Miami Heat: Caleb Martin is a 76er…. for less | Five on the Floor

Miami Heat: Caleb Martin is a 76er…. for less | Five on the Floor

welcome ladies episode five on the floor in the five reason Sports Network thanks for joining us on your favorite podcast app on Apple Apple podcast on Android Spotify or the five reasion YouTube channel also why are you not subscribed to off the floor yet why are you waiting for me and Greg and others to be aggregated improperly get the information right away it’s right there on the host updates and as well as I tell you that chat with Heat fans I mean like at like 5:13 in the morning guys get some sleep uh check it out link is right there in the description on the podcast also on the YouTube channel $2.99 per month once you’re there we promise you you won’t leave also check out the great sponsors of the five reason Sports Network we’ve got a new sponsor this episode is sponsored by Valve Valene Instant Oil Change with oil changes complete in about 15 minutes maintaining your vehicle is just a quick stop on the way to your summer destinations here are five reasons we can offer you a 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here’s today’s floor plan I got Alex Leo can follow him at Tropical blanket I got Greg slander you can follow him at Greg slander check out the episode I did with Brady Hawk getting you ready for summer league also he let me rant for about 10 minutes about aggregation I think I said okay 35 times during that that’s a when I’m upset that’s like a what does he call that that’s like a verbal tick um that’s something that I do a little bit anyway not upset today uh Caleb Martin is a Philadelphia 76er if you have been following us you knew that this was likely going to happen we’ve been telegraphing this Greg actually posted on the Discord uh the day before and of course if you listened to our episode where I told you it it’s called what’s really happening with the Miami Heat you kind of knew that this was the course that was this was going to take uh according to reports what is the report and I’m going to explain why this wasn’t posted in a tweet uh by the national news Breakers uh he received what four years 32 million is that right from Philadelphia is that the report that’s correct okay all right this is a simple situation his agent effed up okay um and we told you in the episode the other day that that’s what was going on here um this is not an inexperienced agent uh this is an agent who at one point had Kevin Garnett actually won a lawsuit because of the circumstances of Garnett’s departure from him you can actually look it up it’s written about in The New York Times uh he’s not an inexperienced agent he does not have a lot of clients now though he does have the Martin Brothers okay so I’m going to take you through this again some of what was happening before just to refresh people’s memories and then we will get through what it actually means for the Heat and whether or not Heat fans should be upset about anything because I see the goalpost goalposts are being moved by some on Twitter okay all right Caleb Morton wanted to remain a member of the miam heat um not only did he tell me that flat out late last season in the playoffs he told others that um and also uh they went to the heat to resign okay the Miami Heat had him on a $7.1 million player option for this upcoming season if korton had opted in the heat were allowed okay not to rip up the 7.1 okay that would have stood but they were allowed to extend him four years beyond that all right starting at a 40% raise for the second year with 8% raises thereafter all right so if you do a little of the math you could have gotten upwards of five years $65 million for the total package including the 7.1 million of the first year so essentially four for 58 after that okay now I don’t have it 100% that they actually offered that but I believe they offered that or something close that’s my understanding okay I know others are reported it was actually offered I don’t know if they’re reporting that based on knowledge or based on assumption but I’ll just leave it at I I know that the heat made a significant offer to keep him they told his agent and I said this the other day they said we can only offer this now okay only if he off opts in because once he opts out hey we can’t offer him the same deal anyway and also we have to move on to other business there’s other things that we need to do all right and I know he say well they haven’t done anything no it changed once he opted out okay and I can tell you this okay they told him don’t come back and ask for the same thing it’s not going to be there all right I was told that the agent came back and asked for the same thing and they were like we can’t do it okay we can’t do it so there were other options here okay there were other options if he really wanted to return and if the agent had accepted it all right first thing my understanding is that if the agent had come back and asked for the same thing that he got from Philadelphia the heat could have slightly beat it and likely would have even though they are waiting for somebody else to drop because right now the heat are roughly $7 million under the second apron which they’re not going to go over for the first year but again that’s the first year okay so with raises they could have gotten to you know roughly four four years $32 million um but here’s the other thing there’s no state tax here and there’s no city tax there’s city tax in Philadelphia too so Caleb’s likely gonna pay both so Miami could have even the deal that he got from Philadelphia even now they could have beaten that here’s the other option that they had okay he he could have taken a one inone deal from the heat kept his bird rights with the heat and then got paid over the top of that after the TV deal kicked in because again there’s going to be an increase with the television deal and that increases the thresholds for the tax apron second apron Etc I don’t know okay and now we can argue about certain things that he did there there are two arguments that can be made one is people can say they never should have offered him that contract in the first place Caleb coming off of that season with the knee issues that he had may not have been worth what the he’ offered him originally that’s one argument that you could conceivably had the other argument you can have is well they should have traded him at the deadline last year they should have recoup something for the asset by the way you can’t have both of those arguments at the same time okay you can’t say uh that they were paying him too much no okay look you have to pick one all right but essentially you can have those arguments you cannot argue that the heat low balled Caleb Martin okay so on the subject of them being cheap in this case you actually could make the argument that they were a little bit too kind I guess on this to offer a player that they developed who was given to them by Jay Cole who they didn’t really expect to be a rotation player who started on a two-way and to end up offering him that kind of money I like Caleb as a player I really like Caleb as a person I’m just saying that’s an argument that you can make Greg that maybe they shouldn’t have gone so far out there for Caleb but to make an argument that they that they fumbled by him not accepting what essentially came to twice as much money this is an agent fup and this is what I was talking about the other day about how some agents it’s not just this one by the way some agents don’t seem to understand the CBA somehow they got aggregated as me saying that the heat don’t understand the CBA they literally try to explain the CBA to the representation in this case the representation apparently either didn’t listen didn’t grasp it I don’t know and his client is now making half as much money as he could have made great uh I’d say a couple there’s a couple things that need we need to unpack here one is that Caleb Martin got some bad advice and that sucks for him because it appears as if he limited his options versus what they thought the market was going to be for him so that’s tough but I have mixed feelings also that when you think about I guess team building and just like what what the heat the heat are getting worse th this off season they haven’t gotten better and Caleb Martin going to an Eastern Conference rival is not the greatest thing either so when you just think about it in the context of straight basketball if fans are throwing the financial stuff out the window it’s it’s a tough pill to swallow to see him go to what you consider to be a rival now don’t I don’t know maybe it’s not legitimate to call them Rivals at this current moment I don’t know we’ll have to see how it plays out but uh I think that he dodged a bullet frankly that Caleb didn’t take that deal and they’ll be better off for it in the long run that they didn’t offer him what would have equated to five years uh they probably are better off not having that contract on the books going forward even though it would have been what looked like a modest number compared to what he was expected to get when free agent he started and the Rumor Mill was churning what do you think did they Dodge a because I there’s going to be a comparison Alex to um the Anthony Carter thing where the heat made an offer uh to Anthony Carter I think and it seemed like a lot of the time it’s like three years1 million I think uh for him to be the starting point guard I can’t believe his son was just drafted I actually took a picture with AC and at the draft and it just makes me feel super old um but uh they again the bill Duffy who’s a very experienced agent um now considered one of the better agents uh he actually there was a fax issue something wasn’t faxed in this is how long ago this was and of course that contract getting voided led to Shaq uh coming to the Heat and even further back this wasn’t an agent issue but this was a heat cap management issue where Johan Howard was signed in the wrong order and so the the league took him away and he ended up uh adding Dan Marley who probably was a better fit and doing some other things probably better fit for those zo Tim teams uh than Jawan might have been um but Alice will we look back at this as they dodged a bullet I mean would youve been in favor of five years $65 million it’s really four for 58 but for a team that is pressed up against the second apron is debating whether to give Jimmy Butler a Max extension I it’s a lot is it it is and it and it really surprised me not only hearing it now but when you first you know reported it on our Discord server earlier this week just the fact that they would be you know willing to give him a big multi-year offer like that because it wasn’t just like a bloated short-term offer like that’s kind of what I thought they were going to try to do right because it’s not like he’s older or anything he’s he’s about to be done but he he he declined a little bit this year and has you know the KNE tendonosis and and you know I I think you know those are the types of things that prevent you from offering those big multi-year deals and that’s exactly what they did I’ve you know I’ve spent so much of the Season before the trade deadline talking about if you are not gonna resign Caleb trade him and that doesn’t even mean for a second round pick or two or whatever I I just thought like you know if they really thought he was going to have a mid-level market which is what his Camp thought he was going to have and was going to look for you know either resign him or trade they attempted to resign him and you know I guess around February whenever they made that value assessment they decided you know whatever they could get in return for Caleb wasn’t going to be worth it to you know hinge on their playoff run and and and yes like he was worse um but the guy had just come off of an insane run in the playoffs where he was a big value ad you know was MVP runner up in the Conference Finals so I think you know now after the season is over after the season having ended we can see it a little bit more clearly but we were just a few months removed from that run which was insane so it was more reasonable you know after that run for them to think or for for him and his Camp to think that they were going to get that but now it’s like you know I do think they kind of dodged the bullet there from that offer I think if they would have been able to kind of circle back and you know offer him around 30 million for three or four years I think that would have been much easier for Heat fans to swallow even though it’s that’s still kind of a long-term deal um but he is only 28 it’s not like you know he’s he’s nearing the mid-30s or anything regardless I want to give you know respect to what Caleb did right shouting out everything he’s done in the playoffs I do think it seems like they wanted to generate another quote unquote tradeable contract with you know an something like this with a proposed offer like this where you’re going to have you know a contract that’s in the teens that is easier to trade than you know the only contract that they have right now on the teams being Duncan Robinson who is just essential to what they do on offense so I just like they prefer that I guess over having to just replace him with a minimum contract that’s that’s my read on all of this and then my other immediate reaction is I think they’re just going to give Haywood that money you know I think they’re going to give him around four years 30 mil I think that’s what they’re going to Pivot to they need wing and perimeter defense he offers both in one player right and they just lost a couple of the other guys who were getting you know helped off of and left open in Caleb and donon so it kind of take some of the heat off of him right because it’s you know he he’ll be one of the only ones now that’ll be left open but as far as the Caleb Saga it sucks for for Heat fans and for me because of my history but um you know just him ending up on the Sixers I don’t think it’s something to be upset with the heat about if you want to be upset about them offering the 65 mil in the first place that’s a different story right but it is what it is man it’s unfortunate for him right I think I I kind of feel for him here just because you know he lost half the damn contract because of some you know stupid stuff right and here we are the heat you know have essentially replaced him with Alec Burks and a couple of rookies and are hoping to get Haywood back and that’s pretty much the offseason at this point all right so I I want to address a couple of things uh here first gr Greg you’re you’re right I mean the team has not gotten better this offseason so far I I I mean we’re talking about summer league today we’ll see what Larson and wear and others can add this year we may look back and say they did get better because of yovic and hak’s Improvement and some of the young guys they brought in with maybe higher upsides but right now on paper it doesn’t look like they got better right okay so I mean we just have to be honest about that but a couple things on this the one idea first thing I think we all agree not to trade Caleb at the deadline because Caleb came out of the All-Star break on fire from three um he was play he was playing better and and also I there’s just a lot of revision his history here Heat fans wanted the heat to do something to push forward at the trade deadline they would did not want them to get worse that was not I you were not hearing a lot of that small minority okay but the majority of Heat fans that we deal with were like they need to make a move to compete now this year Jimmy’s window give Jimmy a chance etc etc I mean who knew okay that Jimmy was going to get hurt in the playin game or that the heat would fumble down the stretch the way they did and lose that game in Indiana and all the rest of that but people wanted the Rosier trade they wanted something they wanted them to keep Martin now if they had traded Caleb for you know a 2032 second round pick you know at the trade deadline and like roster filler okay on on expiring Heat fans would have been Furious that’s the first thing the majority of them all right so this idea again of picking up assets here’s the other part of this right I I’ve been hearing for the last seven eight years that they have they can’t fall in love with their own developed players and now I’ve got this list and I you know there’s uh you know go some guy I follow here on Twitter but like I’ll see if I can find the exact tweet um going through the list of guys they’ve lost the last two seasons and I’m just like I thought these were the guys you don’t want to pay like this is what this is what I kept hearing and now you know again it’s it’s we’re talking about Gabe and Max I mean they were nowhere in the ballpark for Max I mean that I mean that’s say anything else is total uh you know revision is history at this point and and Gabe I mean they made Gabe a competitive offer it wasn’t what he wanted he ended up you know again they offered him one more year I mean this one uh this this comes in from uh at busy Gabe who I follow him he’s usually fairly reason stuff he said I backed this front office 100% Pat Ry is the best thing to happened in South Florida Sports in my lifetime but to lose Matt stru gave Vincent G K Martin potentially heith for nothing is perhaps the most maybe the most asinine atrocious mindboggling thing the he have ever done I mean first thing they haven’t lost heith yet all right I I tend to agree that I I think ultimately uh he’s gonna be back I I that’s what this seems to be pushing towards that you know the because I was told SPO has some say in this one and I I think for exactly the reason and Brady’s talked about this too like spone needs like Wing Defenders like that he’s for I mean the way he’s going to run his defense he needs guys who can guard on the perimeter and the wings and they don’t have anybody they just don’t like they I mean the I mean they didn’t keep Delan uh and I I don’t think I mean what we saw from Josh the last two months last season I’m not counting on that I mean I think Josh can be an effective scorer in a small role um he showed that a little bit last year but I mean I he’s in his 30s now too um and but again stru if they had paid Max and I like Max okay if they had paid Max what Cleveland had paid Max everybody would say was the Duncan thing all over again all right Gabe not his fault but I mean did you see last season okay um it is interesting that they they opted to offer Caleb an extra two year Well actually no an extra one year than you know what they offered gave the summer before and not just an extra year but like considerably more money considering you know that like what I mentioned before what Caleb was going through with his injuries and again I’ve been a proponent of Caleb for these past couple of years I did not want to see him gone I just thought it was really interesting and just surprising I wasn’t expecting that big of an offer from the heat because of what you’re talking about that they just kind of tended to like be okay with letting these guys get paid and just kind of replacing them you know by the margins and relying on their development program to to you know figure out the rest there so I I like what separated Caleb considering his circumstances because I think we saw I think we saw the Caleb’s upside uh we saw Caleb’s upside in the Eastern Conference Finals and I I think that the the versatility and athleticism that he offered you was something that the roster is missing or has been missing now it does appear that they they’re trying to address that uh they tried to address it in the draft with we uh with Larson and also with the kashad joh Johnson signing so and and also Alis Williams I think is someone who has a chance to to move up here so you’re looking at at least four players and I some include Sider I don’t okay obviously he’s more of a shooter um is Kad Johnson the Caleb replacement I I mean maybe I mean maybe I don’t think it’s Kane so I I it feels like maybe it is and I that that’s the thing so it’s not like they didn’t sort of prep themselves in some way also look I’m assuming that hz’s minutes are going up not not down and so some of there there was I I know they looked pretty good together at times and Nico but I know with hakz they looked pretty good together at times him and Caleb but there was duplication there um particularly if you’re playing with Jimmy remember they were going those Jimmy plus the wing lineups um for a period of time I I I think that honestly getting some of these guys out of the way a hakz probably will allow him to develop best and I I do think that hae’s up side probably is higher than Caleb’s although again we saw it in the Eastern Conference Finals so I but again I liked him as a player um I I he I know he wanted to stay I know they wanted obviously they wanted to keep him they valued him and this is not like people say oh the he are just putting this out after the fact you know to cover themselves from not I’m telling you I was giving you the play-by-play on this the whole way of what they were doing and what they were planning to do and and prepared to do and it just seems like in this particular case the representation did not listen to them because one of the things that I heard and we’ll get to an ad and then we’ll close this thing up but uh one of the things that I heard was the heat wanted to make sure that Caleb understood what they were trying to do and this is a problem a lot of times okay with with agents um is that sometimes the message gets translated a different way like they wanted him to know they valued him and I I think they read the market properly this time like they read it like they didn’t think Caleb on the market was going to get what Caleb’s agent Caleb he didn’t is Cale the reports out there originally were like 13 million a year then there were other reports that said that they were looking for 15 million a year he got eight a year the he why I think High Smith is gonna come in way under what people expect as well I I think that I think heywood’s gonna come in in that five million range for the heat I think I I’m not don’t aggregate that because it’s not a report that’s just a hunch I I I have the same kind of hunch it feels like again there’s a need for him I don’t think anybody’s going to fall to the heat like we were talking about okay they were holding it open for D rozan or something like that doesn’t look like that’s going to happen um could they re-explore sign and trades for D rozan I guess I I did say they did call Chicago about a sign and trade uh we told that sha didn’t want the contracts now if that draag thing drags out and he doesn’t end up in Sacramento necessarily then I guess the heat could step into that if they wanted to but again you got to give them a three-year deal are you prepared to give d rozan a three-year deal hold on you can offer it there there’s something I think it’s already happened in this free agency too um you can do it as a three-year deal but if you really wanted to you can make the last two years non-g guaranteed it just happened recently I can’t remember who it was right now and someone had pointed that out um so they can be creative and or maybe they do you know two years guaranteed one year non- guaranteed I would say they they probably prefer to do one guaranteed year and then just tie it to Jimmy if they were in on this whole idea but that is possible okay well let’s see I I I don’t think it’s happening I think yeah I think the most likely scenario is that it’s going to be Haywood and then he fans are going to say we’re running it back worse right hard to argue it’s hard to argue at this point I mean this is where we’re at and then right and then it’s but then if um uh then but then if we end up with a situation where these rookies really pop and sum league and I want to talk about that on the other side quickly one thing you guys are each looking forward to the most for summer league that may change the perception here a little bit it might okay because I I think this is their best this looks to me like their best summer league team on paper other than the nun um Duncan hero team uh from Tyler’s rookie year that to me that was that that that team was really good uh and I think this is going to be similar in terms of what they this is an interesting team that they put put together like last year’s I was not all in on uh and then the one that Haywood was the best player on and they were trying to feature Haywood no that was not a good summer league team they they got a squad this time uh with high upside guys I think it’s goingon to be interesting uh to watch or before we do I want to mention a great sponsor of the five sports network our friends over at Water cleanup water cleanup of Florida Michael Robert and his entire team you can find him at wcu.com get the preventative maintenance you see what the floodings like here in Fort Lauderdale yeah okay make sure you don’t have a leak uh that’ll make things worse I don’t know anything about this stuff but I do know that okay more water if you’re letting water in more water’s going to get in right is that how that works also they’ll do the damage assessment for you after the fact reach out uh with you to the insurance company make sure everything is handled so again reach out to them bo uh they’re in Boer at home but they serveice the entire Tri County Area as we always say about water cleanup of Florida if you’ve got the schots they got the guts all right um what are you looking most forward to Alex in the summer league oh man I was just going to pick from whatever you guys didn’t pick so let me switch up my strategy now um I guess if I’m just choosing between where Larson and kashad because those that was really what was coming into mind for me where’s got to be number one like it’s just got to be you know you invested a first round pick into him Adam Simon immediately started getting Heat fans riled up when he called him a three and D Center to start out you know his uh media availability and it’s like you know just falling right into what everybody wants to hear so I expect it to be you know um demonstrated I I don’t expect him to be you know a three and D big year one in the regular season um but if you’re talking about summer league you got to show off what he can do I think he shows off some of the post game where where he just you know has a tendency to get to um you know closer to the end of a shot clock I think he’s going to be used as screen and roll big but I want to see him Pop I want to see him space every now and then I don’t I don’t want to see him just planted next to the the Rim at all times right because of course you do want him to be a lob threat I’m not advocating for him to only be sitting as a spacer but I like the idea with him is that he is able to you know give you both of these things the the lob threat and somebody who could potentially space so I want to see those things showed off I want to see the athleticism and I’m very um curious to see just how he moves right because I saw some people said that they you know like some of the clips that the heat were putting out uh of their practice that he looks kind of slow and I just think in general that’s like what you want to see from a seven-footer right like you want to see how well they move on the court and I think you know he was described as a fluid athlete who can move pretty well for a big so I want to see that and yeah I just want to see the the full athletic capability there since he’s such a different type of heat pick for me I want to see the Arizona Duo P Larson Kad Johnson I think those are two names to watch along with Zion pulling um those are like the the guys to hone in on here I think that the heat SE something in these players so I’m interested to watch I do think this is one of their stronger summer league teams with a bunch of guys that have the opportunity to find their place onto the roster in some way shape or form whether it be on a two-way or on a standard deal uh so there’s there’s a reason for Heat fans to plug into Summer League this year because a lot of these guys I think are going to have the opportunity to try to um contribute particularly lson I mean I think that he there’s no reason that he can’t slot right in and find way into some playing time uh but this is where it all starts so I’m interested to see if maybe he gets featured a bit and then kashad Johnson is uh I don’t know maybe they’re gonna find the next PJ Tucker but at the right moment in time early on and uh that would be a great move um if he you know can pan out in that form so we’ll see yeah I obviously those guys are are this headl headline guys I want to see what ales Williams can do um you know they’re were I you’re talking about a guy who really popped in the g- League last year and has this and he’s got like a little I he’s got like a little Aura to his game he’s got he’s got there’s a little extra no a little extra I don’t maybe I use the word r word but there’s a little extra to his game like there there’s there’s the athleticism I like the finishing um I want to see what develop don’t aggregate that I want to see uh I I want to see what they have there because it’s it I it feels me maybe they’ll tell me I’m wrong it feels me like he snuck up on them a little bit um that they they started to kind of ride the train a little bit last year and then sign of guards right after right so that’s why I want to see what they really think of him and we’ll see how much he gets featured um this time around and uh and what that looks like all right so that’s our episode for today we’ll be back to recap summer league and all the rest of that make sure you download the playback app playback. tvsn and just gonna be on today at 6:30 uh I’ll be on there at some point yes playback at 6:30 yes this will be up before that so check it out have a good one everybody thank you for listening to the five on the floor on the Fire Ring Sports Network after all someone needs to listen to my dad

After Caleb Martin signed with the Philadelphia 76ers, Ethan Skolnick details why he ended up with a lesser deal after turning down what the Miami Heat offered. Greg and Alex also host, and they all preview summer league, which starts tonight.

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