Ya I have a hard time seeing Cam getting more minutes than McBride. McBride is the better shooter and defender all Cam has is his plamaking
cesarjulius
if this is true, deuce is buried. zero minutes. divo is going to get every single second as the 2 when mikal is out, as he should. if deuce plays pg only, and only when jb sits, that’s like 10 minutes. thibs is not splitting up those 10 minutes, based on everything we’ve seen from him. if payne is in, deuce is fully out, and anyone who thinks kolek starts the year in the rotation with our current roster is very confused.
everything points to a trade coming, or one of payne or mcbride getting completely iced out.
abasoglu
I think this is not true. Thibs will play whoever he thinks will win him the game. I’d be surprised if that was consistently Cam Payne over McBride because McBride can defend better.
TheyCalledHimMrJ
Horeshit. Please name me these other teams that were promising cam Payne significant run.
Sparrow_Wilson
This most likely points towards Deuce being traded for a center. I know it’s a business but it must be weird for Deuce knowing that Hartenstein leaving might directly lead to him being traded
Abradolf_Lincler_50
They have said multiple times they see McBride playing off the ball more. There’s no reason right now to think that they won’t play together for stretches, but Cam brings more traditional point guard play and a veteran presence to the bench. I think with all the depth they’ve added, the plan should be to get JB longer stretches of the season where he isn’t playing 40 minutes a night. It’s a long season, ankles get rolled, hamstrings pulled, having pg depth will only help us. I trust Thibs to roll with the hot hand game to game with the bench.
SuperMondo
Can’t believe I gotta watch this guy’s terrible shot more than Deuce
benevenstancian0
All this assumes we have zero injuries. As guys get hurt and minutes get moved to accommodate rest, it is advantageous to be in a spot where we don’t depend on a rookie like Kolek to run the 2nd unit.
Not-Josh-Hart
I love Deuce but the second unit needs a playmaker. Are y’all forgetting the times when Deuce would dribble himself into a corner and Hart would get visibly frustrated on the other side of the court?
With Donte and Hart we have an embarrassment of riches and Deuce is expendable.
charlesfluidsmith
Cam is a better point guard, and he is a very smart basketball player, he’s also a good penetrator, which Thibs loves in point guards.
I said when we acquired him, this guy would play.
I understand it’s not confirmed, but it seemed pretty obvious to me.
ezquiet
Disclaimer. I have too much time on my hands and Deuce is one of my favorite players. So apologies in advance as I’m over analyzing every mailbag update.
He anticipates that Cam Payne will get significant minutes running the 2nd unit. He mentions bench unit would include Hart, DiVicenzo, and ‘maybe’ McBride. If Ian is right, we need to recalibrate that Cam Payne was not brought on to ride the bench.
He reiterates Knicks like McBride and view him as an off ball guard but acknowledges Knicks are seeking a center and if it’s via trade he wonders about McBride.
MadSpaceYT
They are probably playing side by side
Struggle2Real
I *guess* the calculus is that Duece is the 4th guard, his minutes are going to get squeezed, they’re unwilling to compromise on 48 minutes of traditional Center play and they need a longer term answer at C with Meech’s deal set to expire.
Smells like Kessler. Whatever.
drewcarey69
I think if anything is certain this year it’s that lineups are gonna get kinda funky and probably even moreso once injuries pop up.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of both separately and maybe even a little time on court together
22pabloesco22
Thibs needs some time to figure out rotations. Useless talking about all this right now.
snamm
This guy knows nothing
JustHereForPka
I don’t think we’ll see a full bench unit out there much. I think we get a lot of Divo+OG minutes mixed with Mikal+Hart minutes.
Tradeandworkout
Cam and McBride will play well together. By mid-season Mitch will be with the second unit, so Hart, Deuce, DDV and Payne will play and shoot the lights out. Hart on the floor covers the lack of size at Forward, Payne’s ability to drive and kick will be lethal. Very underrated pickup. We forget how bad this team was when Brunson went out.
If Rangle gets staggered with Brunson, and with both DDV and Hart having moments iniating offense last year, our bench is one of the best in the league.
McBride shooting and D will keep him on the floor, but what a luxury we have with an experienced orchestrated with great speed to plug in if that second unit struggles getting into sets.
NutsyFlamingo
I hear ya, but it’s July… I’ve watched enough basketball to know these things work themselves out.
SloDown4What
Miles McBride might be trade bait for a big fisher
dconnorp
Why does this sub micromanage every little thing? Just let the season happen.
Correct-Local3240
How are we already judging mins without seeing the man in a knicks jersey 😂
Manakanda413
Nah this won’t happen. Based on the tibbs history, that second unit will be Simms (or whichever backup center) Ragu, McBride, kolek, and Payne or Hart, because you’re gonna see hart in the starting rotation and the stay-in for second squad. I could be wrong but dude loves to use back up squad to eat minutes passing the ball around and playing D to preserve/slowly lose the leads. Passers passers passers.
BigHornStareDown
Mcbride is looking more like the off ball guard , they can play together
sillyshoestring
There will be more than enough minutes to go around. Why even bother to reacting to news like this when undoubtedly one month into the season the rotation will be something no one expects?
Soggy_muffins55
It confuses me as to why they can’t just play together, or play seperately but still get minutes. It’s not like the nba works where the starters all play together and then the bench all plays together, McBride and Payne will both get minutes w the other 7 rotations players and each other aside from Payne and Brunson together id imagine.
The Knicks have 3 guys who can realistically play 2 thru 4 w Mikal, og, and hart, and divo can play a small ball 3 which he did sometimes w Brunson and McBride. I’m sure it will be much of the same and minutes will go around
daznccc
I fully expect them to play together with Deuce being off ball
TeamPizza21
All this means is that Deuce is getting traded by the deadline
Full-Veterinarian-94
Brother with all due respect Thibs knows more than you. Whatever he decides to do with his rotation is likely the right move.
AxhaICY
This was obvious the second he signed with us. He wasn’t gonna sign for us on the min to play 3rd string minutes lol
Distinct-Pangolin112
Minutes are already going to be reduced for him and possibly DDV. I feel a trade coming. You can only play so many players…
S1LVERSTAK
These dilemmas we’ve created at the PG position need to be created at the Center position. I’m not comfortable going a full season with just Mitch and Sims.
DizzyFrogHS
Let’s wait and see what actually happens. They aren’t locked into a particular game plan before the season begins. Thibs will play whichever lineup ends up performing best. If Deuce is better, he will play more. If Cam is better, he will play more. If they are better together, they will play together.
shanballs
Classic Begley. Always “I think…” and not real substance.
biinroii01
well if josh hart is playing the 4 like normal it could work out fine
cam
mcbride
divo
hart
precious
Distinct-Pangolin112
Payne is only a 1 year deal. To get rid of Duece in favor of Payne is not the way unless they feel Tyler is ready to go. I know Thibs doesn’t like to play players that aren’t good on defense but this is how I’m looking at it. Maybe they feel if they surround him with solid defenders like they did Bogi his defense won’t look so bad. But Bogi is a SF/PF so it was easier to hide his flaws than a PG that isn’t good on defense. And even Bogi played okay defense at times when he was on the floor with good defenders…
HipnotiK1
They’re different players. I support the idea of a 9 or 10 man rotation in which they both get some minutes. Depending on matchups and performance the minutes can adjust.
heliumointment
hate to say it but it could also mean the brass is shopping deuce. he’s super serviceable and if you package him with precious and picks you could feasibly get a decent backup 5.
mattbrianjess
It boils down to whether Mcbride’s 3pt shooting last year was a mirage career year season or is his new ability. He was 45/41/86 last year. That is really fucking good. His 3pt% went up 11pts his ft% went up 20pts and his fg% went up 8pts. **All that on** ***almost double*** **the attempts.** Talk about a glow up.
If he is now a good point of attack defender who is a 40% 3point shooter but who probably needs to play next to a primary ball handler I promise all of you there is not need to worry about his playing time. Every team in the league finds minutes for that guy. (And would like to trade for him)
And quite frankly, if he reverts to being a sub 30% 3pt shooter who is a good point of attack defender but who needs to play next to a primary ball handler you won’t care about his playing time because other folks will out compete him for minutes.
nazrmo78
I literally do not know what people are watching when it comes to McBride Positives- he is a good defender and can score now, albeit off ball facilitated by someone else Negatives – he can’t create fir himself or others and does almost nothing off the dribble
Essentially, he’s a 6’1 SG. Most people’s best memories of Deuce come in lineups where there’s another PG on the court with him, or in some cases, the SG has more of the ability to create and handle the ball than he does. I mean, perhaps off the bench if paired with DVC, you could put DVC on ball and keep Deuce I motion, or same with Brunson.
We now have about 4 guys who would be better options at the wing and then at guard the teams C b bb best player on the team is ahead of him, then DVC. And this is before talking about Cam and the rookies, both of which I’d give McBride some respect over but probably would develop into better options at PG. If you wanna keep Deuce fine but I don’t think he’s better than Payne at all and idk where people are getting that from. Playoff seasoned and started in the finals. Can actually dribble a basketball and create offense for himself. Nothing close to a pure PG either but you give Jalen a rest and you’re not sweating like you can’t create offense. Last yr the knicks were something like 20pts worse per 100 possessions with Jalen off the floor. Now granted, some of that is because we lose his scoring but a big part is there’s no body to organize the offense and Deuce does not solve fir this. Cam can.
Meanwhile, on a sidenote, our biggest hole is at C, where our starter plays no more than 60 games, and we haven’t found a suitable backup. And Deuce has become the thing holding us up in deals? What are we thinking? So for me, Cam BETTER be the guy who allows us to trade Deuce for a position of need. McBride isn’t that good
nazrmo78
I literally do not know what people are watching when it comes to McBride Positives- he is a good defender and can score now, albeit off ball facilitated by someone else Negatives – he can’t create fir himself or others and does almost nothing off the dribble
Essentially, he’s a 6’1 SG. Most people’s best memories of Deuce come in lineups where there’s another PG on the court with him, or in some cases, the SG has more of the ability to create and handle the ball than he does. I mean, perhaps off the bench if paired with DVC, you could put DVC on ball and keep Deuce I motion, or same with Brunson.
We now have about 4 guys who would be better options at the wing and then at guard the teams C b bb best player on the team is ahead of him, then DVC. And this is before talking about Cam and the rookies, both of which I’d give McBride some respect over but probably would develop into better options at PG. If you wanna keep Deuce fine but I don’t think he’s better than Payne at all and idk where people are getting that from. Playoff seasoned and started in the finals. Can actually dribble a basketball and create offense for himself. Nothing close to a pure PG either but you give Jalen a rest and you’re not sweating like you can’t create offense. Last yr the knicks were something like 20pts worse per 100 possessions with Jalen off the floor. Now granted, some of that is because we lose his scoring but a big part is there’s no body to organize the offense and Deuce does not solve fir this. Cam can.
Meanwhile, on a sidenote, our biggest hole is at C, where our starter plays no more than 60 games, and we haven’t found a suitable backup. And Deuce has become the thing holding us up in deals? What are we thinking? So for me, Cam BETTER be the guy who allows us to trade Deuce for a position of need. McBride isn’t that good
mobkon22
I really hope Kolek isn’t thrown at the end of the bench. I know he still has a lot to prove in the big leagues, but this dude has an IQ well above most PGs in the league.
justsomedude4202
Man plans, God laughs.
daznccc
What 🛎️🔚 is downvoting people.
Dsod23
He’s gonna play 15-20 mins and around 60 games or so that is his usual usage rate. Brunson is gonna play 33-35 mins at PG. McBride is still going to get his playing time bc he can play off the ball as well.
hyborians
Cam can shoot. Deuce has gotta up his game. It’s a competition.
46 Comments
Ya I have a hard time seeing Cam getting more minutes than McBride. McBride is the better shooter and defender all Cam has is his plamaking
if this is true, deuce is buried. zero minutes. divo is going to get every single second as the 2 when mikal is out, as he should. if deuce plays pg only, and only when jb sits, that’s like 10 minutes. thibs is not splitting up those 10 minutes, based on everything we’ve seen from him. if payne is in, deuce is fully out, and anyone who thinks kolek starts the year in the rotation with our current roster is very confused.
everything points to a trade coming, or one of payne or mcbride getting completely iced out.
I think this is not true. Thibs will play whoever he thinks will win him the game. I’d be surprised if that was consistently Cam Payne over McBride because McBride can defend better.
Horeshit. Please name me these other teams that were promising cam Payne significant run.
This most likely points towards Deuce being traded for a center. I know it’s a business but it must be weird for Deuce knowing that Hartenstein leaving might directly lead to him being traded
They have said multiple times they see McBride playing off the ball more. There’s no reason right now to think that they won’t play together for stretches, but Cam brings more traditional point guard play and a veteran presence to the bench. I think with all the depth they’ve added, the plan should be to get JB longer stretches of the season where he isn’t playing 40 minutes a night. It’s a long season, ankles get rolled, hamstrings pulled, having pg depth will only help us. I trust Thibs to roll with the hot hand game to game with the bench.
Can’t believe I gotta watch this guy’s terrible shot more than Deuce
All this assumes we have zero injuries. As guys get hurt and minutes get moved to accommodate rest, it is advantageous to be in a spot where we don’t depend on a rookie like Kolek to run the 2nd unit.
I love Deuce but the second unit needs a playmaker. Are y’all forgetting the times when Deuce would dribble himself into a corner and Hart would get visibly frustrated on the other side of the court?
With Donte and Hart we have an embarrassment of riches and Deuce is expendable.
Cam is a better point guard, and he is a very smart basketball player, he’s also a good penetrator, which Thibs loves in point guards.
I said when we acquired him, this guy would play.
I understand it’s not confirmed, but it seemed pretty obvious to me.
Disclaimer. I have too much time on my hands and Deuce is one of my favorite players. So apologies in advance as I’m over analyzing every mailbag update.
Following Ian Begley last two updates.
7/18 – @4:52
[Cam Payne playing time comment](https://youtu.be/nrPlEK485Q4?si=kpwtkkoGPl2UM14W)
He anticipates that Cam Payne will get significant minutes running the 2nd unit. He mentions bench unit would include Hart, DiVicenzo, and ‘maybe’ McBride. If Ian is right, we need to recalibrate that Cam Payne was not brought on to ride the bench.
7/19 – @2:05
[Begley wonders about McBride comment](https://youtu.be/a75ex8LpJuM?si=sute46UIfah7NLYv)
He reiterates Knicks like McBride and view him as an off ball guard but acknowledges Knicks are seeking a center and if it’s via trade he wonders about McBride.
They are probably playing side by side
I *guess* the calculus is that Duece is the 4th guard, his minutes are going to get squeezed, they’re unwilling to compromise on 48 minutes of traditional Center play and they need a longer term answer at C with Meech’s deal set to expire.
Smells like Kessler.
Whatever.
I think if anything is certain this year it’s that lineups are gonna get kinda funky and probably even moreso once injuries pop up.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of both separately and maybe even a little time on court together
Thibs needs some time to figure out rotations. Useless talking about all this right now.
This guy knows nothing
I don’t think we’ll see a full bench unit out there much. I think we get a lot of Divo+OG minutes mixed with Mikal+Hart minutes.
Cam and McBride will play well together. By mid-season Mitch will be with the second unit, so Hart, Deuce, DDV and Payne will play and shoot the lights out. Hart on the floor covers the lack of size at Forward, Payne’s ability to drive and kick will be lethal. Very underrated pickup. We forget how bad this team was when Brunson went out.
If Rangle gets staggered with Brunson, and with both DDV and Hart having moments iniating offense last year, our bench is one of the best in the league.
McBride shooting and D will keep him on the floor, but what a luxury we have with an experienced orchestrated with great speed to plug in if that second unit struggles getting into sets.
I hear ya, but it’s July… I’ve watched enough basketball to know these things work themselves out.
Miles McBride might be trade bait for a big fisher
Why does this sub micromanage every little thing? Just let the season happen.
How are we already judging mins without seeing the man in a knicks jersey 😂
Nah this won’t happen. Based on the tibbs history, that second unit will be Simms (or whichever backup center)
Ragu, McBride, kolek, and Payne or Hart, because you’re gonna see hart in the starting rotation and the stay-in for second squad. I could be wrong but dude loves to use back up squad to eat minutes passing the ball around and playing D to preserve/slowly lose the leads. Passers passers passers.
Mcbride is looking more like the off ball guard , they can play together
There will be more than enough minutes to go around. Why even bother to reacting to news like this when undoubtedly one month into the season the rotation will be something no one expects?
It confuses me as to why they can’t just play together, or play seperately but still get minutes. It’s not like the nba works where the starters all play together and then the bench all plays together, McBride and Payne will both get minutes w the other 7 rotations players and each other aside from Payne and Brunson together id imagine.
The Knicks have 3 guys who can realistically play 2 thru 4 w Mikal, og, and hart, and divo can play a small ball 3 which he did sometimes w Brunson and McBride. I’m sure it will be much of the same and minutes will go around
I fully expect them to play together with Deuce being off ball
All this means is that Deuce is getting traded by the deadline
Brother with all due respect Thibs knows more than you. Whatever he decides to do with his rotation is likely the right move.
This was obvious the second he signed with us. He wasn’t gonna sign for us on the min to play 3rd string minutes lol
Minutes are already going to be reduced for him and possibly DDV. I feel a trade coming. You can only play so many players…
These dilemmas we’ve created at the PG position need to be created at the Center position. I’m not comfortable going a full season with just Mitch and Sims.
Let’s wait and see what actually happens. They aren’t locked into a particular game plan before the season begins. Thibs will play whichever lineup ends up performing best. If Deuce is better, he will play more. If Cam is better, he will play more. If they are better together, they will play together.
Classic Begley. Always “I think…” and not real substance.
well if josh hart is playing the 4 like normal it could work out fine
cam
mcbride
divo
hart
precious
Payne is only a 1 year deal. To get rid of Duece in favor of Payne is not the way unless they feel Tyler is ready to go. I know Thibs doesn’t like to play players that aren’t good on defense but this is how I’m looking at it. Maybe they feel if they surround him with solid defenders like they did Bogi his defense won’t look so bad. But Bogi is a SF/PF so it was easier to hide his flaws than a PG that isn’t good on defense. And even Bogi played okay defense at times when he was on the floor with good defenders…
They’re different players. I support the idea of a 9 or 10 man rotation in which they both get some minutes. Depending on matchups and performance the minutes can adjust.
hate to say it but it could also mean the brass is shopping deuce. he’s super serviceable and if you package him with precious and picks you could feasibly get a decent backup 5.
It boils down to whether Mcbride’s 3pt shooting last year was a mirage career year season or is his new ability. He was 45/41/86 last year. That is really fucking good. His 3pt% went up 11pts his ft% went up 20pts and his fg% went up 8pts. **All that on** ***almost double*** **the attempts.** Talk about a glow up.
If he is now a good point of attack defender who is a 40% 3point shooter but who probably needs to play next to a primary ball handler I promise all of you there is not need to worry about his playing time. Every team in the league finds minutes for that guy. (And would like to trade for him)
And quite frankly, if he reverts to being a sub 30% 3pt shooter who is a good point of attack defender but who needs to play next to a primary ball handler you won’t care about his playing time because other folks will out compete him for minutes.
I literally do not know what people are watching when it comes to McBride
Positives- he is a good defender and can score now, albeit off ball facilitated by someone else
Negatives – he can’t create fir himself or others and does almost nothing off the dribble
Essentially, he’s a 6’1 SG. Most people’s best memories of Deuce come in lineups where there’s another PG on the court with him, or in some cases, the SG has more of the ability to create and handle the ball than he does. I mean, perhaps off the bench if paired with DVC, you could put DVC on ball and keep Deuce I motion, or same with Brunson.
We now have about 4 guys who would be better options at the wing and then at guard the teams C b bb best player on the team is ahead of him, then DVC. And this is before talking about Cam and the rookies, both of which I’d give McBride some respect over but probably would develop into better options at PG. If you wanna keep Deuce fine but I don’t think he’s better than Payne at all and idk where people are getting that from. Playoff seasoned and started in the finals. Can actually dribble a basketball and create offense for himself. Nothing close to a pure PG either but you give Jalen a rest and you’re not sweating like you can’t create offense. Last yr the knicks were something like 20pts worse per 100 possessions with Jalen off the floor. Now granted, some of that is because we lose his scoring but a big part is there’s no body to organize the offense and Deuce does not solve fir this. Cam can.
Meanwhile, on a sidenote, our biggest hole is at C, where our starter plays no more than 60 games, and we haven’t found a suitable backup. And Deuce has become the thing holding us up in deals? What are we thinking? So for me, Cam BETTER be the guy who allows us to trade Deuce for a position of need. McBride isn’t that good
I literally do not know what people are watching when it comes to McBride
Positives- he is a good defender and can score now, albeit off ball facilitated by someone else
Negatives – he can’t create fir himself or others and does almost nothing off the dribble
Essentially, he’s a 6’1 SG. Most people’s best memories of Deuce come in lineups where there’s another PG on the court with him, or in some cases, the SG has more of the ability to create and handle the ball than he does. I mean, perhaps off the bench if paired with DVC, you could put DVC on ball and keep Deuce I motion, or same with Brunson.
We now have about 4 guys who would be better options at the wing and then at guard the teams C b bb best player on the team is ahead of him, then DVC. And this is before talking about Cam and the rookies, both of which I’d give McBride some respect over but probably would develop into better options at PG. If you wanna keep Deuce fine but I don’t think he’s better than Payne at all and idk where people are getting that from. Playoff seasoned and started in the finals. Can actually dribble a basketball and create offense for himself. Nothing close to a pure PG either but you give Jalen a rest and you’re not sweating like you can’t create offense. Last yr the knicks were something like 20pts worse per 100 possessions with Jalen off the floor. Now granted, some of that is because we lose his scoring but a big part is there’s no body to organize the offense and Deuce does not solve fir this. Cam can.
Meanwhile, on a sidenote, our biggest hole is at C, where our starter plays no more than 60 games, and we haven’t found a suitable backup. And Deuce has become the thing holding us up in deals? What are we thinking? So for me, Cam BETTER be the guy who allows us to trade Deuce for a position of need. McBride isn’t that good
I really hope Kolek isn’t thrown at the end of the bench. I know he still has a lot to prove in the big leagues, but this dude has an IQ well above most PGs in the league.
Man plans, God laughs.
What 🛎️🔚 is downvoting people.
He’s gonna play 15-20 mins and around 60 games or so that is his usual usage rate. Brunson is gonna play 33-35 mins at PG. McBride is still going to get his playing time bc he can play off the ball as well.
Cam can shoot. Deuce has gotta up his game. It’s a competition.