Discussing the spiraling downfall of the Chicago Bulls and who is to blame for their poor performance
#NBA #ChicagoBulls #ZachLavine #DeMarDeRozan #NikolaVucevic #BillyDonovan #NBABasketball #Basketball #NBADebates
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29 Comments
Changed the name of your channel nice move.
It's clear the nucleus of LaVine, DeRozan and Vuc isn't going to work. It's time to trade these guys while they're still high value players. Also, Bulls need to explore trading their young talent as well before their value falls off a cliff. Coby White's value might already have done that. I'm disappointed he wasn't moved this past summer. Regardless, the time to act is now.
Zach isn't worth a max contract and even though they might've lost him for nothing, in retrospect and based on how poorly the team has been playing this season it wouldn't have mattered. Locking in injury prone players who aren't leaders and aren't clutch is never a good idea.
Good analysis 👍🏼
We got the win last night against the Heat. Lets see where things go from here and hope there's nowhere else to go but up. They played more engaged on defense against the Heat last nights. Let see if they can be consistent for once tonight against the Hawks
Zo is true PG he controls flow of game….keep for going isol game, Zach,Demar..
You won yesterday at Miami playing good basketball at times…
Bulls fan here… the paaain
I think history is going to swing back around for GarPax, and because they have been so pilloried in the Bulls community, I realise how controversial that sounds; but, to understand, I think you have to go back to the history that you start running down at 2:42 in this video.
I think the problem with this video is that you just sound emotionally jaded about the broken promise, as opposed to making the very same case for the very same conclusion, which is correct.
The Bulls should not have EVER been built around Zach Lavine. He is the Jay Cutler of basketball. Undeniable talent, but he is NOT a leader.
The fundamental problem with this team is that the Bulls (and GarPax weren't totally exempt from this either) have been too sold on Zach Lavine, and have focused more on keeping him happy than developing the other assets they have.
The Bulls have a history with the San Antonio Spurs. They stand out as probably the fellow franchise that the Bulls' front office admires most, possibly only eclipsed or equalled by the Boston Celtics. They are Gregg Popovich fans. You'll remember that Fred Hoiberg was dismissed as being too player-friendly, and the team wanted some grit. So, they brought in a Popovich protege in Rick Boylen.
BOYLEN ONLY BECAME A LAUGHING STOCK WHEN ZACH LAVINE LED A REVOLT AGAINST HIM.
Never mind whether the Bulls have a history of bad decisions. Do the Spurs or Popovich have a history of generating laughable protégés, like we in our infinite wisdom have assessed Jim Boylen to be?
https://airalamo.com/posts/san-antonio-spurs-gregg-popovich-5-successful-coaching-tree-proteges
The Bulls PLAYER culture (not Boylen) was mocked by Ernie, Chuck, Shaq and Kenny for being unwilling to practice more in the face of a losing streak. That's what initially made the Bulls a laughing stock, not Boylen, for wanting to practice, but for a Zach-led player revolt against the idea that the team needed practice. Their unwillingness to practice as laughable to them.
https://youtu.be/CbsmQzRgoiM
Here we are … what… three?… four? … seasons later having yet another discussion about why it is that the team is losing, with Zach Lavine being the focal point.
I remember being shocked at how quiet Robin Lopez and Otto Porter, Jr, were when Zach identified himself as the player representative in the 'negotiation' with Boylen. I just thought that there was no way that vets like Porter and Lopez would submit to Zach's leadership, and they didn't. They stayed out of it, quietly, and quickly left the franchise.
Lauri Markkanen turns out to have had EXACTLY the skill set he was understood to have when he was drafted. He didn't have it, lose it while he was with the Bulls, and then magically re-discover it. He was that player the whole time. Same with Wendell Carter, and, mark my words, it'll be the same with Coby White.
Book it.
Look at what Golden State is going through with Wiseman, Philly and Orlando with Markelle Fultz. There are some players who truly are draft misses. Lauri and Wendell were not. We were just so busy trying to make sure that the Brinks truck was backed up to Zach's house on time, that we have squandered nearly half a decade of draft picks if you throw in the way that we aren't letting Patrick Williams feature more in the offense now.
Even Kris Dunn wasn't a miss. He suffered a horrific injury, a literal face plant, that ruined his career. Even after that he led the league in steals for a notable amount of time.
I'm NOT writing this to say that GarPax was the way to the promised land. I'm saying that the allure of Zach Lavine's high-flying playing style, especially in Chicago, in the wake of Michael Jordan, has Harold Miner vibes, and the idea that new management can come in and just unilaterally declare the team to be in 'win-now mode' is something you wouldn't (and technically they didn't) say out loud.
Even coming out of Minnesota, Zach wasn't like a Donovan Mitchell, who had already achieved some playoff success undeniably attributable to him. He was a 13th pick with promising athleticism. That's it.
It's as bad a reflection on Bulls fans to foolishly think that a management team can just unilaterally announce itself contenders as it was have been for the team to mortgage its entire future in pursuit of that goal. Even Golden State has an identifiable next generation of players that are developing. That 9-game win streak, around the 25th to 35th game of last season was the dopamine hit that sold the dream.
The issue is how BOTH GarPax AND AKME have botched the #7, #7, #7, and #4 picks in FOUR successive drafts, NOT because they didn't pick the right players, as the mutual successes of Lauri and Wendell is beginning to show, but because of the pre-occupation with making Zach happy, for fear of becoming some sort of jilted bride franchise.
I dare say that, if the Bulls had never even heard of Zach Lavine, and we were just looking at building around Lauri, Wendell, Coby, and Patrick Williams, our future would be brighter than it is now, and that's an indictment on AKME as not being the perceived vast improvement over GarPax that Bulls fans have been so quick to presume they are.
I genuinely think the problem has always been, especially terms of deprivation of touches, playing time, and developmental experiences for other, more highly-touted draft prospects, Zachary…Thomas… Lavine.
His ego seems immeasurable and destructive. I consider him a locker-room cancer.
We have never been good enough under his leadership alone (if you think about it) to say otherwise. It's him.
Zach should realize Demar is better and play off of him. All time greats always adjusted their game whenever a player of equal talent or better came onto their roster; like D Wade when LeBron arrived to Miami.
I will say what I said before. It is not time to blow up the team yet even if they miss play-in or play-off. I understand that the expecations are high but they should wait for Lonzo and see what happens, than make a decision.
100% agree about Zach. I never liked him and he takes poor shots all the time. He is a bad leader for the team.
Good stuff.
There's too much funky stuff for me to put it on billy.
I like Zach as a singular player and a little I know as a person and he is a hard worker. I just don't think he's got a deep enough basketball instincts to help lead a team.
I want him on another team for his sake and for the Bulls sake.
As Chicago fans, we have seen mediocrity and dysfunctional systemic problems up close for so long, we are masters of it. At a certain point, we get that strong sense where we know that the player is done here.
The crazy part is they have so much to trade. People are down on Vuc, but if other things are in place, Vuc is one of the more reliable big men in the league. He doesn't get blocked shots, but he has active hands in the lane and he rebounds when used correctly.
Zach is the essence of the kind of player that another coach thinks that they can unlock. When right, he can hit any shot at any time.
Caruso has such a strong defensive reputation, that you could get something decent for him because there would be a little bit of a battle.
Coby white suffers a bit from the team's inconsistencies. He's good for 13 points a game and five rebounds and a few assists.
I think people defended Lavine so much because he was young and athletic and people just assumed he was gonna take the next step. Its really embarrassing that he hasn't sharpened up his offensive repetiore and developed better shot selection. His flaws are the exact same since his initial drafting aside from his size.
Just shows why you build around superstars and not all-stars. Zach is the kind of guy you place next to a superstar, but isn’t one.
Holy shit when did Billy Donovan get so gray? 😅
Zach bamboozled the bulls. Man got his money, now we're stuck with a toxic locker room and dysfunctional unit.
Zach gets all the flack for not sharing the ball or playing defense, but Derozan has the exact same problem. He goes multiple possessions straight without ever passing the ball. It seems to me that Zach is frustrated at Demar taking all the shots when he's supposed to be the franchise player.
Actually I don't see Zach as even a #2 on a contending team.
Would Milwaukee do a straight up trade for Middleton, age aside? Boston gives up Brown? The Grizzlies aren't switching for Desmond Bane. If Kyrie actually focuses on basketball, he's better. Brandon Ingram, etc.
As happy as it made Bulls fans, Giannis never looked at this roster and thought he wanted in.
Well at least the Bulls got two wins again but they still are a team that needs serious changes in the offseason
I think most people that actually watch the games know Zach isn't a first option. He's a good number 2 as long as number 1 is a superstar like LeBron, Steph or Giannis and number 3 is a strong shooter to draw some attention to give him more open looks. The Bulls have leveraged their future for the haste of win now, and they grabbed best available opposed to constructing a legit roster.
Front office came and did the exact same thing the old front office always did for the last 20 years. Old overpaid big men past their prime
Lavine has a lot of upside. Seems like it’s just his mental that has to change the most.
Magic fucked the bulls in the ass like a Choo Choo train lmao and they are about to leap from them in the standings with Wendell and a pick that became the great FRANZCHISE Franz Wagner smh damn and thanks to the bulls being mediocre the Magic won't get the #1-4 pick from Chicago but 5 and beyond is just as good with the Magic FO drafting. Heres to 15 mores years of mediocrity Bulls fans, bum ass squad.
I can sit here with a straight face and tell u you CAN DEFINITELY build around lavine as a contender. If Phoenix can build around booker. If the Celtics can build around Tatum. Shit If the warriors can build around curry. Lavine is the same type of player as all of those players I just mentioned. A gunner who can create a shot from anywhere. And if u ask me lavine is better than 2 of those players or at least on the same level…..AY THE LEAST. The only thing u need to make it work is defenders, for derozan and the rest of the team to understand he is the NUMBER 2 option, and for the rig to be in Chicago's favor to win games and be in the playoff mix. Lavine is def not giving it his all this year because he's always wanted to play to his full potential on a contender. U can see he's frustrated out there. Especially when teammates purposefully move the ball away from him. All they have to do is feature him in the offense and there is not a soul who can guard that man. He scores too easily from anywhere. If he was getting spotlighted by the nba then ysll would be on his dicc and the team would ride that train because they were told to do so. His game is tailor made for this new nba and mfs don't think u can build around him?? The nba just got their piccs and chooses. If Chicago dont want him….send him to Milwaukee for a role player or some shit since thsts what you say he is. At least there he can be a real number 2 and he'd kill chicago for the next idk how many years. Its frustrating watching this team when they got all the talent they need to compete. This is about as dumb as starting Patrick Williams over Green cuz he "act like kawhi"🤦🏽♂️. Green has a bigger impact on the game ESPECIALLY from an energy aspect which chicago needs badly. But he sitting on the damn bench. All ima say is go bacc and watch full games not highlights of lavine single-handedly taking over games on that bad chicago team before derozan got there. Thst guy can definitely be built around. Derozan was supposed to compliment that. But he doesn't he's just taking food out of lavine mouth and iso-ing every chance he gets. Which is fine…..but on the other hand u have to run the offense thru lavine. How he moves without the ball, shoots, shoots off screens mid and 3, run the floor and passes is made for this modern nba. Thsts a crazy statement to make. In a league where everybody can do the same shit as everybody else….he's one of the few players that can stand apart. And mfs act like they forgot what happened in Toronto with derozan.
I have lost so many parlays on the Bulls this season smh it's like 2 different teams comparing it to last year.I don't know if Zach and DeMar hate playing together but that duo looks horrible this season so far
The bulls don’t have a legit number 1 championship level player on the roster.. really got 2 3rd options then the C who plays NO defense
Agree with most of your points with the exception of Vuc not being able to be an all star level player. When Vuc and DeMar do their 2 man game, Vuc looks fantastic. It's Lavine's iso ball that destroys everything because Vuc basically never touches the ball on those possessions.
Donovan has to set Zach in line and let him have the truth. LaVine is the 3rd best player on this team and needs to play like a number 3 option.
It would be nice to have a 4. Anything, someone to play that position. PW is either invisible, or he is dribbling off his foot. And he jogs down court like Scott Styles’ old buddy, Tyrus Thomas.
Seems like the same situation the Hawks had with Joe Johnson in 2010.