIONS for Clippers & Pelicans + Spurs a PLAYOFF team? 👀 | The Hoop Collective

hello welcome to the hoop Collective podcast we talk about the NBA and we are doing so on Friday afternoon on the East Coast hope everybody had a good Fourth of July holiday joining us on their holiday weekend from I believe are you still in New are you in New Orleans right now Andrew Lopez or are you in San Antonio I am which is is kind of funny because I thought by moving to San Antonio I wouldn’t have to track hurricanes anymore uh but I have my eye on this but I I’m in New Orleans for the weekend and then I don’t know maybe driving back to San Antonio uh this this Sunday I I don’t know who who knows right now well good luck with that and good luck to everybody in Texas who’s watching that hurricane join us from Los Angeles California is om yuk what up guys how was your fourth uh it’s you know the NBA uh transaction game has slowed down I think we’re was were able to enjoy a little bit of downtime it was still some things going on in fact just before we did this uh started recording here frons Vagner agreed to a five-year Max contract extension 220 million with the Orlando Magic we’ll talk about that in a little bit but first all I want to talk about the team you spend the most time covering the LA Clippers um they had a uh obviously an an eventful first week of a transaction season losing Paul George signing some players um what has been your read on where the Clippers are as a franchise after the developments of uh well you could sort of see the Paul George thing was sort of a slow motion car wreck but uh what where do you think the franchise is at this point I mean I think they’re they’re they were scrambling uh even though I I scrambling might not be the right word because I think they’ve known and seen this coming for a while that Paul George could very well be gone um we we kind of this this was put into motion basically since January 10th when Kawhi Leonard got his threeyear $150 million extension and that same night Paul George was kind of optimistic that he would get one but I mean that Kawai extension kind of almost came out of nowhere and it certainly felt like that night was a watershed moment for the franchise because they felt like hey we got this superstar in the summer of 2019 and now he actually wants to stay here and take less than the Max on an extension and what a moment for the franchise and Steve Balmer uh to celebrate and then all of a sudden it was like well you know I I think they offered Paul initially less than that and everything was downhill from that point on where Paul wanted a fourth year and Clippers were not willing to budge and I think what we’ve seen uh in the aftermath is a lot of people wondering why the Clippers would just not give him that fourth year and you know they were definitely afraid of this second apron um I think they saw the ramifications of a rule that they you know they feel has been built for them and the Warriors basically it was it to curb their spending and so their argument basically is that if they had given Paul that fourth year in a Max contract it would have severely hampered the way they could build out this team but not just that get those guys helped when they need to eventually in the three years they would need to get these guys help because all three guys James Harden who’s on a two-year deal but but Kawhi Leonard and Paul George are in their they’ll be in their mid-30s to late 30s and they just felt like they would not be able to get any other younger talent to really help those guys out so they decided we’re not going to give all that 4th and the other thing too is I think another thing that people were looking is that I just don’t think they were going to go above what Kawhi Leonard got they just were never going to go above that to give to Paul I mean if you looked at it the entire time I know what their I know what their reasoning is I’m gonna ask you do whether you buy it uh I do I I do I just don’t and and I don’t think they you know I think if they had their choice it would have brought Paul George back and ran it back because I do think they feel that this coming season with that those guys back they would have had a chance if things broke their way if you know if they stayed healthy and has a massive if because they’ve never been able to do that but if they were able to stay healthy there wasn’t one dynastic team they would have to go through you could other teams would have had injuries they could have had a chance especially when you looked at that stretch where they went 26 and5 they probably felt like hey we’d have James Harden a whole Camp if we had our guys healthy and kawai’s a big if we don’t know how kawhai heal is going to be he’s been in the gym working out and the plan looks like he’s going to be there with USA Basketball uh this weekend and next week and we’ll see how he go how his knee is with that you know you always have to look with Ka Leonard is not the day that he works out or plays it’s always two to three days later after that how he reacts but I think they felt if they brought every back everybody back they would have they could make a run but now that Paul’s gone I think what you’ve seen I think they’ve gone a little too heavy on defense I think they went out and got a lot of Defenders I think they saw that hey one of the massive improvements we made was we got Jeff Van Gundy as our top assistant Jeff Van Gundy obviously the defensive Guru we haven’t seen Jeff do coach in a very long time but if you look at Jeff’s record Jeff’s defenses are always excellent let’s go and get out a bunch get a bunch of Defenders I think they don’t have enough offense now especially if Kawai is not going to play every night and I think they do have to load manage Kawhi Leonard I think they got to go back to that this season because it didn’t work last year obviously I think playing him in all those back-to-backs early on remember he started that season playing like 26 straight games um I think they’re going to have to hold him out of back-to-back games James Harden is HE capable of you know carrying the offense in certain nights yeah but I don’t think it can be on an everynight basis because I think last night we I think he’s a great playmaker now at this stage of his career I think think he can light it up on certain nights but I don’t think he can carry the load all the time then you have a wild card that they brought in and Kevin Porter Jr we’re going to have to see how that works out for them it’s obviously a big PR risk for them but the guy can fill the basket up and then they still have Norm care that much about PR risk ter man no no I think uh I think they’ve always looked at those things where they said hey we got to be able to find Talent where we can get it a talent that we normally can’t get it probably is going to be at a risk um and they’ll say like hey you know he’s in a program we’re going to have zero tolerance uh policy with him they did it with Josh Primo last year um this one I think is a I think you’re elevating the risk factor with Kevin Porter Jr obviously compared to Josh Primo um so here’s what I my opinion based on what I know I think what the Clippers are saying is what is called in poker a semi Bluff like when you’re playing poker sometimes you’re making a bluff you still have a an okay Chance of making your hand and you’re you you you know it’s not a straight Bluff because because you still have a have a chance to win if you get called on it but it’s a it’s know as a semi Bluff I think what the Clippers are are describing this as a semi Bluff and the reason I believe that is because and Zack low has brought this up um it’s a little disingenuous to to say you’re worried about the apron when you had a contract offer on the table for Paul George that would have in fact taken you into the apron um and I know that uh yes if their argument is well if we had given him the four years we would have been in big trouble with the apron four years from now you only were giving James Harden a two-year contract you knew that’s what you were going to give him that’s what you were willing to give that’s what he was willing to take if you had given Paul George four years you would have had harden off your books in two years and you could have spent two years looking for a cheap replacement for him and you wouldn’t had to worry about the second AIT in the fourth year but let me counter that let me counter that how how would kawhai feel we don’t know this question we don’t know the answer to this how would Ka all got more money and more years this is why I’m saying that the that the apron is a semi Bluff what about also what about also who is going to be a free agent uh in the in that fourth year if you were to give Paul a fourth year who’s coming up in the fourth year or even in the third year who could the Clippers go big name I don’t know how I think personally I think personally they are going to try to maintain flexibility to eventually reload and try to go after a you know and I’m not for the aggregators out there I’m not saying this like I’m breaking news I’m saying this as I’m throwing out there this is my own idea uh that they would go after like Shay gilders Alexander or an Anthony Edwards when they come up whatever Luca you know what I mean I think that’s they’re going to try to maintain that flexibility I don’t think you can plan three years in advance on free agency I don’t think that’s I don’t think that’s a way to run your franchise and I don’t think that’s what they’re doing I think they just didn’t believe in in the team enough I mean they did they did kind of plan things out a little bit for Kawai I mean they they well they’re prepared to try to go after Kawai well in advance before it three years not three years when they had a team that was you know loaded so I just um I don’t know like by the way I’m not taking a position that they acted wrong I’m not like saying that they screwed up the way they I mean they may win the same amount of games next year as they did this year like you know who’s to say that increased increased role for Terren man won’t work who’s to say that Derrick Jones Jr coming in there will not be a good really good addition right right like who’s to say they won’t make another move right who’s to say that Harden and George or Harden and kawhai without Paul may be more efficient with each other they may be able to increase their production because they’re not sharing it I’m not arguing M that the Clippers have made a catastrophic mistake here they may end up looking okay in this I’m just rejecting that it was all about the second apron when their other commitments when their when their offer would have taken them to the second apron because it’s not like if Paul George said you know what I will take the three years 150 million then they would have said oh actually we just did the math and that takes us into the apron so we’re not going to take it we’re not going to take it they’re using semi Bluff excuse I think when they say second apron they’re probably fine with second apron with kawhai and Paul together I think it was that fourth year like I said they would had three years to figure that out right and then I think normally I think normally and I’ve always been on this side is you you pay the player the money and you figure it out later I just don’t think I think with they had been doing that maybe they’re just done with it and that’s and I understand they can’t say that so maybe they maybe that’s what they came to and they’re just like we can’t say that we’re just tired of paying these guys you know we can’t say that we don’t think that this mix is worth it anymore we can’t say that we think that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is crazy we can say that it’s the apron and so I think they’re just I mean it’s it’s not that it’s not the apron I’m not saying that that’s no reason I just think that it’s a excuse is not the correct word I just think that it’s it’s doing a lot of work for and the fact that they had a A fiveyear or a three-year offer undercuts that they were that worried about the apron that’s all I’m saying um uh what do you think is gonna happen with Russell Westbrook well it certainly looks like they uh you know they they’re trying to get Chris done and so obviously that would give them three point guards uh you know if you James Harden Kevin Porter Jr uh Chris D and so Russ you know obviously they got to find a place for Russ and I think that’s probably what’s been part of the reason why there’s been a holdup with the Chris Dunn thing is I think they’re trying to work something out and see what else they can do because I think two guys it looks like they would try to move would be PJ Tucker and Russell Westbrook um and of course there’s a lot of noise about Russell Westbrook potentially with uh and so that might make sense in the S point where if you look at it you think well is Russell Westbrook really going to fit in with Nicole yage and Jamal Murray and those guys well you know to me there’s a Nico yage Russell Westbrook and and DeAndre Jordan are all have the same agency so I think from that standpoint they probably would try to make it work out as best as possible if Russ could get to Denver we’ll see what happens there but I think the Clippers are trying to find uh suitors to see what they can do with you know PJ and Russell Westbrook as well well PJ Tucker basically didn’t play for them at all last year so that doesn’t affect them Russell Westbrook did play quite a bit last year and played reasonably for a bunch of the time there were some nights where it didn’t work out so well um why do you think they’re moving on from Russ it’s very clear that they are but why do you think they are well I think if you look at how they paired Russ and from the GetGo one of the guys they always felt comfortable pairing Russ with was PG and so when they moved Russ to the bench a lot of the thought process was when we kind of stagger guys out we’re going to stagger Russ with PG because those two obviously are friends and they played the best together and their talent seemed to work together so with PG gone I think also that not saying that’s the the big reason why but you know I I think uh that was one of the reasons you could see that that would be an indicator that hey you know what did they going to do with Russ next season so and I think the playoff finish was also you know everybody struggled at the end of that play nobody looked good in the end but Russ certainly had his struggles in that first round so they seem ready to go in a in a different direction and like I said I mean if you’re gonna go with like a a Chris Don who I think they’ve always kind of liked in the past certainly I think they like his defense it just feels like they’re building around a team that is going to be able to defend but to me looks like it’s going to have to win a lot of games in the low 100s well they do have a very good coach who can coach that I believe in tyo although I think that the way they played last year by playing all those guys and not worrying as much about the um about the load management was a tyo driven thing I think that’s the way tyou wanted to coach and that’s one of the reasons why they went that way so we’ll see how that goes this year Mr Lopez New Orleans Pelicans have had an active offseason as well trading uh for dejonte Murray um as of right now they have no starting center what do do you think about the dejonte Murray acquisition and what do you think they’re going to do about the fact they have no starting center with valent junis going to Washington well I I’ll say this I was surprised at first when the dejonte deal happened and it was not for Brandon Ingram I thought one of the uh iterations of that deal speak to that uh one of the iterations of that deal was I can speak to that yeah was Brandon for de Jon capella and then that obviously didn’t go the Hawks weren’t interested in taking Brandon Ingram sorry go ahead so um I knew they were shopping around that Larry Dyson pick package um that they ended up using um AJ Liddell got thrown into that because it got him in the Larry Nance Jr um uh Dyson Daniels the uh young guard and EJ Liddell and two first round picks that was what was traded for Deon Murray just to be just to be clear sorry and they’re going to have to do something else that because of the timing on this uh originally they they got this deal done prior to the year to to I think it was officially it came down what June 30th or whatever it was the idea was get the trade done then but it would have because of uh deon’s trade kicker which is the largest trade kicker uh in the NBA muchal I think it’s 12 million total right um so the the Hawks have to pay that correct but it goes onto the Pelicans book the number is bigger yes yeah and and that going onto the Pelicans books in the 2000 technically the 2023 24 season wasn’t over yet so if Deonte had come onto the books with that trade kicker it would have pushed the Pelicans into the tax and that is problematic on a couple of fronts one they actually have to pay tax on the amount of money that they’re over secondly when you’re a taxpayer you don’t get the dispersement of the other tax dollars which I think was over10 Million it it was like it was like 12 million okay so that would have cost them probably an excess of 15 18 million correct so they decided not to do that trade uh until after July 1 I assume it has to be by July 6 we’re in the moratorium now so I guess tomorrow it’ll get it’ll get announced I guess when this podcast posts on Saturday or whatever so that’s just to explain that housekeeping correct and there’s going to be some sort of uh addition there’s a couple of avenues that they have there one being the onen chunis uh deal that he did with I believe the the the Wizards is coming in at 330 so his first year is 953 they have a couple of exceptions including the Monte Morris exception that JB could possibly go into and they can uh take care of that that’s one Avenue that I know no just to be clear just to be clear because we move past it kind of fast and people get confused what the the issue with the trade is that with the new salary that deur has 28 million coming in 19 million going up the trade doesn’t work as constructed the um they have to uh they have to add a player to the trade um to to balance out the trade so a way about 2.3 million has to be added from New Orleans in the deal they could have done it in the last League year but in this league year they can’t right and so as a result they have to to alter the trade a little bit and so what Andrew is saying is that um Valen junis is going to sign with the wizards they could do that as a sign in trade and take Valen junis into a trade exception and or just into cap space and send the Pelicans back a trade exception which would enable them to complete that trade um also uh it would be in a three-way transaction I’m sure it make him complete the trade um but I think Washington would want something for they don’t right to to make this happen and so they’re so they’re gonna have to throw something down there right they’re gonna have to go Sweden or Washington’s way if they decide to do that there’s a few other ways they can make this happen still yeah I just wantan to I don’t want to just race past it go ahead om as somebody who covered Brandon Ingram and likes Brandon Ingram a lot and I understand the money is a lot too but I’ve been a little surprised that he doesn’t have much of a market like that teams don’t aren’t really looking especially like teams that are like rebuilding I mean I get like as Charlotte and San Antonio maybe has been mentioned along with him but like Brandon Ingam is a really good player he might not be a max player he might not be a guy that’s G to carry a franchise a guy that’s gonna you know score big buckets at the end of games but he’s a very very good player and I feel like I I’m been a little surprised that there been so many teams that just don’t want to have anything to do with it the market I don’t think that’s it but go but you know uh Andrew go ahead I want I want to explain but go ahead no because the market for Brandon Ingram is you’re not looking at the market for Brandon Ingram as a one-year player at 36 million the market for Brandon Ingram is he’s looking for four years $28 million and I think that’s where the market has kind of gone down a little bit to to to not many teams and also I think there’s a few teams right now who they won they okay what happened with Paul George that’s going to Philly boom that’s knocked out what happens with with lry Markin and what happens with dear there’s other things that are going to figure it out and then maybe in a week or so then we’ll see a market for Brandon start to kind of increase but it’s not that okay yeah we’re not we don’t want to pay Brandon 36 million next year it’s do we want to pay Brandon eam Max contract money and I think that’s what teams are kind of starting to kind of figure out and that’s why there’s not this large market right now uh for for Brandon Services right so I mean like look if he doesn’t get you know if teams don’t want to pay the max then he’s not gonna get the max right but like you look at like France Vagner and I get it France Vagner has probably more upside side because he’s younger but I mean like France longer got a ton of money and I get Orlando has to pay him because they want to keep this young core together and everything like that but I still think like Brandon Ingram I’m not say Brandon Ingram is a really good player that I think if I was like a Charlotte or San Antonio I’d be I’d love to have Brandon Ingram yeah and I think the New Orleans is also in that boat too they don’t they’re they’re trying to weigh out of okay we’re gonna have a z extension we’re eventually we’re gonna we have CJ’s money for 33 the next couple of years we’re going to have uh her her Jones is already on an extend Trey Trey Murphy is going to cost uh a pretty penny when when his extension gets in so they have to worry how many big contracts can we handle and can we handle a $50 million deal but I think if if Brandon were to take a lesser deal for New Orleans in the say 4174 160 range New Orleans would be just as fine keeping him around but going back to Brian’s original question of them not having a center now uh because you you’ve lost Janis valent Tunis to Washington Larry Dan is a part of the the dejonte Murray deal uh Cody Z was your your your third big this year you bring in Eve Mei who has a lot of potential he a project exactly he is a project you don’t think probably want him being your 82 game starting center next year so uh the the cleanest way I think at this point for them to get a starting center is still probably to look uh at that Brandon Ingram market and I think they’re they’re going to continue to do that and see uh you know maybe what that could bring them in in terms of a starting center yes so let me let me discuss spread anger for a second it’s not that people don’t think Brandon Ingram is a good player it’s not that people don’t want to trade for Brandon Ingram it’s that he is a poster boy for the new reality in the NBA which is you cannot have a max player not playing like a max player and that sounds like a pretty basic terminology and a pretty basic um rule that you would always want like what team wants to have a max player who doesn’t play like a max player well there’s quite a few of them actually you know like let me give you a classic example Michael Porter Jr has a max contract from the Nuggets when the Nuggets gave him that contract he they knew he wasn’t their first or second best player they were comfortable with him being their third best player um and you know with hope that he would grow into it more but like they gave him that contract knowing that um Andrew Wiggins a few years before that when they gave him that contract they weren’t sure he was ever going to be like a perennial Allstar they but you know it was like okay we’re gonna we’re gonna we’re gonna bet on him it’s very hard to do that with with this new apron environment like you cannot have I talk a lot about the third salary your if you have two max players your third highest salary you gotta be real careful there because if you have three max players you really are really squeezed those three max is better be kicking tail like with with where the 76ers are embiid Maxi and Paul George better be awesome and you know with with the way Ingram played this last year and he was good two years ago um he was injured a lot and that’s the other thing I’ll point this out too Lopez Ingram has missed an average of 25 games well I guess maybe it’s not 25 because some of the seasons were shortened he’s played an average of 57 games over the last seven years he misses games yeah for a bunch of different reasons um he didn’t have a great year last year he was good he shot 49% he averaged 21 points you know he shot uh 36% on threes like he’s good like he he’s a he’s a guy who can be a point forward distribute the ball he put the ball in his hands he’s actually better that way he can do a lot of things but he didn’t have a good year and he missed 18 games and and um it’s just right now it’s not on the pallet for teams to trade for him when everybody knows that he is very powerful agent are going to want a Max and so it’s not that Ingram isn’t desire as a player it’s that they don’t desire the circumstances especially in this moment in time I guess what I was saying was I wasn’t advocating for him as a max player I was more saying like under the under the understanding that he’s not a max player and thinking that that that price is eventually going to go down if you’re Brandon Ingram and you believe in yourself which you do and I I spoke to Brandon last year he was on Team USA last year I spoke to him about how he wasn’t they were he was offered an extension last year a Max extension and the and he didn’t sign it because he thought he could make the all-nba team and get a supermax so this is a guy who believes he can be a supermax player and now you’re saying a year later by the way after he goes for 21 points and shoots 50% like you know he probably thinks that his usage could have different all Lopez you know he probably doesn’t he’s not I’m just saying like he’s not in the mode to be taking a discount right now and his agent is not in the mode to take a discount either he’s still a guy who over the course of his time in Orleans averaged 235 and five over the last five years he was you know he’s made an All-Star game he was most improved a couple years ago he’s 26 it’s not the time to take what you think is potential less than your value and so teams know this it’s not that the teams don’t want brandom on their roster they just don’t want that they don’t want to play who thinks he should be getting a super max or absolutely a Max that’s what they don’t want one thing that’s maybe problematic in kind of the eyes of a lot some people right now of how they see Brandon the last time you saw him was was not the best version of Brandon Ingram and the last time that you saw Brandon was a a Brandon who maybe came back a little early from from an e brw and was probably maybe 80% that was a rough injury man that was a really upsetting injury the way that happened in the playoff I they were everything was starting to click for New Orleans Brandon hits it in in Orlando suffers a bone bruise kind of avoids any ligament damage but when he came back in the playoffs it’s okay he comes back I think for the last regular season game okay they look like they’re about they’re they’re trying to come back against the Lakers in the playin Zion’s hamstring goes and now Brandon has to do everything or or be the number one guy offensively CJ’s doing what he could do herb could do what he could do try all that kind of stuff but there no extra help Brandon’s probably you know he’s definitely not 100% at this point he’s not going to make excuses for it but that was a hard injury to come back from Lou Dort was just they were allowing him to be very physical in that series and he got to do everything he wanted and it Brandon was definitely in the DOR chamber it was not a very good look however when you when you’re coming out of that that’s probably the last thing I think the people remember right now about Brandon not the fact that two two playoff series ago against or or two years ago in the playoffs he was maybe one of the best players on the court when they were playing the Suns in uh when the suns were the number one seed I think he averaged 27 or 28 in that series he is still that level of player it’s just kind of like as as Brian was saying I think there’s because of rules right now I think there’s there’s just not the appetite right now to to maybe go out and pay him the 428 right now maybe as we see how how some of these other teams Shake loose what what happens with Sacramento’s interest what happens with Cleveland’s interest there there’s some other teams out there but figure all that out and then maybe we’ll see what what shakes with Brandon you know in a couple of weeks all right couple more questions about the Pelicans because they’re team we don’t talk about but but they’re kind of a they’re they’re a fascinating team right now um Trey Murphy is up for a contract extension uh fron vogner we just mentioned um two years or four five years and 220 million um the same draft class uh Scotty Barnes also got a Max in that draft class um Kade Cunningham has not signed Evan Mobley has not signed uh but if I were the two of them who were top four picks after seeing fron Vagner who is a player who is you know High upside player but did not have a great third year where there was big expectations of him to have a a really breakthrough third year he was fine um his shooting percentage plunged he he could not make a three um 36 to 28 yeah 36% to 28% now what you’d expect he did average 20 points a game you know um shot the ball well inside the arc but um a little mild surprise especially in this environment that he would get a Max but if you’re Kate Cunningham and Evan Moy you’re like excuse me if France Vagner is getting a Max I’m getting a Max um so that’s just you know I think they probably are already there but this will just and Bolden them Trey Murphy is part of the same 2021 draft class um you know there’s a couple other players in this draft class who will have interesting negotiations for example um Jonathan kuminga up for an extension with the Warriors alaran shenon up for extension with the Rockets both of those guys are going to want probably big salaries because they’re they’re looking like um impressive uh prospects um where do you think Trey Murphy is going to come in at I think this has got to be a priority for them Lopez there’s a bunch of teams in the league who would love to have Trey Murphy and he’s been off limits in trade talks yeah and that’s it’s it’s when you when you do ask around and everybody what about Trey what about her well well those two guys aren’t going anywhere you you you’ve probably got better chances with the rest of the roster but I I would think Trey is gonna come in I would think 25 to 30 a year is that probably I think with now fr mean that’s that’s a big one um I mean like Jaden McDaniels I think that’s the deal that kind of was is like where I start um and that was what 5150 yeah his uh his salary is I mean also I mean Emanuel quickley got 145 I mean that’s I mean I’m I’m I feel like he’s in the 150ish area you can get the five years now because of how the deals are set up um with the change in the last CBA so I I think you’re in that range I think obviously Trace uh they they see some of these higher numbers but I mean he is a guy who he battled a little bit of injury he battled some injuries last year he had a really good um 22 23 was kind of coming into his own a little bit had had some spot star was a starter most of that year because of because of the injuries took a step back last year um but it’s still a guy who’s you know one of the better shooters in the NBA shot 39 shooting 39% for his career from three um real range to to 28 30 feet can really help space a defense by the way 26 million is what um is what MC Jaden McDaniel’s uh his average salary so I would think just for various reasons he’s want he’s gonna want a little higher than that right so that’s why that that’s where I think I got the 30 from like that’s probably where where I could see it see it coming in um he’s work you know the spacing that he provides is there the pels are one of these teams I know a lot of these teams do it now the Spurs actually had the line out the other day they they basically tape or paint on a four-point line on their courts in practice uh what would be a hypothetical four-point line that’s basically three or four feet behind the the the three-point line and you can work on spacing that way he’s out there doing it every every day when you when you go to practice in New Orleans um I I I think that one of the other reasons that you can look at a a potential Brandon deal is if you’re paying Brandon you know would you rather pay Brandon 52 million or would you rather pay Trey Murphy whatever he’s going to be obviously he has one more year before that extension kicks in uh a potential Brandon deal would in theory slide uh if you’re going to go do this deal for a center let’s say um could potentially s Trey Murphy into the starting lineup um and provide you know Zion with a little bit more more spacing than than what they’ve had in the past so I I I think it’s going to be interesting deal I I think me in the 2530 range but we’ll we’ll see where it ultimately comes in yeah I I would think he’d probably try for even higher than 30 what he gets is another thing but uh you know they gota be careful they’re definitely gonna try for higher than 30 that’s I I I know that um just you know they’re they’re just the CJ McCollum contract this is a this is this is what I mean by the third salary and it’s it’s a little bit ironic because CJ McCollum as the uh president of the Union negotiated this this deal but this is this is kind of what I’m talking about so obviously the Pelican’s number one salary is Zion 36 million he makes a few hundred thousand more than Brandon Ingram at 36 million and CJ mccum is a 33 million well CJ is a is a quality player but is he a $33 million player in this environment um I don’t know uh you know he shot averaged 20 points a game last year he you know shot the ball ninth nth ninth straight year I think he’s averaged 20 a game which he’s he’s a great offensive player you know is is he would probably argue that he’s a good value at that deal yeah um I don’t know hit hit 240 239 threes last year in 66 games yeah he had the best three-point shooting season of his career I mean there’s no doubt about that there’s no doubt about that so I don’t know maybe people would say that that’s not a thing but it it it it causes you some pause when you have that like that’s one of the reasons why the Pelicans can’t extend Ingram because they got McCollum on their books and if they extend you know when they extend Murphy he’ll be on their books and then you’d potentially have three players making 30 million or four players making $30 million just the publicans can’t do that that’s just not what they’re going to do they’ve never paid the tax so you have to understand so let ask you this and all these all these challenges by the way I think they’re a good team and they um you know like there’s some players that you know I mean if Zion stays healthy for the whole season I know it’s a huge if I shouldn’t assume that but like there’s no reason why they’re not they’re not a top four team you know maybe not just a top 16 but a top 14 um one thing one more thing Lopez um the Trailblazers have three starter level centers assuming that you think you can start Donovan kingan maybe you can’t start him right away but they have DeAndre Aiden Donovan kingan and Robert Williams who they acquired from uh Boston in the um in the Drew Holiday trade and he’ll be back and is working out um he was a sometimes starter sometimes Off the Bench guy it seems like they’ve got one extra Center and New Orleans doesn’t have any centers um it seems to me like those two teams could do business it would it would make some sense there um especially when you look at a guy if you want to start with uh Robert Williams is from Louisiana would be a little bit of a homecoming he’s from uh kind of the streetport area went to the north Cado High School uh remember covering him in a state championship or state semi-finals um Robert Williams was shooting threes all over the place it was very different Robert Williams than Robert Williams we we the time lord we know and love today but another thing about that is if if you look at DeAndre Aton who would still potentially pose some of the same problems salary-wise long term you’d have to very much be be comfortable with that is if you’re New Orleans but Willie Green did spend some time in Phoenix uh and was was around DeAndre Aton uh at at some point so it’s that one does it makes sense I I still think to me Cleveland makes sense um once they figure out what where they’re going to go with the the Garland uh the Don the Darius Garland Donovan Mitchell backt once Moy gets his extension you know what does that look like for Jared Allen I think that’s probably something that New Orleans has kicked around for for quite some time uh if they can figure that out to me that’s kind of where some just kind of keep going back to but uh Portland does on paper make a lot of sense because if you you have an extra Center and I know a team that needs an extra center right now and they would uh they are definitely still looking for one especially as the free agent Center Market is is drying up a little bit more rapidly I think than they what they thought even on guys who could just come in and be you know a the 11th 12th guy on the roster as as Eve Mei is uh still trying to be a project and not you know get getting thrust into action right away yeah so the Pelicans have some work left to do for them they’re potentially two significant deals but at least one deal they’re going to have to make so I know there’s a lot of focus on other teams but you know two two teams I would say that if you work in the NBA and the conversations I have every day with people in the NBA two teams I wouldn’t say these are the only teams but two teams that conversations are about well there’s some with the Jazz because there’s you know there’s uncertainty with Markin in and and how they’ll spend their cap space they still have cap space out there and teams have to spend to the floor they they’re required to spend a certain amount of money Sacramento um Sacramento has has been tied into a whole bunch of significant name players including Brandon Ingram including Kyle kosma um including Lowry marinan like they’ve been attached to um uh all these players uh they have some draft picks that they can trade they have Harrison Barnes who has uh two years and about $37 million left on his deal they have Kevin herder who is coming off a shoulder injury but he’s got two years and about $35 million left on his deal um they have Trey Lyles who’s got who’s an expiring contract so they have some you know Barnes and herder have um have some value um and they do owe a first round pick to the I think it’s a lottery protected or tybe top 10 protected I should know I don’t off top of my head pick to the Hawks but they do have future first that they can give so they’ve been kind of having discussions um with an indication that they want to bring in um another significant piece as their sort of third salary um they have dearen Fox on a funmax for two more years he is electing not to extend his contract this summer I think it’s because he thinks he can make the lnba team potentially be a super max player I wouldn’t necessarily talk him out of that um but um you know sabonis his new contract kicks in this year it’s 40 million so he is not at the max and and fox is at the Fun Max so they technically have room to add a significant salary so um but people are people in the league talk about the Kings what they’re going to do J about the Jazz they talk about the Pelicans so that’s why I appreciate you saying that oh one of the teams you pay attention to a lot and spend some time with is the Denver Nuggets um the Nuggets obviously lost cavius Caldwell Pope um they have not been able to make a significant addition to their roster at this point um they did trade up in the draft for donon Holmes uh Calvin booth has basically indicated that uh Christian Brown will be the new starter at two guard um and you mentioned they’ve been they’ve been attached to Russell Westbrook although I think that’s a a backup play but where do you think the nuggets are at this point I mean I can understand that their fans are a little frustrated because losing kcp is such a critical piece to what they do I mean he does all the dirty work he obviously was perhaps the best defender obviously a three and D guy and so now you know we’ve been talking about Christian Brown now for a couple years about his potential uh and he’s played great in spurts and now he’s gonna be thrusted into that role to basically fill that spot and I think he probably you know ivly case p is a two-time champion right so those are big shoes to fill but I think Christian Brown I think they like him a lot uh I liked what I saw from him at the end of the season in the locker room after the game uh when they lost I gotta say Christian Brown might have taken that loss harder than anybody and that was a very proud team that was not ready for their season to come to an end and how fast it came to an end remember because they had that collapse in the second half I wasn’t ready for it yeah Christian Brown look I mean there were moments where I think he would was uh you know there were tears in his eyes he took that one really hard and I think that’s the type of guy you want to see um a guy that wants it that bad so a guy who he used to win championship his last few years he hadn’t he hadn’t Lo he hadn’t been eliminated in literally years and now look I let’s let me talk Westbrook a little bit perhaps I can see you know look the shooting is not really there like if you if you envision like Nicole yic throwing a corner pass to Russell Westbrook how I mean in the corner three is probably Russell’s best three but you know it’s not exactly what you envision but losing a guy like Casey P last year quietly Russell Westbrook had perhaps his best defensive year individually of his career um he was a top Defender one-on-one so perhaps they think we got a guy that’s athletic that can defend a guy that brings energy a guy off the bench a guy who can push the pace a guy that can rebound um I think maybe they see some potential in that it would be funny because they he would be replacing another former Clipper backup point guard and Reggie Jackson who they just shipped out but um they need to add a couple guys because knowing Michael Malone one of the issues last year was they went away from veterans like Jeff Green Bruce Brown um and they went and got they decided to go with some of these younger guys that Calvin Booth wanted to groom and draft but Michael Malone was still very much in a you know I trust veterans and I want to win now so we’ll see what comes up this coming season because it’s shaping up that the guys like strawther and things like that are going to have to start stepping up and get more playing time they didn’t resign Justin holiday or contavious called well Pope so basically what and like okay they’re gonna sign Westbrook maybe but um basically what Calvin Boo looks like he’s doing and their transactions aren’t over yet but looks like Calvin Booth is saying uh I’m taking away your veterans to mik Michael Malone you’ve got to play Brown STS a starter you’ve got to play pton Watson more you’ve got to play Julian straw more their first- round pick from last year um that’s that’s a tale of’s oldest time the general manager takes away the options for the coach and forces them to play the young guys so that also could be what’s going on the the you know where the where the Nuggets need help is you know Wing two-way wings and they’ve got a bunch of them sitting on the bench that Calvin Booth you know went out and acquired so unproven but yeah I mean yeah of course and that’s why M doesn’t want to play him yeah pton Watson I think is GNA be a good player uh I do think he probably he needs more minutes um it’s just a matter of Michel Malone trusting these guys I maybe they go out and we’ll see what happens at the end of free agency and who’s available and they find some a couple other veterans to to fill out that roster um I mean I I’d be very I I find it very intriguing if they do end up with Russ how that would look like because um you know that think that would be a very interesting fit yeah they’ve even got like they had a high second round pick uh that they traded for last year Jaylen picket he barely played um but I’m sure that Calvin boo would love to see him play more right like you know your Replacements are sitting there so play I mean look strawther had a great preseason last year at one point I thought with all the threes he was hitting I was like oh man this guy might be pretty good but I also kind of knew like Michael Malone plays the starters very heavy minutes and you know does not trust a lot of guys coming off that bench so uh we’re gonna have to see how they fill out that the rest of the bench and what what’s going to happen next I keep saying this and no one seems to be reacting but um Jamal Murray is still not signed his extension um Aaron Gordon is extension eligible later this summer so just going to point that out um all right uh Lopez uh you’re now your team where you live San Antonio um with a with a giant pickup of Chris Paul uh he took him TW I keep like I’ve been saying this he he he was he was not a free agent for 20 years he was never a free agent um I guess maybe his contract expired in Phoenix and they resigned him so I guess technically he was a free agent there but he was never actually like out on the market receiving other offers and he was a free agent for about five minutes G say it was 20 years and 20 minutes that’s probably what it was the I mean obviously the SP had indicated they were interested in him and they come to an agreement one year 11 million um this isn’t a semi Bluff like I was talking about earlier but it’s a semi maybe it’s a semi Bluff because this is the Spurs improving without question improving their weakest position which is point guard and them doing it with uh Hall of Famer but also not doing it in a major investment they will have for years like you can go to Victor wanyama and say Victor we just got you one of the greatest Point cards of all time look how we’re upgrading the roster that’s a true statement but also at the same time it’s not like it’s a Lock Stock and Barrel move it’s like a running mate for Victor for a long time which is what I think you know is going to be needed it will make them better but I also think there’s still going to be a lottery team um unless unless you think Victor’s good enough to carry them maybe into the playin but what’s your feel in in there in San Antonio with with the Chris Paul transaction it’s not a move necessarily for 2425 Victor wanyama but more for down the line Victor wanyama even if this is the only season that Chris Paul plays in San Antonio um it’s one of those moves where it’s about what can Trey Jones learn what can saon Castle learn what can all de Vel learn all these guys are GNA pick up all these things from CP Victor is gonna pick up things from CP and how is this going to be a long-term move they’ve kind of Kick the tires a little bit on maybe some other guys but I think they’re still just in a you know one thing that that that GN Brian Wright has said over and over again is this is still going to be a brickby brick process and I don’t think Victor’s going to be even if if Victor’s even playing at the level that he was playing at the end of the season when he was averaging 232 four or five blocks a game um and still shooting Prett pretty good um I don’t think they’re going to be in a position where they’re going to be you know a a a top team for Cooper flag next year I think they will be closer to the playin then they will be to the top of the lottery I don’t necessarily know if they get to the playin yet um without making some other moves but I I see this as a a win for San Antonio because of what Chris Paul’s going to bring I think uh to them as an organization and what some of these other guys are going to be able to learn at this point if if if Chris Paul is is at this stage of his career taking this Oney year1 million deal instead of trying to go chase a minimum deal with you know either the LA teams where his house is um or or trying to go look at a ring right now he is kind of at least bought in on this um helping out and teaching in this kind of next stage of his what he’s going to do so I think it’s some one of these things that while there will be a I think a positive uh onc Court reaction to this this year I think this is going to be more about what this is going to mean longer term for for some of these guys in including Stefon castle and Victor oneyama Stefan Castle the number four pick in the draft this year don’t you think though that Chris Paul is going to come in yes he probably agreed to all those things you said but he’s gonna try to make the play in and like I just don’t know if the other deal other things that they have done at this point takes them because at this point all they have done is they’ve lost Jed Osman um who’s a solid seven or eth guy for them last year they haven’t lost him yet he’s not signed anywhere well yeah he’s not anywhere yet but he’s he’s not on the roster yet but all they’ve done is really brought in Chris Paul Stefon Castle Harrison Ingram their second round pick uh that I mean that’s really if they make another move oh okay I think they can well they’re compelled to because they’re they’re still below the floor right so well I think that’s that could be where if one thing that they did do before uh July 1 was that’s when Devonte Graham had a a guarantee date on his contract he is another 10 or think he’s guaranteed for 2.89 his contracts about 129 or 13 million so that can take care of a little bit of that in terms of if they just want to have him on the roster and and he can be a tradeable number if they want to go that route down the line but um if they make another move I could see them being closer and trying to to be there but I I now I mean a team that was 22 and 60 last year is I mean maybe they could push for 35 wins but I mean I we we just watched the Houston Rockets go 41 and 41 last year and not even make the plan so right you have to be very very you still to be a very good team I think to make the play in the in the west and I don’t know if 36 wins 38 wins uh get you there next year yeah um well they’re going to be fascinating team to watch um I think Chris working with Victor is gonna be you’re gonna have a lot of fun and I suspect you to be writing and talking about it throughout next year um because uh Chris is he’s No Nonsense but he also does what it takes to win and if what it takes to win is to feed Victor 55 times a game he’ll do it you know he will take three shots if it makes the most sense and um you know Victor will have an ally um I think uh that’s something he’s gonna be you know gonna be looking looking for so definitely one of the more interesting moves of the summer I think wy’s gonna have a big year next year I think he’s taking step forward I mean but I’m talking about like from a fantasy perspective yeah I am definitely taking him early with my first round pick if I get draft that high I think he’s high in that draft to make sure you get Victor wama you’re gonna have to be really high in that draft to make sure you get Vic well it’s gonna be interesting to watch Victor play for the French um yes in the uh in the Olympics you know and the the alley he had against turkey the other day I where he almost hit his I was like yes turkey don’t call it turkey anymore it’s turkey a now when he when he almost hit his head I think Batum throw that butum I think he was also I think in the mix to come down I think if if the Spurs would have somehow gotten Chris Paul and Batum they would have gone from the youngest team to the oldest team just just on those just on those two moves alone it wouldn’t have they wouldn’t have needed anything else they could have kept the team the same as last year and just gone from youngest to oldest but um you know patum wants to go back out west that’s cool but uh he that was a nice oop that he threw the other day that I think it’s it’s going to be fun to watch him and uh all the all the things are going to be there with this uh this lineup just in case you forgot what Victor’s numbers were his rookie year 21.4 points a game and remember he didn’t his scoring was I want to look and see what it was after the All-Star break well hold it was it was 23 after the allstar break it was like 235 I want to say or something like that I feel like I’ve written out enough that I I feel like I know but I’m gonna double points a game uh 11 rebounds 7.6 rebounds four assists 1.2 steals 3.6 blocks which of the league so in the stock stat which everybody loves uh Steals and blocks together um basically five a game post Allstar 23 and a half points 12 rebounds 5.3 assists 4.5 blocks a game that’s post Allstar in but not even post Allstar it was really like the last month right that he kind of turned it on even more he did he had a he had a really good I mean January he had I mean 25 137 um almost you know more than five blocks a game but he only played like five games in January uh it was really kind of like January on is when he really started to take off I think uh where the shooting started to come around I think that was the other thing is the fact that he shot you know a lot better post Allstar um I mean this is still a guy look triple double with blocks triple double with assists we had the five by five I mean he’s I I he is going to challenge for an all NBA team team next year especially because and I think he was you know he was in some people’s conversations this year if the team’s not 22 and 60 but he’s he is going to be in the conversation for you know top 15 player easily next year let me see over his last 15 games he averaged uh almost five blocks a game good luck folks um it’s gonna be uh you know I I’ve I’ve instituted a new rule Lopez I declared it already you’re people are going to get tired to hear me say it there will be no ceilings put on Victor wanyama none not right now maybe at some point year three or four I’ll I but like somebody says no he’s going to average 40 30 and 17 I’m be like well I have a rule No Ceilings No [Laughter] Ceilings uh all right well thanks guys for spending some of your holiday weekend with us uh thank you to Jackson our producer who’s doing the same we’ll be back with you on Monday more on our regular schedule with uh the Tims Bon Temps is out in La I’m sorry he’s out in uh Vegas today for uh Team USA their players are reporting today on Friday and we’ll meet the media on Saturday so there’ll be a lot of stuff to talk about by Sunday um and McMahon will be you know doing McMahon things uh okay thank you for listening watching who Collective we’ll talk to you soon

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN’s Andrew Lopez and Ohm Youngmisuk to break down where the Clippers go from here after losing Paul George, how the Pelicans can get a center & how best to fill out their roster going forward, how the Nuggets can replace Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, if Russ fits in Denver, if Chris Paul makes the Spurs a playoff team and more!

0:00 Welcome back to The Hoop Collective
1:15 What’s next for the Clippers?
14:44 Next moves for New Orleans
40:48 Denver solutions to loss of KCP
46:27 Expectations for Spurs with CP3
56:23 Thanks for watching!

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